LTE Plus / Enhanced LTE (was "Sprint Spark" - Official Name for the Tri-Band Network)

[S4GRU]

Thanks although the thing that does concern me more is the voice call performance. Is there any way through the engineering screen to determine if the tower has the new backhaul turned on?

 

Backhaul is not going to have any noticeable increase in voice call quality performance. T1 backhaul is more than sufficient to handle voice demands. I typically have great Sprint voice call quality down to -104dBm.

 

What is going to help call quality in the Chicago market is the deployment of CDMA 800 carriers. These will provide stronger voice signals. But backhaul should not be an issue at all on voice calls.

 

Robert

[ks-man]

Backhaul is not going to have any noticeable increase in voice call quality performance. T1 backhaul is more than sufficient to handle voice demands. I typically have great Sprint voice call quality down to -104dBm.

 

What is going to help call quality in the Chicago market is the deployment of CDMA 800 carriers. These will provide stronger voice signals. But backhaul should not be an issue at all on voice calls.

 

Robert

 

I'm not sure if we are referring to different things or if I've misunderstood what you had said in the past. I thought you and others had mentioned that after the backhaul improvements are complete and activated we should see stronger signals (I thought CDMA) and fewer dropped calls. Am I mistaken? Does the backhaul only impact data speeds meaning that we will continue to see dropped calls until CDMA 800 goes live?

 

Thanks for all of your help.

[S4GRU]

I'm not sure if we are referring to different things or if I've misunderstood what you had said in the past. I thought you and others had mentioned that after the backhaul improvements are complete and activated we should see stronger signals (I thought CDMA) and fewer dropped calls. Am I mistaken? Does the backhaul only impact data speeds meaning that we will continue to see dropped calls until CDMA 800 goes live?

 

Thanks for all of your help.

 

When the physical Network Vision upgrades are complete in your area, should get up to a 20% stronger signal (depending on downtilt and site density in your area). So if you see 3G improvements on your site on the NV Site Complete map, this work is done in your area. This has nothing to do with backhaul.

 

When you see 800 marked on sites in your area, then the 800MHz voice carriers are active. And they produce even stronger signals. Up to 50% (depending on downtilt and site density in your area).

 

These will be the only improvements to the voice network.

 

Backhaul is the connection from your site to Sprint's switch centers and data cores. Both the legacy backhaul and new Network Vision backhaul will provide adequate backhaul for voice services. However, new NV backhaul will improve 3G data speeds at most sites. It should provide no noticeable benefit to voice services.

 

Robert

[ks-man]

Ok, I see and I think I now understand my confusion. The thing that will mean a lot to me is when my towers get the 800MHz upgrade (none have yet). I had thought that wouldn't impact current technology and we'd only see the improvements in a year or two. Looking back over some old posts I'm wondering if I was confusing LTE 800 vs. CDMA 800.

 

This post is very informative so thanks again for continually going through it.

[EndlessDissent]

Don't the apps such as AnyCut and Quick Shortcut Maker work with the custom ROMs? These shortcut apps just bypass the dialer to launch all the same hidden utility apps.

 

Like you said, that method bypasses the dialer to launch apps. Unfortunately, the necessary apps for the dialer functions are not included in AOSP ROMs like Cyanogenmod or AOKP, so no, neither of those apps will make dialer codes work. All of the debug-type functionality you would need is part of the OEM ROMs, so you lose that stuff if you flash a non-Samsung/HTC/LG/whatever-based ROM.

 

 

Does anyone remember how old Verizon phones showed two separate bars for "1X" and "EV"? Not knowing what know now, I thought I was getting better EV-DO reception on my Sprint phone because it just showed the one bar. Now Santa is dead.

 

Not sure if you're interested, but the MIUI ROM shows both a 1x and 3G signal indicator. Though, some people think it's a bug, and the person porting the ROM may "fix" it so it shows only one indicator. I know there is a port of MIUI for the Evo LTE, so you may want to check it out.

Edited September 20, 2012 by EndlessDissent

[S4GRU]

 

Like you said' date=' that method bypasses the dialer to launch apps. Unfortunately, the necessary apps for the dialer functions are not included in AOSP ROMs like Cyanogenmod or AOKP, so no, neither of those apps will make dialer codes work. All of the debug-type functionality you would need is part of the OEM ROMs, so you lose that stuff if you flash a non-Samsung/HTC/LG/whatever-based ROM.

 

Not sure if you're interested, but the MIUI ROM shows both a 1x and 3G signal indicator. Though, some people think it's a bug, and the person porting the ROM may "fix" it so it shows only one indicator. I know there is a port of MIUI for the Evo LTE, so you may want to check it out.[/quote']

 

Thanks. And welcome to S4GRU!

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[digiblur]

Not sure if you're interested, but the MIUI ROM shows both a 1x and 3G signal indicator. Though, some people think it's a bug, and the person porting the ROM may "fix" it so it shows only one indicator. I know there is a port of MIUI for the Evo LTE, so you may want to check it out.

 

Most ROMs I've seen on the EVO LTE and many other Sprint Android devices have the 1X 3G indicator fixed. I've never seen anyone say its a bug. I've always seen it the other way around with the constant 3G indicator.

