Network Vision/LTE - Jacksonville Market (including Gainesville/St. Augustine/Ocala)

[nexgencpu]

Why does tmobiles band 12 go futher than GSM/HSPA? I'll have no service on GSM/HSPA and 119-125dbm on band 12. I think it has something to do with volte.

 

Isn't band 12 700Mhz, vs 1700 for HSPA?

[Fraydog]

Why does tmobiles band 12 go futher than GSM/HSPA? I'll have no service on GSM/HSPA and 119-125dbm on band 12. I think it has something to do with volte.

700 MHz travels better even with LTE's fragile air interface. I'm still in 1900 MHz LTE/GSM land here as part of my trial of the $30 TMo SIM and even the 1900 LTE does a better job here than I thought it would. It travels, by my guess, 90% of the distance GSM 1900 travels.

[Ascertion]

700 MHz travels better even with LTE's fragile air interface. I'm still in 1900 MHz LTE/GSM land here as part of my trial of the $30 TMo SIM and even the 1900 LTE does a better job here than I thought it would. It travels, by my guess, 90% of the distance GSM 1900 travels.

I wish Sprints LTE 800 traveled as far as their 1900 EvDo. Do you know why EvDo travels so much further from the same sites?

 

Sent from my M8

[Terrell352]

I wish Sprints LTE 800 traveled as far as their 1900 EvDo. Do you know why EvDo travels so much further from the same sites?

 

Sent from my M8

Where I live 800 travels farther than 1900 but 700 goes even further. Especially band 12 700a.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Terrell352]

Isn't band 12 700Mhz, vs 1700 for HSPA?

2100 for downlink and 1700 for uplink. I'm saying T-Mobile will lose 3g before it loses lte. But Verizon and Sprint will lose LTE and still have decent voice or even evdo coverage. Is CDMA that much better than GSM?

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Camcroz]

Where I live 800 travels farther than 1900 but 700 goes even further. Especially band 12 700a.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Part of this could that the device recognizes that lte is the only signal availible. That happens on my phone. I connect to a -120 dbm clearwire signal where sprints coverage is bad but if clearwire signal gets too low then i get no signal since there is no 3g network available . I think since the phone knows there is no other network to connect to it just holds onto the week lte signal.

 

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

[Terrell352]

Part of this could that the device recognizes that lte is the only signal availible. That happens on my phone. I connect to a -120 dbm clearwire signal where sprints coverage is bad but if clearwire signal gets too low then i get no signal since there is no 3g network available . I think since the phone knows there is no other network to connect to it just holds onto the week lte signal.

 

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This makes complete sense. If I go to LTE only mode on any device it holds on to LTE for dear life even at 130dbm. This makes T-Mobile look superior to Sprint even though it's not from a overall coverage stand point. The average customer would be quick to say T-Mobile has more LTE coverage because of this.

 

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[Camcroz]

This makes complete sense. If I go to LTE only mode on any device it holds on to LTE for dear life even at 130dbm. This makes T-Mobile look superior to Sprint even though it's not from a overall coverage stand point. The average customer would be quick to say T-Mobile has more LTE coverage because of this.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Ya i have a tmobile tablet and i go lots of places where they dont have a hspa network only edge and lte and and since the tablet isnt compatible with edge it will hold onto lte until about -125 to -130 dbm. The bright side is that i hardly lose lte that way but its not really real signal either cuz its pretty much unusable

 

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[Terrell352]

Ya i have a tmobile tablet and i go lots of places where they dont have a hspa network only edge and since the tablet isnt compatible with edge it will hold onto lte until about -125 to -130 dbm. The bright side is that i hardly lose lte that way but its not really real signal either cuz its pretty much unusable

 

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From my experience T-Mobile is usable on band 4 even at 130 dbm. It's happened on a few occasions. I couldn't believe I could still get 4-6mbps on -130dbm and 1.6 snr.

 

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[Fraydog]

EV-DO is still, for all it's flaws, pretty robust as far as air interfaces go. That's a big part of why Sprint picked CDMA over GSM. They had a GSM network in DC and sold it to Omnipoint. For PCS, CDMA served Sprint well. The problem is people compare CDMA to UMTS which is GSM core and CDMA-based air interface. People associate GSM with being superior because of UMTS, but there's a good chance UMTS doesn't work as well without the work done on CDMA. UMTS was just a later version of CDMA2000 that went back and added things like wider channels, simultaneous voice and data, SIM cards, and global compatibility.

[Camcroz]

From my experience T-Mobile is usuable on band 4 even at 130 dbm. It's happened on a few occasions. I couldn't believe I could still get 4-6mbps on -130dbm and 1.6 snr.

 

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Ya i dont know how but tmobile always has amazing snr. Even on towers where sprint and tmobile are co-located tmobile almost always blows sprints snr out of the water. And ya for me it's really hit or miss to use a 130 dbm signal. Sometimes it works no prob but other times i misewell have no connection

 

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[nexgencpu]

I wish Sprints LTE 800 traveled as far as their 1900 EvDo. Do you know why EvDo travels so much further from the same sites?

Sent from my M8

Here in NYC 800LTE and 1900 3G are on par, I'd say with in 2dBm

[Terrell352]

Ya i dont know how but tmobile always has amazing snr. Even on towers where sprint and tmobile are co-located tmobile almost always blows sprints snr out of the water. And ya for me it's really hit or miss to use a 130 dbm signal. Sometimes it works no prob but other times i misewell have no connection

 

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At my house tmobile snr is constantly in the 20's. Sprint is 13-25 varies alot more.

