Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market

[chamb]

2 hours ago, wispiANt said:

I found a multi-carrier oDAS node at the corner of Bushwick Ave & Cedar St. You can see an upgraded Verizon macro deployment behind the node, and T-Mobile has a fully upgraded site only a block away. So, the only thing that makes sense is that this is an AT&T node with LTE+mmWave (or maybe C-Band).

Lots of time if you can get close to the pole, you will see a sticky label on the box that is low enough to read.

Most of the time it warns of RF exposure but also it may have a toll free number to call if there is an issue.

Sometimes there is a power company meter with the name of the user. I would be surprised if there was nothing there to help identify it.  Thinking further, if this is multi-Tenant oDAS, then maybe you might only see some name like Crown Castle or maybe even a department in the city government.   An app on your phone may show the carrier(s)

[wispiANt]

2 hours ago, chamb said:

Lots of time if you can get close to the pole, you will see a sticky label on the box that is low enough to read.

Most of the time it warns of RF exposure but also it may have a toll free number to call if there is an issue.

Sometimes there is a power company meter with the name of the user. I would be surprised if there was nothing there to help identify it.  Thinking further, if this is multi-Tenant oDAS, then maybe you might only see some name like Crown Castle or maybe even a department in the city government.   An app on your phone may show the carrier(s)

Yep, there is a label on the side of the box but it doesn't provide any useful info that the city doesn't already provide (Crown Castle Solutions is the franchisee). You can see my graphical interpretation of the city's dataset here.

[Paynefanbro]

If the small cell is Crown Castle I'd be surprised if it's AT&T since they seem to exclusively use Extenet and ZenFi in the outer boroughs with the exception of Staten Island where they have a bunch of super old Crown Castle NG small cells using the Wide-Area DAS cell numbering scheme.

I'll try to pass by with an AT&T phone to map it later this week.

[AirlineFlyer]

I wouldn’t be shocked if it’s Verizon, too. In my area they have multiple nodes on the same block as full macro sites with mmWave, in direct line of sight. 

[wispiANt]

Historically, T-Mobile has been the only carrier contracting with Crown Castle Solutions, at least in Brooklyn. I did a quick count of the ~35 nodes currently marked as "installed" and everything mapped appears to be T-Mobile. However, they have a macro sector pointed directly at this site and seem to continue relying on the older-style DAS nodes. Additionally, there's another Crown Castle Solutions node approved for construction just around the corner, well within range of their macro.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Verizon using a new vendor for their mmWave build, especially since the macro site directly behind this node lacks mmWave/CBRS deployment (limited to LTE plus C-Band). However, opting for a multi-carrier solution here seems unlikely unless another carrier has actually joined the build.

This node is equidistant (about five blocks) between two AT&T macro sites, and there are no oDAS nodes deployed nearby. Although I'm not currently mapping AT&T, based on CellMapper, it appears to be right on cell edge for both sites.

Regardless, it appears that whoever is deploying is planning for a significant build. There are eight Crown Castle Solutions nodes approved for construction in a 12-block by 2-block area.

[Paynefanbro]

Passed by that small cell and didn't pick up anything on T-Mobile or AT&T. Maybe it's offline or maybe it's Verizon.

[Paynefanbro]

Conover St in Red Hook has a row of 3 new Link5G sites deployed along it.  T-Mobile really needs a macro in that part of the neighborhood but I’d settle for them hopping on those Link5Gs for a boost in coverage. 

[AirlineFlyer]

17 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

Conover St in Red Hook has a row of 3 new Link5G sites deployed along it.  T-Mobile really needs a macro in that part of the neighborhood but I’d settle for them hopping on those Link5Gs for a boost in coverage. 

Do we know of a single "Linke5G" site that actually has carrier equipment installed?

[Paynefanbro]

11 minutes ago, AirlineFlyer said:

Do we know of a single "Linke5G" site that actually has carrier equipment installed?

Nope!

[Paynefanbro]

Came across another Crown Castle Solutions multi-tenant oDAS node in Brooklyn. Located at 40.7002286, -73.9612666. Nothing on T-Mobile or AT&T so I'm assuming these are all Verizon nodes that Crown Castle is anticipating another carrier will hop on down the line.

