Sprint to join Rural Operators Roaming Hub (CCA and RRPP thread)

[afazel]

A little bird told me of an even bigger announcement come mid summer that many have wanted for over a decade.

 

 

Hmm, perhaps an expansion of their WiFi calling beyond the few phones that offer it now...

[Rawvega]

I dunno. Have people really been waiting over a decade for that?

 

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[david279]

10 years ago i had a nextel blackberry so i dont know what i could be waiting for since then. Maybe 5 years ago would have been a better estimate.

[JeffDTD]

3G roaming, coast to coast,  for all customers regardless of PRL? 

 

If we're talking just LTE, I find the press release from Sprint to be misleading based on what we know about nTelos and SoLinc. The press release states "now extends coverage" when in fact the networks described for those two companies don't exist at that extent yet.   

 

Specifically, another example 

 

• C Spire Wireless, covering over 61,700 square miles and approximately 5.5 million people in Mississippi, Alabama, Florida and Tennessee

Meanwhile, as of June, 2014, Cspire only claims their LTE reaches 2.1 million people across 11,900 square miles. 

 

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140616006163/en/Spire-4G-delivers-cutting-edge-network-performance#.U6DZEfldVS0

 

So, are Sprint's numbers for at least some of these companies representative of what they "hope to build one day"?   Or did Sprint describe all the coverage offered by each carrier, regardless of technology, just to make this sound better?  No real sure how anyone would use that SoLinc iden network anymore.  How else do you reconcile the differences in those numbers?

[Paynefanbro]

3G roaming, coast to coast,  for all customers regardless of PRL? 

 

If we're talking just LTE, I find the press release from Sprint to be misleading based on what we know about nTelos and SoLinc. The press release states "now extends coverage" when in fact the networks described for those two companies don't exist at that extent yet.   

 

Specifically, another example 

 

 

• C Spire Wireless, covering over 61,700 square miles and approximately 5.5 million people in Mississippi, Alabama, Florida and Tennessee

Meanwhile, as of June, 2014, Cspire only claims their LTE reaches 2.1 million people across 11,900 square miles. 

 

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140616006163/en/Spire-4G-delivers-cutting-edge-network-performance#.U6DZEfldVS0

 

So, are Sprint's numbers for at least some of these companies representative of what they "hope to build one day"?   Or did Sprint describe all the coverage offered by each carrier, regardless of technology, just to make this sound better?  No real sure how anyone would use that SoLinc iden network anymore.  How else do you reconcile the differences in those numbers?

My guess is Sprint is holding each of these carriers to building out LTE over their entire footprint in order to roam on Sprint's network. Those numbers likely represent all of that carriers coverage on any technology.

[lordsutch]

What besides application updates from Google Play are going to get you anywhere near the current 100MB - 300MB roaming limit without any user knowledge? I get maybe 100-200MB of total background data use for an entire month, I don't see the roaming limit being much of a problem unless you are streaming or purposely downloading files.

 

I've seen 1 GB+ application updates for games on occasion (EA FIFA 14 had a big one last month). Not the sort of thing you want to happen on a capped plan or while roaming, even if you normally would accept most updates as a matter of course.

 

Really all you'd need is a "no background data while roaming" setting to avoid nasty surprises, although separate data restrictions for native and roaming data would be better.

[WiWavelength]

I've seen 1 GB+ application updates for games on occasion (EA FIFA 14 had a big one last month). Not the sort of thing you want to happen on a capped plan or while roaming, even if you normally would accept most updates as a matter of course.

 

I am sorry, but that is ridiculous.  Why would anyone install an app like that on a smartphone?  A Wi-Fi tablet?  Sure.  A smartphone on an "unlimited" data plan?  Hell no.

 

I know I will take heat for this, but I do not care.  Some of you guys need to get a grip on your smartphone usage.  It does not need to satisfy all your waking needs for phone, laptop, TV, Walkman, gaming system, camera, e-penis, and e-vagina all rolled into one.

 

This is why we really cannot have "unlimited" data...

 

AJ

[afazel]

I am sorry, but that is ridiculous. Why would anyone install an app like that on a smartphone? A Wi-Fi tablet? Sure. A smartphone on an "unlimited" data plan? Hell no.

 

I know I will take heat for this, but I do not care. Some of you guys need to get a grip on your smartphone usage. It does not need to satisfy all your waking needs for phone, laptop, TV, Walkman, gaming system, camera, e-penis, and e-vagina all rolled into one.

 

This is why we really cannot have "unlimited" data...

 

AJ

Android has an option to not install updates over mobile networks. Large apps won't update unless you're on wifi.

