Marcelo Claure, Town Hall Meetings, New Family Share Pack Plan, Unlimited Individual Plan, Discussion Thread

[Dkoellerwx]

Sprint has to split their 30 mhz B block to go for the C5 1905-1910 block from Att to go 10x10.

 

1895-1905 is tmobile. They have 0 incentive to move from where they're located. Money or other assets will be needed to convince tmobile to move off their c block spectrum which is much more complicated then this deals straight up swaps for continuity.

 

But they could do 10x10 in the B block with some CDMA trimming right?

[WiWavelength]

Phoenix is in a decent PCS spectrum situation right now with the full B block. With CDMA trimming, that should be enough for at least a 10x10 carrier eventually. I believe AT&T and T-Mobile both own parts of the C block in Phoenix area, so a spectrum swap may be a bit more difficult to work out. AJ or Tim may have a better idea of what could happen there.

 

The Sprint-AT&T spectrum transaction seems directed mostly at problem markets, those with band 25 and/or band 41 limitations.

 

Phoenix does not have a band 25 PCS problem.  It has a band 26 SMR problem.  Thanks, Joe Arpaio!

 

Phoenix already has a band 25 second carrier at 5 MHz FDD.  In the relatively near future, that will expand to 10 MHz FDD.  So, Phoenix will have the band 25 first carrier at 5 MHz FDD, the band 25 second carrier at 10 MHz FDD, the band 26 carrier at 5 MHz FDD, and at least two band 41 carriers at 20 MHz TDD.  Phoenix will be fine.

 

AJ

[NYC126]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I always hear Sprint control an average of 120mhz of 2.5ghz spectrum in top 100 markets. I know New York City:), Chicago and LA are some of them. What are the others cities that Sprint brag about 2.5ghz spectrum rich?

 

Just to clarify I think they only will need 60mhz of it anyways.

[Mr.Nuke]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I always hear Sprint control an average of 120mhz of 2.5ghz spectrum in top 100 markets. I know New York City:), Chicago and LA are some of them. What are the others cities that Sprint brag about 2.5ghz spectrum rich?

 

Just to clarify I think they only will need 60mhz of it anyways.

Don't you already kind of have the answer in your first sentence?

[cerreta28]

The Sprint-AT&T spectrum transaction seems directed mostly at problem markets, those with band 25 and/or band 41 limitations.

 

Phoenix does not have a band 25 PCS problem. It has a band 26 SMR problem. Thanks, Joe Arpaio!

 

Phoenix already has a band 25 second carrier at 5 MHz FDD. In the relatively near future, that will expand to 10 MHz FDD. So, Phoenix will have the band 25 first carrier at 5 MHz FDD, the band 25 second carrier at 10 MHz FDD, the band 26 carrier at 5 MHz FDD, and at least two band 41 carriers at 20 MHz TDD. Phoenix will be fine.

 

AJ

Will 3xCA be something we get as well ?

 

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[Dkoellerwx]

Will 3xCA be something we get as well ?

 

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Yes.

[cerreta28]

Yes.

Will they ever do more than that or is 3x CA the most

 

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[lilotimz]

Will they ever do more than that or is 3x CA the most

 

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3xCA max. Then split the from 8t8r into two 4t4r and run a different 2x / 3xCA on the second sector using different frequencies.

 

Future phones are capable of like up to 5xCA but the eNB have hardware limits on how much spectrum each port supports.

[cerreta28]

3xCA max. Then split the from 8t8r into two 4t4r and run a different 2x / 3xCA on the second sector using different frequencies.

 

Future phones are capable of like up to 5xCA but the eNB have hardware limits on how much spectrum each port supports.

So will that give sprint a future advantage over other carriers like say AT&T

 

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[lilotimz]

So will that give sprint a future advantage over other carriers like say AT&T

 

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You don't need to add more equipment to add more capacity. All software and spectrum holdings.

 

Basically once the 800+1.9 & 2.5 Equipment are installed. They're done unless they want to optionally add more physical sectors or upgrade another antenna radio set for 4x MIMO on lte like what's happening right now.

[cerreta28]

You don't need to add more equipment to add more capacity. All software and spectrum holdings.

 

Basically once the 800+1.9 & 2.5 Equipment are installed. They're done unless they want to optionally add more physical sectors or upgrade another antenna radio set for 4x MIMO on lte like what's happening right now.

Thanks for taking the time and answering all these questions I'm learning a lot at the time of help what type of speed you expect to see with 3x ca

 

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[Dkoellerwx]

Thanks for taking the time and answering all these questions I'm learning a lot at the time of help what type of speed you expect to see with 3x ca

 

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1 carrier maxes out around 80Mbps ... x 3. 

[cerreta28]

1 carrier maxes out around 80Mbps ... x 3.

Thanks!!

 

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[Terrell352]

1 carrier maxes out around 80Mbps ... x 3.

82.3

[cerreta28]

82.3

If AT&T does 17 2 30 together will that be fast the. 3xca?

 

All with 10x10

 

 

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[caspar347]

If AT&T does 17 2 30 together will that be fast the. 3xca?

 

All with 10x10

 

 

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Theoretical max for a single 10x10 is roughly 75 IIRC. So three of those would be about 225. Which is close to but slightly below the theoretical max of 247 for Sprint's 3xCA. But those are theoretical maximums and you are unlikely to see numbers that high during a normal day.

 

But it is worth noting that in some cities Sprint will have 2 3xCA chains running long-term, so even though the theoretical max of 247 stays the same you would be more likely to hit it with Sprint than AT&T because the users-per-chain would be half of AT&T's (all other factors aside).