[Paynefanbro]

On 6/11/2024 at 3:01 PM, Paynefanbro said:

Conover St in Red Hook has a row of 3 new Link5G sites deployed along it.  T-Mobile really needs a macro in that part of the neighborhood but I’d settle for them hopping on those Link5Gs for a boost in coverage. 

Was in Red Hook again and I swear there are more Link5G sites as there are Verizon, T-Mobile, and AT&T small cells combined in the entire neighborhood. It seemed like every other street I turned down had one installed. Hopefully carriers will start hopping on them soon. Seems like a lot of effort to go through for no one to use them. 

— — — — —

T-Mobile converted the Sprint site on top of NYU Langone Brooklyn in Sunset Park. I first mapped one sector of it back in November 2023 but I thought it was a small cell so I never pinned it but I ran into another sector today which caught me off guard. I'm unable to find a permit for the conversion so it's definitely a surprise. There's another T-Mobile site 1 block away that T-Mobile initially installed back in 2019 so I'm kinda surprised they're keeping both considering the Sprint conversion is on a much taller building and could potentially provide much better coverage to the entire area. 

— — — — — 

On 5/17/2024 at 4:58 PM, Paynefanbro said:

eNB 41188 is decommissioned but as far as I can tell the site at 200 West 55th is not built yet.

Old permit for this new install expired but a new one was recently issued. It's gonna be similar to the site at 360 Forman St in Brooklyn Heights. Permit calls for only 3 antennas to be installed so I'm assuming it gonna be Band 2/41/66 and n25/41 only which is a bit of a downgrade from the now decommissioned full build that was on 871 7th Ave but in it's current state the nearest macro is a few blocks away and a small cell at Broadway and 55th is doing a lot of heavy lifting in the area so anything helps.

 

[Paynefanbro]

On 5/17/2024 at 4:58 PM, Paynefanbro said:

On 5/13/2024 at 12:06 PM, Paynefanbro said:

Just came across a permit for a new T-Mobile site at 61 Jackson St in Manhattan. It's replacing eNB 41150 which is a fully upgraded two sector site covering the FDR.

This site is built but not live. No mmWave or LAA but there is any empty fourth mount, probably for C-band or mmWave at some point down the line. eNB 41150 is still live.

Site is live now, gNB 1088943. eNB 41150 is still live though despite the fact that it's supposed to be decommissioned. I'm also starting to think eNB 41150 is only broadcasting 100MHz n41. It's the only site I've encountered where I haven't been able to map the 311/312 cells on it. Every other site around it, including gNB 1088943, I have no problem mapping the second carrier.

 

[wispiANt]

Lots of new multi-carrier nodes popping up in Bushwick.

Crown Castle Fiber node at Ridgewood & Palmetto:

 

Crown Castle Solutions node at Irving & Jefferson:

 

Crown Castle Solutions node at Wilson & Noll:

 

[AirlineFlyer]

https://gothamist.com/news/nycs-massive-link5g-towers-arent-actually-providing-5g-yet

And there it is. A grand total of TWO out of ~200 "Link5G" towers actually have any carrier equipment in them, and those are only a test. 

Quote

Just two of the nearly 200 Link5G towers installed by tech firm CityBridge since 2022 have been fitted with 5G equipment, company officials said. Delayed installations and cooling enthusiasm around 5G technology have discouraged carriers like Verizon from using the towers to build out their networks, experts say. The firm only has an agreement with a single telecommunications carrier to deliver high-speed internet, stymieing its efforts to boost mobile connectivity citywide.

Link to map of the Link5G towers

[Paynefanbro]

1 hour ago, AirlineFlyer said:

https://gothamist.com/news/nycs-massive-link5g-towers-arent-actually-providing-5g-yet

And there it is. A grand total of TWO out of ~200 "Link5G" towers actually have any carrier equipment in them, and those are only a test. 

Link to map of the Link5G towers

Unfortunately the map has been out of date for a while. A number of them marked proposed are installed and live in my testing. I accidentally posted the same article in another thread.

Sucks that no carrier is confirming that they're going to use them and that they won't reveal the location of those two sites. Why all the secrecy?

[AirlineFlyer]

7 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

Unfortunately the map has been out of date for a while. A number of them marked proposed are installed and live in my testing. I accidentally posted the same article in another thread.