[EndlessDissent]

Most ROMs I've seen on the EVO LTE and many other Sprint Android devices have the 1X 3G indicator fixed. I've never seen anyone say its a bug. I've always seen it the other way around with the constant 3G indicator.

 

The MIUI ROM has come with dual indicators by default for both phones I've had experience with (OG EVO and GS3). It may be because the devs porting MIUI are using Sense as the base ROM on the EVO LTE instead of an AOSP-based ROM. On both my Evo 4G and GS3, it's ported using CM as a base, but I've heard that a lot of devs are moving to OEM bases like Sense and Touchwiz because they're more "feature-complete". That may affect the ROM's ability to display both indicators. It would probably end up showing the 1x signal like the stock OEM ROM. You could ask in the XDA threads for a real answer.

[digiblur]

No need to ask they usually list that fix in the rom first post. I have used a few of them on the Evo and they all showed 1x. It just the norm. Same thing when I had my Epic 4g.

 

Sent from my C64 w/Epyx FastLoad cartridge

[ks-man]

Ok, I see and I think I now understand my confusion. The thing that will mean a lot to me is when my towers get the 800MHz upgrade (none have yet). I had thought that wouldn't impact current technology and we'd only see the improvements in a year or two. Looking back over some old posts I'm wondering if I was confusing LTE 800 vs. CDMA 800.

 

This post is very informative so thanks again for continually going through it.

 

Another question about this Robert. According to this post, my wife's Evo Shift doesn't support the 800MHz enhancements. However when I check Wikipedia for the Evo Shift it does say for connectivity "Dual-band CDMA/EVDO Rev. A (800 1900 MHz)"

 

It seems most phones support CDMA for both 800 and 1900. Is it specifically SMR that means it can take advantage of the 800MHz upgrades on the tower? If so does it mean that newer phones should exhibit better stability for holding onto reception and not dropping calls? Also is there something specific I should look for in the Debug Engineering screens to confirm whether or not a phone is using the 1900MHz or 800MHz bands?

 

Thanks.

[S4GRU]

Another question about this Robert. According to this post, my wife's Evo Shift doesn't support the 800MHz enhancements. However when I check Wikipedia for the Evo Shift it does say for connectivity "Dual-bandCDMA/EVDO Rev. A (800 1900 MHz)" It seems most phones support CDMA for both 800 and 1900. Is it specifically SMR that means it can take advantage of the 800MHz upgrades on the tower? If so does it mean that newer phones should exhibit better stability for holding onto reception and not dropping calls? Also is there something specific I should look for in the Debug Engineering screens to confirm whether or not a phone is using the 1900MHz or 800MHz bands? Thanks.

 

It does not support 800 SMR. It supports 850 Cellular. Back when it first came out, HTC referenced it as supporting CDMA 800, which was still a common way to refer to the Cellular spectrum (as 800). Because there was no one in the world using SMR spectrum for CDMA. However, after Sprint started ordering devices with CDMA support on SMR, it caused a change for Cellular band to start being referred to as 850 and SMR band as 800. Even as late at the Apple iPhone 4S were there references to CDMA 800 for 850MHz support only.

 

The EVO Shift does not support Sprint's 800MHz SMR band. Only 850MHz Cellular band and 1900 PCS band. On a recent search, only PCmag.com got it right, declaring that the EVO Shift supports 850, not 800.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Upgrading to a device that supports Sprint's 800 SMR will cause you to have better voice coverage in the Chicago area, though. You will know when you are connected to 800 SMR in the 1x Engineering screen in Debug when you see you are connected to Band Class 10, Channel 476 or 526.

 

Robert

[abepilot]

if I see a -85 dB setting on my Galaxy Nexus while connected to LTE via the About Phone//Status page is this as accurate as the DEBUG menu?

[Steven800]

Um how about take ur wife's phone go outside see if service improves and then if it does then its ur house that's the problem. And will probably only get better when they announce lte on 800mhz

[ks-man]

It does not support 800 SMR. It supports 850 Cellular. Back when it first came out, HTC referenced it as supporting CDMA 800, which was still a common way to refer to the Cellular spectrum (as 800). Because there was no one in the world using SMR spectrum for CDMA. However, after Sprint started ordering devices with CDMA support on SMR, it caused a change for Cellular band to start being referred to as 850 and SMR band as 800. Even as late at the Apple iPhone 4S were there references to CDMA 800 for 850MHz support only.

 

The EVO Shift does not support Sprint's 800MHz SMR band. Only 850MHz Cellular band and 1900 PCS band. On a recent search, only PCmag.com got it right, declaring that the EVO Shift supports 850, not 800.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Upgrading to a device that supports Sprint's 800 SMR will cause you to have better voice coverage in the Chicago area, though. You will know when you are connected to 800 SMR in the 1x Engineering screen in Debug when you see you are connected to Band Class 10, Channel 476 or 526.