 

But that's an oversimplification since Sprint and AT&T have different amounts of customers from city-to-city.

 

Edit: forgot to mention Sprint might change the TDD ratios at some point which could put the theoretical max for 3xCA higher or lower than it is now. IIRC the commonly cited "capacity" configuration raises the theoretical max from 82 to about 110. AT&T does not have that option.

[cerreta28]

Theoretical max for a single 10x10 is roughly 75 IIRC. So three of those would be about 225. Which is close to but slightly below the theoretical max of 247 for Sprint's 3xCA. But those are theoretical maximums and you are unlikely to see numbers that high during a normal day.

 

But it is worth noting that in some cities Sprint will have 2 3xCA chains running long-term, so even though the theoretical max of 247 stays the same you would be more likely to hit it with Sprint than AT&T because the users-per-chain would be half of AT&T's (all other factors aside).

 

But that's an oversimplification since Sprint and AT&T have different amounts of customers from city-to-city.

 

Edit: forgot to mention Sprint might change the TDD ratios at some point which could put the theoretical max for 3xCA higher or lower than it is now. IIRC the commonly cited "capacity" configuration raises the theoretical max from 82 to about 110. AT&T does not have that option.

Wow great info !!! I thought I read they would do 6xCA at some point .. I'm a guess that 2 carriers of 3xCA

 

 

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[lilotimz]

If AT&T does 17 2 30 together will that be fast the. 3xca?

 

All with 10x10

 

 

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Depends. 

 

For one, ATTs spectrum is fragmented among multiple bands of different frequencies unlike Sprint which uses B41 LTE carriers spectrum that are adjacent to each other. 

 

ATT B12/17 may cover a hell of a lot more people because it's tuned for coverage then you get the Band 2-4 which is capacity bands and Band 30 which is another capacity band. Each frequency have different propogation characteristics and no doubt will have different loading or signal quality which will all affect speeds.

 

So say 700 MHz is running good at 5-10 mbps and load balancing well onto Band  2 / 4 which may be running 10-20 mbps. But then you get situations where say you get a decent 700 MHz signal inside a building but Band 2 / 4 and 30 is running right at the edge of usability. Even though theoretically they should be able to provide equal speeds to Sprints 3xCA, it' probably won't since the degradation the B2 or 4 or 30 SCCs will be right at the edge of usability providing only a tiny bit of capacity. 

 

Since Sprint is doing intraband contiguous carrier aggregation, the LTE carriers are placed adjacent to each other which means there's little to no signal propogation differences. Each carrier will almost cover exactly the same area, give almost the same performance, and be load balanced to run about the same speeds. Thus Sprints 3xCA would be much more reliable in terms of speeds whereas ATTs 3xCA solution over different bands may be highly variable. 

 

TLDR:

 

ATT - 3xCA over multiple bands = variable speeds depending on the LTE carriers signal & performance

Sprint - 2x/3xCA = consistent in doubling or triple the speeds of a single B41 LTE carrier

[caspar347]

Wow great info !!! I thought I read they would do 6xCA at some point .. I'm a guess that 2 carriers of 3xCA

 

 

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Think of it like this:

 

There could be up to six 82mbps pipes. But phones can only use three of them at a time.

 

The advantage of this over just three 82mbps pipes (basically what AT&T is doing but with 75mbps pipes) is you can have one user on three pipes and another user on the other three pipes and their data use wouldn't impact each other. This makes Sprint's setup more reliable and consistent.

 

Also: Tim's post above this one is a great explanation of why real world speeds will be very different from the theoretical maximums, especially for AT&T.

[cerreta28]

Think of it like this:

 

There could be up to six 82mbps pipes. But phones can only use three of them at a time.

 

The advantage of this over just three 82mbps pipes is you can have one user on three pipes and another user on the other three pipes and their data use wouldn't impact each other.

GOT IT!! THANKS !! Now we just need band 26 and Phoenix might be set !

 

 

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[WiWavelength]

82.3

 

And that extra 2.3 makes all the difference in the world.

 

AJ

[Terrell352]

And that extra 2.3 makes all the difference in the world.

 

AJ

It just might.

 

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[GoBigRed79]

I went ahead and made the switch from Framily to Better Choice this morning via chat.  Framily was a great deal, but I have been losing members at a fairly good clip recently, and adding new members has become more and more difficult, so I am happy to have moved on.  And just if you were wondering, according to the chat rep the data portion of the plan is discountable.  The access fees are not.  So with discount 12GB of shared data for 2 lines with hotspot included for $89, I'm happy.  

[bigsnake49]

The Sprint-AT&T spectrum transaction seems directed mostly at problem markets, those with band 25 and/or band 41 limitations.

 

Phoenix does not have a band 25 PCS problem.  It has a band 26 SMR problem.  Thanks, Joe Arpaio!

 

Phoenix already has a band 25 second carrier at 5 MHz FDD.  In the relatively near future, that will expand to 10 MHz FDD.  So, Phoenix will have the band 25 first carrier at 5 MHz FDD, the band 25 second carrier at 10 MHz FDD, the band 26 carrier at 5 MHz FDD, and at least two band 41 carriers at 20 MHz TDD.  Phoenix will be fine.

 

AJ

 

So, will it be better to eventually have 2x10x10 or one 5x5 and one 15x15?

[Paynefanbro]

So, will it be better to eventually have 2x10x10 or one 5x5 and one 15x15?

 

 

In terms of capacity they'll be the same.