600 MHz auction results posted and transition schedule

[Arysyn]

Regarding some of the comments about the fiber internet, I was at a local Menards store a few months ago, and I saw a "Smart" toilet there, though I'm not sure if it was internet connected or not. Eventually though perhaps there will be one. Here is the model I saw there, the "Ove" smart toilet :

http://www.menards.com/main/bath/toilets/bidets/smart-toilet/bath/toilets/bidets/smart-toilet/p-1444450443333.htm

[centermedic]

So being like China is going to be the cure to our mobile ills? 

I think what AJ is advocating is a system similar to what spawned AT&T. If you think about it it was a brilliant idea then and it is a brilliant idea now. As a former bell employee I can tell you that the old bell system is robust and reliable because of government control.

[jeffcarp]

I think what AJ is advocating is a system similar to what spawned AT&T. If you think about it it was a brilliant idea then and it is a brilliant idea now. As a former bell employee I can tell you that the old bell system is robust and reliable because of government control.

The problem with that is there are very few if any examples of that kind of success and competence in the modern era. FAA systems? Nope. The IRS' computer systems? Nope. Management of freeway infrastructure? Nope. Can't think of a single govt-run program on a massive scale that demonstrates any level of technological competence let alone superiority.

[Arysyn]

The problem with that is there are very few if any examples of that kind of success and competence in the modern era. FAA systems? Nope. The IRS' computer systems? Nope. Management of freeway infrastructure? Nope. Can't think of a single govt-run program on a massive scale that demonstrates any level of technological competence let alone superiority.

 

I've heard people saying about how bad the government is at running things more times than I can count. Generally this is quite true, but rarely do I hear people give a reason why, other than conspiracy theorists claiming its the "Illuminati" or other very horrible claims, though no one in the mainstream of society seems to have an idea about it.

 

Even groups I follow that I believe to have the best solutions to things, groups like the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project don't actually name the problem. Yet, it couldn't possibly be more clear as what the problem is, which is society's lack of control over its government and its media. Instead of society running the government and the media, it is the government and the media running society. Despite my being 70% progressive and 30% conservative, I don't promote the government being the answer to things, nor do I blame the corporations (most of the time). Any problem that comes from corporations generally is society's fault for giving them that power and society's fault for losing its control over government, simple as that.

 

Society needs to take control over these and stop giving them power over there lives. This means there must be a drastic change to the key means of the breakdown from  society's power, which is in the way the monetary system works. Until a resource-based economy can be viable, which there will need to be a slow process towards that before it could become a reality, society needs to take control over there money. Stop buying non-essential things until those in control begin to cater more to bring back that business. If society were to truly work as a group, rather than the false "grouping" public schooling teaches that just bring in disaster as students rarely are taught to think for themselves but rather "group think', they need to learn to think individually then to collect as a group not of a bunch of socially-manipulated people, but as strongly-individualized people that would make a real group strong. They then could have the power to make the necessary changes to the monetary system, until a resource-based economy were possible.

 

At that point, if society could take over its government to make it a fairer political system, I believe then certain government-run systems would work a lot better than they now can do. Still, that doesn't mean to eliminate corporations, which should lead certain functions where government just shouldn't be in control of, such as education and product development.

[centermedic]

The problem with that is there are very few if any examples of that kind of success and competence in the modern era. FAA systems? Nope. The IRS' computer systems? Nope. Management of freeway infrastructure? Nope. Can't think of a single govt-run program on a massive scale that demonstrates any level of technological competence let alone superiority.

Those examples do not address the model that I believe AJ is advocating. You only need to look at the original Bell telephone model as an example of a government funded mandate and monopoly in order to build out a piece of critical infrastructure.

[Fraydog]

In reality, social democracy is based on compromise, and corporations and government work together or at the least counteract the other so society benefits. Too much of the discussion in these forums is based on extreme points of view and there isn't a real middle ground. I'm all for big government when it works. That said, the cases where it doesn't need to be scrutinized. 