Sucks that no carrier is confirming that they're going to use them and that they won't reveal the location of those two sites. Why all the secrecy?

I assume that if there is only one carrier testing two sites, the agreement probably includes some sort of NDA that doesn't allow them to reveal any info.

[Wfmets45]

I live in Borough Park near 18th ave and 61st street. Anyone know if T Mobile decommissioned a tower around this area about a year ago?

I went from having T Mobile Home Internet to nearly zero service. I had to return the modem and switch back to Optimum. 

My service is also horrible out here. Calls will drop and very slow data. At least in my apartment I use T Mobile Wifi calling and the reason I don’t leave T Mobile is because I’m grandfathered on Sprint Unlimited Plus and I love my benefits and perks, but I wish T Mobile would improve the service in my block.

[Paynefanbro]

1 hour ago, Wfmets45 said:

I live in Borough Park near 18th ave and 61st street. Anyone know if T Mobile decommissioned a tower around this area about a year ago?

I went from having T Mobile Home Internet to nearly zero service. I had to return the modem and switch back to Optimum. 

My service is also horrible out here. Calls will drop and very slow data. At least in my apartment I use T Mobile Wifi calling and the reason I don’t leave T Mobile is because I’m grandfathered on Sprint Unlimited Plus and I love my benefits and perks, but I wish T Mobile would improve the service in my block.

No decommissioned sites that I can find. It looks like that intersection is served by two different sites and is right at the edge of cell for both. The only thing I can think of that would cause such a drastic change in coverage for you is if T-Mobile changed where their sectors are placed but I'm not seeing any permit for that on any of the nearby sites. 

[Wfmets45]

14 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

No decommissioned sites that I can find. It looks like that intersection is served by two different sites and is right at the edge of cell for both. The only thing I can think of that would cause such a drastic change in coverage for you is if T-Mobile changed where their sectors are placed but I'm not seeing any permit for that on any of the nearby sites. 

I called T Mobile the same day I came home from work and started encountering issues. They told me one site was down for maintenance with no estimated date of completion. This was back on March 15, 2023. I contacted revik2 through Reddit and told me it was tower ID BQ04933A. Can you see if this tower was decommissioned or still operational?

[Paynefanbro]

Verizon site at Woodbury Commons finally got C-band. I'm seeing upwards of 600Mbps there, a massive improvement over the <1Mbps I used to see. LTE is now at 10-20Mbps which is significantly better than before where speed tests would often fail.

My only complaint is that C-band is super inconsistent. Not sure if it's a software issue but sometimes I'm connected to it and get the 600Mbps speeds previously mentioned and other times I connect and only see 15Mbps. Seems like whatever load balancing the network is trying to do is still shoving a ton of people to LTE, even in conditions where I have a strong C-band signal. 

— — — — —

10 hours ago, Wfmets45 said:

I called T Mobile the same day I came home from work and started encountering issues. They told me one site was down for maintenance with no estimated date of completion. This was back on March 15, 2023. I contacted revik2 through Reddit and told me it was tower ID BQ04933A. Can you see if this tower was decommissioned or still operational?

You're absolutely right. The site on top of Bais Sarah Hall at 6101 16th Ave got decommissioned. Sad that they haven't installed a new site to fill in that coverage gap. 

Quote

Work Permit: B00811179-I1-AN

Approved Date: 03/13/2023 12:00:00 AM

Issued Date: 03/14/2023 12:00:00 AM

Expired Date: 01/10/2024 12:00:00 AM

Job Description:

T-Mobile: Decommission of existing telecommunication site on the roof. Removal of antenna sectors, GPS antenna and platform steel dunnage with related equipment from the roof and related conduits as per plans. No change in use, egress or occupancy.

— — — — —

In other news a carrier reached out to the board of my grandmother's building in Brooklyn about installing antennas on top of it so she called me today because she knows I map cell towers and she said a lot of people in her building, especially the folks on the upper floors, are worried about the health effects lol.

I asked her if she knew what carrier it would be but she said she doesn't know. A quick glance at Cellmapper tells me it's either Dish or AT&T since Verizon and T-Mobile both have sites within a two block radius of her building but AT&T barely builds new sites so I'm leaning Dish. They're asking for a 25-year lease with an option to renegotiate the lease after 10-years. The board of her co-op said that if they do it, maintenance fees will go down since they'll be offset by the rent that the carrier would be paying them. She said she already voted in favor of it but she thinks that a lot of the older people in her building are against it.

