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Verizon eyeing wireless business in Canada: Report


Rawvega
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(Reuters) - Verizon Communications Inc is looking to enter Canada's cellular telephone business, potentially fulfilling the government's hopes of having a fourth major wireless company, the Globe and Mail reported on Monday.

 

Verizon could look at taking over a smaller player in Canada, such as Wind Mobile, and participating in a new wireless spectrum auction, the newspaper reported citing two industry sources familiar with the situation. (http://link.reuters.com/zas88t)

 

New entrants such as Wind, Mobilicity and Public Mobile have helped to drive down wireless prices in Canada, but have struggled to turn a profit.

 

The struggles of the new entrants have frustrated the Canadian government's hopes of having a fourth major wireless company in all parts of the country to compete with Telus Corp, BCE Inc's Bell unit and Rogers Communications.

 

AT&T Corp, Vodafone Group Plc and Telenor ASA could be other possible investors, the newspaper said.

 

(Reporting By Vijay Vishwas in Bangalore; Editing by Sreejiraj Eluvangal)

 

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/verizon-eyeing-wireless-business-canada-114557556.html

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It's hard for me to imagine Verizon as a carrier who spurs competition.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

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The Canadian market is small potatoes. I find it difficult to believe that VZW would be interested, especially as it would be competing against Bell/Telus and Rogers -- the Canadian versions of itself and AT&T. VZW wants to be the big dog or stay home.

 

AJ

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We sure this isn't Vodafone? :lol:

As bad as Vodafone did in Japan we don't want them in Canada either, and frankly, I wish they would buy out Verizon's stake in VZW and run it into the ground so Verizon Wireless would die.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

So it looks like Verizon's going to Canada but why?

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/canadas-new-spectrum-transfer-rules-could-open-door-verizon/2013-07-01

 

 

Well it might be because Canadians pay the highest rates in the world

 

http://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/canadas-cell-phone-rates-the-highest-in-the-world/

 

When most competitors enter a market, they make a splash by undercutting the incumbents but for some reason, I don't think Verizon's gonna do that.

 

The Canadian government wants a 4th national competitor to drive down prices but I don't think Verizon is a good candidate for the role.

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Aren't the Canadian carriers that used to have CDMA networks (that were compatible with VZW and Sprint) all in the process of converting to using W-CDMA for voice? If that is true, I can understand why Verizon is interested in entering the Canadian market.

1. To perserve roaming for US CDMA customers in Canada (and most of them are currently Verizon's customers).

2. If all the Canadian carriers go to W-CDMA/GSM, then Verizon isn't going to be getting any roaming revenue from those customers anymore. 
3. They may be able to enter the market cheeply by buying up existing infrastructure from carriers that are/were using CDMA but are converting to W-CDMA/GSM.

 

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Not used to, those CDMA networks are still there. Moreover, the CDMA networks have more coverage than the new W-CDMA networks that are being overlaid.

 

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Not used to, those CDMA networks are still there. Moreover, the CDMA networks have more coverage than the new W-CDMA networks that are being overlaid.

 

Bingo!  You saved me a lengthy explanation.  Thanks, Rawvega.

 

To add to that, neither Bell nor Telus has deployed any GSM, only W-CDMA.

 

AJ

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Bingo!  You saved me a lengthy explanation.  Thanks, Rawvega.

 

To add to that, neither Bell nor Telus has deployed any GSM, only W-CDMA.

 

AJ

 

Yes, but if they're buying Wind, they're getting a pure WCDMA network that needs to be upgraded to LTE and will probably need 700Mhz in the upcoming auction to be competitive with the big three. 

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Yes, but if they're buying Wind, they're getting a pure WCDMA network that needs to be upgraded to LTE and will probably need 700Mhz in the upcoming auction to be competitive with the big three. 

 

The issue that I was responding to was not about Wind; it was about Bell and Telus.  Too many people think that Bell and Telus have switched to W-CDMA.  No, they rolled out some W-CDMA overlay for three reasons:

  1. They had spectrum to burn.
  2. They wanted the iPhone.
  3. They wanted roaming revenue from the Vancouver Winter Olympics.

Other than excess spectrum, which is a constant "problem" for Bell, Telus, and Rogers, the other two reasons are now ancient history.  Furthermore, their CDMA2000 networks are still in place -- in fact, I roamed on Telus two months ago -- and they still offer greater coverage area than the W-CDMA overlays.

 

AJ

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Not used to, those CDMA networks are still there. Moreover, the CDMA networks have more coverage than the new W-CDMA networks that are being overlaid.

 

 

Bingo! You saved me a lengthy explanation. Thanks, Rawvega.

 

To add to that, neither Bell nor Telus has deployed any GSM, only W-CDMA.

 

AJ

Plus, from everything I've read, Bell and Telus have no plans to discontinue their CDMA networks because of the roaming revenue they bring in from US CDMA roaming customers. All they see is '$$$$$'.