[red_dog007]

Government CAN do things right.  Look at EPB.  A city owned utility company beat Google to 1Gbps and charge the same price for it! And it is across the ENTIRE city.  Not just places that are deemed profitable because enough residence sign up for service.  EPB makes lots of money off of it, they have used the earnings to subsidize the electrical rates for four years through fees.  EPB Fiber is a separate company from EPB, and Fiber pays EPB fees.  

 

Then look at TVA.  It has ups and downs like all companies and if you look at its numbers there really isn't anything different than a public company.  Shoot, they even got rid of pensions in 2014 because the idea wasn't working. 

 

But companies like TVA and EPB run like private companies, whose owners happen to be government.  Similar to like how government 401k and pension plans invest in public sector, so those companies are technically government owned to X percent. Just TVA and EPB have unique challenges and duties vs a private company or a publicly traded company.

 

If you look at all the big fiber expansion, it is small municipal governments, states and small business that are paving the way.  Not AT&T, not Comcast, not Verizon, etc. Those guys are too big to care.  Those guys stopped my local government ISP from expanding to an area that doesn't have ANY internet service.  

 

But I don't think they are the answer.  I think they are the counteraction to the big corporations.  Like Fraydog said, things need to be balanced out.  Right now, Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, Charter, TWC, etc have too much power that needs to be counteracted.  This is one of the many reasons why government exists.  It isn't here to take over the duty, but they are here to prevent Comcast from being Comcast and they are doing a horrible job at it.

 

 

But on this political note, which this thread will self implode if it doesn't end, lol,

 

I myself think 600MHz auction is going to fail horribly.  And if anyone actually wins anything, the transition period isn't going to be worth the cost to these cellular providers.  I think the government is moving a bit too hastily here. ATSC 3.0 repacking should be happening first starting nowish for the next 4~6 years.  Then whatever free spectrum is left afterwards gets auctioned off.  Then those winnings go towards repaying the broadcasters for the ATSC 3.0 transition, a tuner rebate program, and paying those stations that decided to go off air completely.

[bucdenny]

 

 

Not bad pricing at all for 1Gbps $69.99.  Beats my Cox HSI pricing.  https://epb.com/home-store/internet

[Arysyn]

I definitely agree with both Fraydog and red_dog here about how there are good/bad with both government and corporations and how they both have the ability and inability to work.

 

The key here is to take away the main issues that cause them not to work, so that they are focused to work on the common good as has been shown in their examples.

 

My main idea is to take away anything that retricts the advancements of technology, along with the removal of falsely instilled scarcity that just drives up profits and hurts consumers.

[mozamcrew]

Government monopolies and regulated monopolies generally are good at providing a uniform level of service at a reasonable initial cost, since you only build the network once and capture all users. Their trouble is that once they establish that monopoly position, they tend to become less and less competitive over time because they don't have to compete in a marketplace. This means higher costs and fewer choices for customers. 

Governments, and the things they control, operate in a political/judicial world, where perceived correctness is valued much higher than choice and cost. This is great when you are trying a man for murder, when the consequences of failure are very high, but sometimes you'd rather have more choices and lower cost and just suffer the occasional error. Hence the old ATT limiting customers the single model of phone they supplied. Monopolies just don't have to care much about customer choice and cost, thus what you get is a slow creep of prices, beyond what you would see even in limited competition, and slowness to adopt to changes in what customers might want from the service.. I mean where else will the customer go, especially if the monopoly is geographically expansive.

Now, given the choice between a single large teleco monopoly, like the old Qwest, and much smaller local government or coop monopoly, I'd take the smaller one ten times out of ten, simply because you will get better service and it will be easier to leave their service territory.

[red_dog007]

​

​This is the kind of stuff that these big players get away with all the time with the help of government.  We can't even totally trust the government because they are so buddy buddy with the big ISPs.   