[wispiANt]

20 hours ago, Wfmets45 said:

I called T Mobile the same day I came home from work and started encountering issues. They told me one site was down for maintenance with no estimated date of completion. This was back on March 15, 2023. I contacted revik2 through Reddit and told me it was tower ID BQ04933A. Can you see if this tower was decommissioned or still operational?

Yep, you can see the site was taken down between Aug 2022 and Apr 2023.

[Paynefanbro]

Looks like there's a slightly taller building going up next door to where the decommissioned site used to be.

Taking a look at StreetView, T-Mobile likely decommissioned the site because the east facing sector would blocked by the new building. If I had to guess, T-Mobile has already agreed to move to the roof of the new building and is just waiting for it to be completed to install the site there. What they should've done is just rearrange the sectors in the meantime but it seems like T-Mobile just bit the bullet and decommed the tower in the short term.

— — — — —

A permit was issued for a Sprint conversion at 150 Prospect Park West, finally filling in what is T-Mobile's largest coverage gap in Park Slope. Verizon is collocated on that building and AT&T has placed small cells along Prospect Park West to fill in coverage there while T-Mobile struggled using two sites, one at Grand Army Plaza at the far north and another at Bartel Pritchard Square to the far south.

Quote

T-Mobile - Removal of existing antennas, RRU's & equipment cabinets; installation of new antennas, RRU's, equipment cabinets and cables (NY52XC442) as per plans. All work is in compliance with TPPN 5/98 & BB 11/21. No change to use, egress, or occupancy.

 

[Wfmets45]

21 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Verizon site at Woodbury Commons finally got C-band. I'm seeing upwards of 600Mbps there, a massive improvement over the <1Mbps I used to see. LTE is now at 10-20Mbps which is significantly better than before where speed tests would often fail.

My only complaint is that C-band is super inconsistent. Not sure if it's a software issue but sometimes I'm connected to it and get the 600Mbps speeds previously mentioned and other times I connect and only see 15Mbps. Seems like whatever load balancing the network is trying to do is still shoving a ton of people to LTE, even in conditions where I have a strong C-band signal. 

— — — — —

You're absolutely right. The site on top of Bais Sarah Hall at 6101 16th Ave got decommissioned. Sad that they haven't installed a new site to fill in that coverage gap. 

— — — — —

In other news a carrier reached out to the board of my grandmother's building in Brooklyn about installing antennas on top of it so she called me today because she knows I map cell towers and she said a lot of people in her building, especially the folks on the upper floors, are worried about the health effects lol.

I asked her if she knew what carrier it would be but she said she doesn't know. A quick glance at Cellmapper tells me it's either Dish or AT&T since Verizon and T-Mobile both have sites within a two block radius of her building but AT&T barely builds new sites so I'm leaning Dish. They're asking for a 25-year lease with an option to renegotiate the lease after 10-years. The board of her co-op said that if they do it, maintenance fees will go down since they'll be offset by the rent that the carrier would be paying them. She said she already voted in favor of it but she thinks that a lot of the older people in her building are against it.

Yes, that is where the site used to be. All the antennas were removed. I hope they add a new site soon. Have any permits been submitted for a new site?

[Paynefanbro]

2 hours ago, Wfmets45 said:

Yes, that is where the site used to be. All the antennas were removed. I hope they add a new site soon. Have any permits been submitted for a new site?

Not yet. We probably won't see one submitted until construction on the new building is substantially complete. 

[AirlineFlyer]

On 7/11/2024 at 9:01 AM, AirlineFlyer said:

https://gothamist.com/news/nycs-massive-link5g-towers-arent-actually-providing-5g-yet

And there it is. A grand total of TWO out of ~200 "Link5G" towers actually have any carrier equipment in them, and those are only a test. 

Link to map of the Link5G towers

Well well, looks like we found one of the two Link5G towers that might actually have 5G. Notice anything different? This one has the same signal bars icon that the pole mounted 5G oDAS units have. It’s in Chinatown at East Broadway and Forsyth St. It’s impossible to tell what carrier it is, though.