 

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[chappo2000]

I am sorry, but that is ridiculous.  Why would anyone install an app like that on a smartphone?  A Wi-Fi tablet?  Sure.  A smartphone on an "unlimited" data plan?  Hell no.

 

I know I will take heat for this, but I do not care.  Some of you guys need to get a grip on your smartphone usage.  It does not need to satisfy all your waking needs for phone, laptop, TV, Walkman, gaming system, camera, e-penis, and e-vagina all rolled into one.

 

This is why we really cannot have "unlimited" data...

 

AJ

 

I'm somewhere in the middle. I don't see a problem in having a device that can satisfy so many needs and wants, my only point is that it should be done responsibly.

 

People need to take control of their own data usage and limit it when practical.

 

Sure, you get a notification that an update is available for a big app. Can't you update that on wifi before you leave the house or when you get home? Is it really that urgent?

 

Daily I get a list of apps that need updates. I only update one or two from the whole list that I will actually use before I get home. Even if it's something I'll use.... I'll wait till I get home before I update a big app and "deal" with the old version for a few hours.

 

It's that age old debate over personal responsibility versus (mostly government) mandates. People are unwilling to act responsibly so other systems have to be put in place to limit everyone. (In most cases)

 

I do think a big problem that cell data usage is a symptom of is the lack of rural broadband options. I know I go to some areas and the cell network is faster than ISP options. People then are encouraged to use their cell as an ISP... which it isn't intended for.

 

If we as network users, whichever the network, treat it as a public restroom it's going to be bad for all of us. Until people take that seriously I don't think companies have much choice than to protect themselves and their networks.

[Mr.Nuke]

I've seen 1 GB+ application updates for games on occasion (EA FIFA 14 had a big one last month). Not the sort of thing you want to happen on a capped plan or while roaming, even if you normally would accept most updates as a matter of course.

 

Really all you'd need is a "no background data while roaming" setting to avoid nasty surprises, although separate data restrictions for native and roaming data would be better.

Deliberately clicking download on a 1GB file isn't background data nor is it a surprise.

[Tajustin95]

I thought the point of the roaming hub was to seemlessly connect to each others network and share it. And wouldn't be considered roaming. Is that what it is or I got the wrong idea of it?

[Fraydog]

I'm somewhere in the middle. I don't see a problem in having a device that can satisfy so many needs and wants, my only point is that it should be done responsibly.

 

People need to take control of their own data usage and limit it when practical.

 

Sure, you get a notification that an update is available for a big app. Can't you update that on wifi before you leave the house or when you get home? Is it really that urgent?

 

Daily I get a list of apps that need updates. I only update one or two from the whole list that I will actually use before I get home. Even if it's something I'll use.... I'll wait till I get home before I update a big app and "deal" with the old version for a few hours.

 

It's that age old debate over personal responsibility versus (mostly government) mandates. People are unwilling to act responsibly so other systems have to be put in place to limit everyone. (In most cases)

 

I do think a big problem that cell data usage is a symptom of is the lack of rural broadband options. I know I go to some areas and the cell network is faster than ISP options. People then are encouraged to use their cell as an ISP... which it isn't intended for.

 

If we as network users, whichever the network, treat it as a public restroom it's going to be bad for all of us. Until people take that seriously I don't think companies have much choice than to protect themselves and their networks.

 

That's the middle I see. I don't want to be the twat clogging up the network, that said, I'll take Sprint's unlimited (now with a catch) or T-Mobile's unlimited over either the duopoly's overage monetization schemes. I realize there's times where I should PUT THE SMARTPHONE DOWN but that's something I should have to learn to manage, not the network doing it for me. That said, we reach the point where network optimization and throttling has to happen at some point. It may suck, but it beats the alternative. 

 

Sprint and for that matter ALL THE CARRIERS need to be far more aggressive about stretching out WiFi. Not just WiFi that runs at snail speed like AT&T is prone to deploy. The carriers need to deploy carrier grade 802.11 ac WiFI that provides speeds that, at the worst, simulate the LTE network, or often times go faster, in high capacity areas. I don't do any app updates on the LTE network because I live away from Sprint coverage and have to be on a tiered carrier, a tiered carrier that has deployed LTE of greatly alternating speeds in my home town. 

 

LTE still has to make capacity progress because the race to capacity isn't going away. Even if it did go away, carriers could do the race to sleep where data is instantaneous and people can more quickly put their smartphones down. 