​

​https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ATT-Wants-100-Million-From-California-Taxpayers-For-Aging-DSL-136565

​

​https://www.reddit.com/r/ATT/comments/4caqg5/effective_52316_att_will_start_enforcing_data_caps/

​

​http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/union-slams-verizon-not-delivering-high-speed-internet-article-1.2394927

​

​http://www.fiercetelecom.com/story/comcast-att-thwart-municipal-broadband-expansion-effort-tennessee/2016-03-16

[smooth25]

Not bad pricing at all for 1Gbps $69.99. Beats my Cox HSI pricing. https://epb.com/home-store/internet

Wow. In Puerto Rico we had two services which kept prices somewhat competitive. One purchased the other a year ago leaving one. Here $69.99 gets you 40/4 Mbps and that's the second cheapest option. The first is 10/1 Mbps and that's $49.99.

 

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

[avb]

And it still gets bad during rush hour. Not as bad as back when it was six lanes only, but it's still bad. People in Katy may as well be living in East San Antonio.

Houston would be better off getting rid of their HOV lanes and placing a fast Metro rail line in its place for commuters in The Woodlands, Clear Lake, Sugar Land and the Katy area. Or maybe stricter and harder driving tests for everyone since it seems like any idiot is allowed to drive now and clog up traffic.

Tell me about it. I drive on 290. Houston needs a real mass transit system.

[laqn1283]

I read Softbank's financial statements and as of end of 2015 they have 23 billion in cash and cash equivalents.  I just wonder if this number includes cash of subsidiaries or just companies that Softbank owns 100%.  If it is the latter, that is a lot of cash sitting around.  Maybe auction bidding?

[Arysyn]

Does anyone here know what is happening with the 600 MHz auction?

 

I thought it was suppose to have occurred recently, but I haven't heard any results yet.

[WiWavelength]

Does anyone here know what is happening with the 600 MHz auction?

 

I thought it was suppose to have occurred recently, but I haven't heard any results yet.

 

http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/default.htm?job=auctions_home

 

AJ

[clbowens]

Does anyone here know what is happening with the 600 MHz auction?

 

I thought it was suppose to have occurred recently, but I haven't heard any results yet.

It has started but I've read it can go on for months.

[Arysyn]

http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/default.htm?job=auctions_home

 

AJ

Thank you for that link, AJ.

 

It has started but I've read it can go on for months.

I should have figured. This auction certainly is more complicated/complex than the other auctions. I really hate how this all is, I really do. I think it would be so much better to just gather 'round everyone involved and work out what is needed, what could be traded, bought, etc., then have it all done within a day. Simple. Yet as things are, it'll be months of debate, cheating, arguing, lawsuits, and so on. The only party present at the auctions likely that will remain silent and relatively peaceful, will be that silly John Legere doll.

[danlodish345]

Thank you for that link, AJ.

 

I should have figured. This auction certainly is more complicated/complex than the other auctions. I really hate how this all is, I really do. I think it would be so much better to just gather 'round everyone involved and work out what is needed, what could be traded, bought, etc., then have it all done within a day. Simple. Yet as things are, it'll be months of debate, cheating, arguing, lawsuits, and so on. The only party present at the auctions likely that will remain silent and relatively peaceful, will be that silly John Legere doll.

how long will it last for ? wont softbank get involved to and give the spectrum to sprint....

[Arysyn]

how long will it last for ? wont softbank get involved to and give the spectrum to sprint....

 

Well, clbowens mentioned it could go on for months, from what they heard. I wouldn't doubt that the auction might take a long time from all the potential issues. Already, some groups are complaining about T-Mobile's proposed timeline in their work implementing the spectrum they'd get for it and the timeline in equipment setup, I've heard.

 

​Other problems are possible, as this auction involves more than most auctions do. I'm not a supporter of these auctions based on how I think they are unfair and just are not the best way of distributing spectrum to the wireless carriers. Added to this auction though, are broadcasters, which from my understanding are being given a choice whether or not or how much spectrum to give in this auction, which is going to make for some major differences by market. I definitely do not like this, and would rather the FCC reign in spectrum to fairly redistribute based on wireless carriers' existing equipment, network needs, customer experience demands, etc. Furthermore, I'd like to see this result in wireless carriers getting much more spectrum than they currently have. None of the wireless carriers would lose spectrum, rather they would gain spectrum which expands on their priority frequencies for much wider channels, only trading out spectrum they have less of for more of what they have the majority of. Markets ought to be more equally distributed this way without such huge gaps in spectrum allotment differences. This is what I'd like done, at least.