 

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[EvanA]

Ya i dont know how but tmobile always has amazing snr. Even on towers where sprint and tmobile are co-located tmobile almost always blows sprints snr out of the water. And ya for me it's really hit or miss to use a 130 dbm signal. Sometimes it works no prob but other times i misewell have no connection

 

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At my house tmobile snr is constantly in the 20's. Sprint is 13-25 varies alot more.

 

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4x2MIMO and wider LTE channels on AWS does that.

 

Sprint runs 2x2 on band 25 and also since it's only a 5x5MHz carrier it is more susceptible to interference.

 

Only band 41 has higher order MIMO and beamforming.

[tybo31316]

I agree that T-Mobile devices holds on the signals for dear life. I bought my son a Samsung Galaxy Core Prime on MetroPCS. His device on AWS lte holds signal better than Sprints band 26. I've seen his phone sit at -130db without dropping.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6

[Ascertion]

I agree that T-Mobile devices holds on the signals for dear life. I bought my son a Samsung Galaxy Core Prime on MetroPCS. His device on AWS lte holds signal better than Sprints band 26. I've seen his phone sit at -130db without dropping.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6

4x2 MIMO and wider channels allows the noise to be drown out into sub channels, I believe. So that's why a wide LTe channel like T-Mobile's 20MHz is still usable at those levels.

 

Sent from my M8

[S4GRU]

Why does tmobiles band 12 go futher than GSM/HSPA? I'll have no service on GSM/HSPA and 119-125dbm on band 12. I think it has something to do with volte.

Nothing to do with VoLTE. WCDMA (HSPA/HSPA+) only slightly will travel further than LTE when deployed on the same Band. WCDMA needs a robust signal, just like LTE. So it is no surprise whatsoever that B12 LTE (700) travels further than Band 4 WCDMA (AWS). Especially considering Tmo really cranks up the transmit power on their LTE radios.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

[Terrell352]

Nothing to do with VoLTE. WCDMA (HSPA/HSPA+) only slightly will travel further than LTE when deployed on the same Band. WCDMA needs a robust signal, just like LTE. So it is no surprise whatsoever that B12 LTE (700) travels further than Band 4 WCDMA (AWS). Especially considering Tmo really cranks up the transmit power on their LTE radios.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

No I'm saying 700 is traveling further than hspa+/GSM. I will have 0 signal on 2G and 3G but still have a faint 700 signal.

 

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[S4GRU]

No I'm saying 700 is traveling further than hspa+/GSM. I will have 0 signal on 2G and 3G but still have a faint 700 signal.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Re-read what I said. I explained why the 700 LTE is travelling farther than the AWS WCDMA. WCDMA and HSPA/HSPA+ are the same thing.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

[Terrell352]

Re-read what I said. I explained why the 700 LTE is travelling farther than the AWS WCDMA. WCDMA and HSPA/HSPA+ are the same thing.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

Ah I read that way to fast. I see the error.

 

 

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[Ascertion]

Re-read what I said. I explained why the 700 LTE is travelling farther than the AWS WCDMA. WCDMA and HSPA/HSPA+ are the same thing.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

I believe at one point AJ said HSPA+ is the most stable technology, if all technologies were on the same frequency, broadcasted on the same site. Any ideas how to find out more on this? What makes LTE more fragile?

 

Sent from my M8

[EvanA]

I believe at one point AJ said HSPA+ is the most stable technology, if all technologies were on the same frequency, broadcasted on the same site. Any ideas how to find out more on this? What makes LTE more fragile?

 

Sent from my M8

LTE is more fragile by design. It trades the larger coverage area for higher order modulation and thus higher throughput.

[S4GRU]

I believe at one point AJ said HSPA+ is the most stable technology, if all technologies were on the same frequency, broadcasted on the same site. Any ideas how to find out more on this? What makes LTE more fragile?

 

Sent from my M8

I'm not sure what stable means in the instance. WCDMA, like all high throughput wireless technologies, requires a robust signal. It's trying to transfer millions of bits of data through the air.

 

I can tell you, at best, WCDMA has a 10% signal propagation advantage over LTE when all other things are equal, like band and transmission power. As the signal degrades, performance degrades. In places where WCDMA uses a lower QAM, you may be able to use WCDMA better at the edge of service than LTE, albeit at severely reduced performance. But where WCDMA and LTE are deployed using the same QAM, you can expect similar signal and usability.

 

WCDMA acts much more like LTE than EVDO.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

[tybo31316]

4x2 MIMO and wider channels allows the noise to be drown out into sub channels, I believe. So that's why a wide LTe channel like T-Mobile's 20MHz is still usable at those levels.

 

Sent from my M8

If carriers had 40mhz of 700mhz spectrum deployed with 4x4 MIMO their coverage would be amazing. As far as having wider channels that's definitely true because when I'm connected to 88ers the signal strength is very close to band 25 LTE.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6

[EvanA]

If carriers had 40mhz of 700mhz spectrum deployed with 4x4 MIMO their coverage would be amazing. As far as having wider channels that's definitely true because when I'm connected to 88ers the signal strength is very close to band 25 LTE.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6

4x4MIMO is not possible on 700 because there is not enough spatial diversity on the handset side.