 

Instead of enhancing the landline broadband infrastructure, the Big Two seem intent on not caring about it. See AT&T and U-Hearse. See Verizon rage quit FiOS deployment. We have lots of fiber for big business. The little guy? Not so much. Cable is doing well in some areas but it's not the greatest way to go. And we've killed local loop unbundling when we should be doubling down on it along with vectoring.  The Big Two want home to be where the data monetization schemes are, you know. See AT&T wanting to decommission rural DSL and phone in lots of places as part of its IP Migration. See Verizon sell off rural areas like mine on the landline side to Frontier, a horrid company I wouldn't wish on Tony Chen. 

 

The status quo - especially for landline - is completely broken. With that status quo for landline broken, you're going to see lots more not so well off people use their smartphone unlimited exclusively. That's why you see the usage patterns that exist. It's not giving a crap about poor or rural. We have two Internets in America - one for the rich. One for the poor. That can't stand as a society. And when rural communities like mine want to build fiber, the Big Two block it by passing laws in Red States keeping communities from doing what Chattanooga did and building gigabit fiber to the home. Fortunately in Illinois no such laws have passed yet. 

 

My 30 Mbps home connection isn't bad, even though it is expensive for $64 a month. I'd probably pay half that in the UK or in continental Europe. I'd probably get a gigabit for $64 in South Korea. But as long as landline lags, it's going to put more pressure on mobile. The Big Two don't care, they want more overages. The smaller two may have to juggle this too because of people running from the Big Two. 

 

I'm on rant mode now, but in short, it would be easier to do what AJ suggests if our rural broadband structure and our broadband structure for the poor didn't completely blow. 

[Destroyallcubes]

I am sorry, but that is ridiculous.  Why would anyone install an app like that on a smartphone?  A Wi-Fi tablet?  Sure.  A smartphone on an "unlimited" data plan?  Hell no.

 

I know I will take heat for this, but I do not care.  Some of you guys need to get a grip on your smartphone usage.  It does not need to satisfy all your waking needs for phone, laptop, TV, Walkman, gaming system, camera, e-penis, and e-vagina all rolled into one.

 

This is why we really cannot have "unlimited" data...

 

AJ

If I download this game to play on the road, and it requires an update to play,I will download using LTE. It has nothing to do with , hey I just downloaded this file this fast. It is because I wanted to use my my smartphone for a game. And yes I have streamed some Videos of the World cup games when I am out and about,but That is what data is used for. And I streamed almost an entire game with under 300mb of data usage. And I will admit I will use LTE on the Go to upload picture that I take just because it is 10x faster than doing it at home. And because Most pictures taken are from my Smartphone, I am just using my Data within reason. The most I used was around 12 GB and that was because I watched A ton of movies. But It was on my smart phone. But Apps are getting larger, and if you need an update for those apps , especially EA games require updates, Fifa for example, and so It will update most of the time it opens up.

[lordsutch]

Deliberately clicking download on a 1GB file isn't background data nor is it a surprise.

The point is *I didn't deliberately do it*. I only found out it was downloading from the notification bar when auto updates kicked in. If I'd been roaming I'd have been screwed. Particularly on LTE when it would have only taken a few seconds.

[gnoj]

I have been wanting that for more than a decade, make it 15 years. In order of priority here is my wishful thinking list:

 

1. Completion band 25+26 buildout by end of 2015, period, end of story, no freaking excuses

2. USCC + CSpire buyout

3. 10MHz+10Mhz of 800MHz SMR with no IBEZ restrictions

4. Approval of the T-Mobile/Sprint merger

 

How do you envision that becoming possible? Even if no one opts to occupy the Expansion Band, that leaves just 8x8 of ESMR. The FCC would have to reband and ask public safety to move again. Neither that nor a resolution with Canada concerning the IBEZ are likely going to happen for the foreseeable future. T-Mobile's 700A is also far from being nationwide and seems likely to end up divested if there is a merger, since it has not yet been deployed, and should be easy to sell. That is why obtaining a sizable chunk of 600 MHz (preferably at least 20 MHz) is very important. That would be much more costly to do, however, if a merger is approved within a year and the spectrum reserve is consequently eliminated.

 

"Unlimited" data with uncapped roaming does not work.  Users can then arbitrage the system, for example, paying Sprint Framily rates and having access to better Sprint devices but living permanently in USCC native coverage.  This happened frequently with Sprint affiliates and Rural Alliance partners.  Such situations were not good for Sprint nor for affiliates/partners.