 

Robert

 

Thanks. That actually is quite good news b/c it means that some of the performance issues might be hardware related. Assuming I switch I'd probably get an SG3 or Note II (or new Nexus if they ever come out). My wife will be upgrading to an iPhone 5 in a couple of months. I'm assuming any of those phones would support 800SMR so we should get the performance we are after even if her Evo Shift doesn't.

[S4GRU]

 

Thanks. That actually is quite good news b/c it means that some of the performance issues might be hardware related. Assuming I switch I'd probably get an SG3 or Note II (or new Nexus if they ever come out). My wife will be upgrading to an iPhone 5 in a couple of months. I'm assuming any of those phones would support 800SMR so we should get the performance we are after even if her Evo Shift doesn't.

 

Yeah, all 3 of those support Sprint CDMA 800.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[xenadu]

I can confirm iPhone 5 is *3001#12345#* same as before. I can't get LTE lock long enough to take screenshots of the menus here at the house but I may walk up the road later and see if I have more luck.

 

It also appears the new iPhone cannot connect to 3G over the Airave but given the flakiness quotient I'd lay that at the feet of the Airave.

 

 

edit: actually it finally connected 3G to the Airave so no idea what the issue was there. I walked around outside but wasn't able to get an LTE connection again. I am starting to wonder if Apple built in logic to dampen the LTE connection if it keeps connecting and dropping to prevent it from wearing out the battery when in a marginal signal area. That may also explain why it wouldn't connect over 3G for a minute or two, it's physical location was the same so no point in hopping around between the same cells over and over only to lose signal moments later.

 

 

Also Robert, I think my earlier post in the iOS forum was wrong about the bars displaying the CDMA 1X signal strength. I think they display the current signal strength for whatever connection is active so when LTE is active it is showing you LTE strength, even though in the background it's CDMA 1X connection is far stronger. It only shows that signal strength when it switches over to CDMA to make a voice call. I tested this a couple of times here at home and that seems to be it's behavior. I'll report back after further testing.

[S4GRU]

I can confirm iPhone 5 is *3001#12345#* same as before. I can't get LTE lock long enough to take screenshots of the menus here at the house but I may walk up the road later and see if I have more luck.

 

It also appears the new iPhone cannot connect to 3G over the Airave but given the flakiness quotient I'd lay that at the feet of the Airave.

 

edit: actually it finally connected 3G to the Airave so no idea what the issue was there. I walked around outside but wasn't able to get an LTE connection again. I am starting to wonder if Apple built in logic to dampen the LTE connection if it keeps connecting and dropping to prevent it from wearing out the battery when in a marginal signal area. That may also explain why it wouldn't connect over 3G for a minute or two' date=' it's physical location was the same so no point in hopping around between the same cells over and over only to lose signal moments later.

 

Also Robert, I think my earlier post in the iOS forum was wrong about the bars displaying the CDMA 1X signal strength. I think they display the current signal strength for whatever connection is active so when LTE is active it is showing you LTE strength, even though in the background it's CDMA 1X connection is far stronger. It only shows that signal strength when it switches over to CDMA to make a voice call. I tested this a couple of times here at home and that seems to be it's behavior. I'll report back after further testing.[/quote']

 

Thanks for the updated info on the LTE signal strength. I hope that pans out because that makes much more sense.

 

As for the LTE Enginnering screens, do you enter the code above into the telephone dialer just like Android? Post screen shots when you get a chance. I appreciate the help!

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy S-III 32GB using Forum Runner

[iansltx]

I don't have a Sprint iOS device to test with, but I do know that my iPad (VZW) shows bars for whatever network it's connected to. Then again, it's a "data only" device (by which I mean all voice has to be VoIP), so displaying the signal for 1x while being connected via LTE would be highly counter-intuitive (I wonder if the iPad can even connect to two cellular networks simultaneously, but I can't confirm this because there's no debug screen that I can get to with an un-jailbroken device).

 

Unrelated: both of my Windows Mobile phones would display signal bars for the highest-speed network they were connected to at any given point in time. When on a call, signal bars would switch to 1x; otherwise they'd be EvDO (no SVDO of course, since these were the HTC Mogul and the HTC Touch Pro).

[pii100]

I grabbed a few SS on my wife's iPhone 5 this evening. Also tried G-Mon while connected to LTE on my android, lets say it didn't work well. see below:

 

 

Album: http://imgur.com/a/Mz0zJ

[xenadu]

Thanks for the updated info on the LTE signal strength. I hope that pans out because that makes much more sense.

 

As for the LTE Enginnering screens, do you enter the code above into the telephone dialer just like Android? Post screen shots when you get a chance. I appreciate the help!

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy S-III 32GB using Forum Runner

 

Yes to the dialer. Just enter it and press Dial.

 

[WiWavelength]

Courtesy of one of my Twitter followers (@milanmilanovic), I received numerous iPhone 5 Field Test screen caps:

 

 

 

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

 

 

AJ

[xenadu]

Doh, I just drove out to an LTE tower to take the same shots. Got 30Mbps download too.

[jordanlong20]

didn't read thread but

 

on the EVO LTE

 

settings>about>network

 

your LTE strength is listed there (RSRP)

[S4GRU]

didn't read thread but

 

Yes, you must not have.

 

Robert