 

Anyways, it'll be interesting if Softbank does get a lot of spectrum in this auction, especially if it hinders T-Mobile's plans. It'll be interesting to see, just as it will if Softbank/Sprint tries again for an acquisition of T-Mobile. Then again so could AT&T try it, or even Dish. However, I'd like to see Sprint acquire Dish, so that Sprint could have a television package to help bundle services and bring in customers. If Sprint could get both Dish and T-Mobile, then Sprint would be king of spectrum and probably even of wireless. That would change Sprint into a massive powerhouse, one I'd definitely like to see happen. 

[jroepcke51]

Well, clbowens mentioned it could go on for months, from what they heard. I wouldn't doubt that the auction might take a long time from all the potential issues. Already, some groups are complaining about T-Mobile's proposed timeline in their work implementing the spectrum they'd get for it and the timeline in equipment setup, I've heard.

 

​Other problems are possible, as this auction involves more than most auctions do. I'm not a supporter of these auctions based on how I think they are unfair and just are not the best way of distributing spectrum to the wireless carriers. Added to this auction though, are broadcasters, which from my understanding are being given a choice whether or not or how much spectrum to give in this auction, which is going to make for some major differences by market. I definitely do not like this, and would rather the FCC reign in spectrum to fairly redistribute based on wireless carriers' existing equipment, network needs, customer experience demands, etc. Furthermore, I'd like to see this result in wireless carriers getting much more spectrum than they currently have. None of the wireless carriers would lose spectrum, rather they would gain spectrum which expands on their priority frequencies for much wider channels, only trading out spectrum they have less of for more of what they have the majority of. Markets ought to be more equally distributed this way without such huge gaps in spectrum allotment differences. This is what I'd like done, at least.

 

Anyways, it'll be interesting if Softbank does get a lot of spectrum in this auction, especially if it hinders T-Mobile's plans. It'll be interesting to see, just as it will if Softbank/Sprint tries again for an acquisition of T-Mobile. Then again so could AT&T try it, or even Dish. However, I'd like to see Sprint acquire Dish, so that Sprint could have a television package to help bundle services and bring in customers. If Sprint could get both Dish and T-Mobile, then Sprint would be king of spectrum and probably even of wireless. That would change Sprint into a massive powerhouse, one I'd definitely like to see happen. 

A combined Sprint/Tmo/Dish is impossible. More improbable than a S/Tmo merger.  However, I could see a Dish Sprint merger. That is feasible.

[Trip]

It's here.  The PN announcing a 126 MHz clearing target, good for 10 blocks in most markets:

 

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-16-453A1.pdf

 

And here's the list of markets and number of blocks for sale in each:

 

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-16-453A2.pdf

 

- Trip

[ericdabbs]

Wow so they were able to clear the full 126 mhz target. That sounds like a huge amount of low band spectrum up for grabs. I hope softbank scoops up some of this 600 mhz spectrum for later use.

 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[Trip]

Bear in mind the auction happens in stages.  If the wireless companies don't bid enough to pay the price the broadcasters demand, the number of blocks decreases and bidding continues.  So if the broadcasters want, say, $60 billion but only $30 billion is bid, the amount of spectrum will drop to 114 MHz and bidding will continue.  That can happen multiple times until supply and demand meet.

 

- Trip

[Arysyn]

It's here.  The PN announcing a 126 MHz clearing target, good for 10 blocks in most markets:

 

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-16-453A1.pdf

 

And here's the list of markets and number of blocks for sale in each:

 

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-16-453A2.pdf

 

- Trip

 

In Chicago where I'm at, the FCC lists it at 10 blocks with zero impairment, all category 1 blocks. What does this mean exactly? How much of the 500mhz spectrum is going to be auctioned off here?