 

Just don't sign up customers with addresses outside of Sprint's native coverage footprint. If that doesn't work, then cut off customers who consistently (~3 consecutive months) use a majority of their data from non-Sprint sites, as true Sprint customers would spend most of their time within Sprint's native service area. I would agree that if these "Rural Roaming Preferred Program"/Roaming Hub arrangements permit customers who live in a non-native Sprint area to sign up with Sprint, that wouldn't make much sense, and is unfair to the local network operator.

 

I am sorry, but that is ridiculous.  Why would anyone install an app like that on a smartphone?  A Wi-Fi tablet?  Sure.  A smartphone on an "unlimited" data plan?  Hell no.

 

I know I will take heat for this, but I do not care.  Some of you guys need to get a grip on your smartphone usage.  It does not need to satisfy all your waking needs for phone, laptop, TV, Walkman, gaming system, camera, e-penis, and e-vagina all rolled into one.

 

This is why we really cannot have "unlimited" data...

 

Out of curiosity, precisely how much usage would you deem reasonable, assuming current prices and daytime usage? Otherwise, if I choose one day to upgrade to "unlimited" data and use my phone to its full potential as advertised, I must be ever mindful of the potential that usage has of inadvertently becoming a subject of disdain...

[bigsnake49]

How do you envision that becoming possible? Even if no one opts to occupy the Expansion Band, that leaves just 8x8 of ESMR. The FCC would have to reband and ask public safety to move again. Neither that nor a resolution with Canada concerning the IBEZ are likely going to happen for the foreseeable future. T-Mobile's 700A is also far from being nationwide and seems likely to end up divested if there is a merger, since it has not yet been deployed, and should be easy to sell. That is why obtaining a sizable chunk of 600 MHz (preferably at least 20 MHz) is very important. That would be much more costly to do, however, if a merger is approved within a year and the spectrum reserve is consequently eliminated.

 

You can get 9+9MHz by occupying the guard and expansion band. You only need another 1MHz. If I was Sprint I would pay the mixed use PS +B/ILT and move them to the 700MHz PS band which is actually adjacent to the 700MHz PS broadband band. Come to think of it, I would reband them all of them and move them to 700MHz PS voice band.

Edited June 18, 2014 by bigsnake49

[JeremiahMcCurry]

 T-Mobile's 700A is also far from being nationwide and seems likely to end up divested if there is a merger, since it has not yet been deployed, and should be easy to sell.

 

T-Mobile is still making offers for more low-band spectrum. http://nypost.com/2014/06/17/spectrum-purchases-could-keep-t-mobile-afloat-if-merger-fails/ No mention if it's 700A, though.

[bigsnake49]

I have been wanting that for more than a decade, make it 15 years. In order of priority here is my wishful thinking list:

 

1. Completion band 25+26 buildout by end of 2015, period, end of story, no freaking excuses

2. USCC + CSpire buyout

3. 10MHz+10Mhz of 800MHz SMR with no IBEZ restrictions

4. Approval of the T-Mobile/Sprint merger

Actually I mean completion of band 25+26 by the end of 2014, completion of band41 buildout by the end of 2015.

[Paynefanbro]

Actually I mean completion of band 25+26 by the end of 2014, completion of band41 buildout by the end of 2015.

I wouldn't be suprised is Band 41 is complete by the end of 2015 given the current rate of deployment.

[jgore43]

I wouldn't be suprised is Band 41 is complete by the end of 2015 given the current rate of deployment.

Is sprint deploying new b41 fast or is it moving so quickly because of the clear sites being converted?

 

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[Paynefanbro]

Is sprint deploying new b41 fast or is it moving so quickly because of the clear sites being converted?

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Both are happening insanely fast.

[WiWavelength]

But Apps are getting larger, and if you need an update for those apps , especially EA games require updates, Fifa for example, and so It will update most of the time it opens up.

 

Is EA at least transparent enough to prompt the user that a 1 GB app update, to use the earlier example, is required?  Or is this another reason why EA has ranked near the top of the most hated companies in America?  An undisclosed 1 GB app update on a 1 GB data plan would be a real bitch of a surprise.

 

AJ

[david279]

When you first install the app and launch it EA tells you how big the secondary download is(sound files and game files), most of their games work this way. Also in the google play store it tells how big the initial download is. Also they recommend you be on WIFI. Any updates after are incremental updates. Google Play update system is setup that way.

[Paynefanbro]

I'm pretty sure any app that is greater than a certain size (at least on Android) forces you to use Wi-Fi.

[travismheim]

The point is *I didn't deliberately do it*. I only found out it was downloading from the notification bar when auto updates kicked in. If I'd been roaming I'd have been screwed. Particularly on LTE when it would have only taken a few seconds.

You can easily disable updates via mobile networks in Google play settings.

 

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