 

If Verizon does enter the Canadian market, it's because they want to cheat the Big 2 in Canada of their roaming revenue, and enhance their own pocket books in the process. A purchase of Wind Mobile will put them in line to upgrade Wind's AWS to LTE and once Verizon sets up VoLTE, their customers would be on AWS just like in the US.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

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Plus, from everything I've read, Bell and Telus have no plans to discontinue their CDMA networks because of the roaming revenue they bring in from US CDMA roaming customers. All they see is '$$$$$'.

 

If Verizon does enter the Canadian market, it's because they want to cheat the Big 2 in Canada of their roaming revenue, and enhance their own pocket books in the process. A purchase of Wind Mobile will put them in line to upgrade Wind's AWS to LTE and once Verizon sets up VoLTE, their customers would be on AWS just like in the US.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

 

I don't think Verizon is eager to build another CDMA network when they're trying to shut it down in the US. How could they justify charging roaming to their American customers who "roam" onto the Verizon network in Canadia? I'm sure that Verizon-US customers are the biggest $$$ for roaming onto Canada.

 

The Canadian 700 MHz auction is coming up very soon

 

http://www.rcrwireless.com/article/20130604/spectrum_auction/canada-looks-infuse-competition-mobile-space-delays-700-mhz-auction/#_

 

Don't expect Band 12 to get very high bids.

 

I think Verizon is gonna buy Band 13 spectrum in Canada and create an all-LTE network just like they want to here. Their Canadian phones will have CDMA for roaming down south courtesy of Qualcomm.

Also, the Tier 2 carriers they're buying don't even have any 850 MHz spectrum, right? 

It's Mobilicity, Wind Mobile, Public Mobile

These carriers were created after Canada's AWS auction.

That's who Verizon would be buying so they couldn't create a new CDMA network if they wanted.

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Turns out there's a reason why Canadians pay so much: besides China, they're the only country that doesn't allow foreign direct investment.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/11/17/f-naguib-sawiris.html

 

So the Canadian government's public declarations that they want a fourth national competitor is just BS.

Cause they'd change their investment rules if that were the case.

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Plus, from everything I've read, Bell and Telus have no plans to discontinue their CDMA networks because of the roaming revenue they bring in from US CDMA roaming customers. All they see is '$$$$$'.

 

 

If Verizon does enter the Canadian market, it's because they want to cheat the Big 2 in Canada of their roaming revenue, and enhance their own pocket books in the process. A purchase of Wind Mobile will put them in line to upgrade Wind's AWS to LTE and once Verizon sets up VoLTE, their customers would be on AWS just like in the US.

 

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

I don't think Verizon is eager to build another CDMA network when they're trying to shut it down in the US. How could they justify charging roaming to their American customers who "roam" onto the Verizon network in Canadia? I'm sure that Verizon-US customers are the biggest $$$ for roaming onto Canada.

 

I think they're gonna buy Band 13 spectrum in Canada and create an all-LTE network just like they want to here. Their Canadian phones will have CDMA for roaming down south.

Also, the Tier 2 carriers they're buying don't even have 850 MHz spectrum, right?

It's Mobilicity, Wind Mobile, Public Mobile

 

Turns out there's a reason why Canadians pay so much: besides China, they're the only country that doesn't allow foreign direct investment.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/11/17/f-naguib-sawiris.html

 

So the Canadian government's public declarations that they want a fourth national competitor is just BS.

Cause they'd change their investment rules if that were the case.

 

First, in terms of foreign direct investment, Wind Mobile is a result of an Egyptian foreign direct investment, which took quite a while to secure. 2nd, I didn't say they would start another CDMA network there, they would use the AWS holdings that Wind has and upgrade it to LTE and when most of their US customers are on VoLTE, then they can gouge their US customers for roaming and pay it back to themselves.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

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Aren't the Canadian carriers that used to have CDMA networks (that were compatible with VZW and Sprint) all in the process of converting to using W-CDMA for voice? If that is true, I can understand why Verizon is interested in entering the Canadian market.

 

1. To perserve roaming for US CDMA customers in Canada (and most of them are currently Verizon's customers).

2. If all the Canadian carriers go to W-CDMA/GSM, then Verizon isn't going to be getting any roaming revenue from those customers anymore. 

3. They may be able to enter the market cheeply by buying up existing infrastructure from carriers that are/were using CDMA but are converting to W-CDMA/GSM.

 

 

 

1. That implies that Verizon is spending billions in Canada so its own customers will stay on a technology that it wants them to get off. If anything, Verizon is happy that CDMA is dying in Canada so those customers buy a Qualcomm LTE/W-CDMA phone.

 

2. Yes. So what? That's the justification for them spending billions in Canada? 

 

3. The only carriers Verizon is buying are the 3 startups that were created after Canada's AWS auction.

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/reports-verizon-makes-600m-800m-bid-canadas-wind-mobile/2013-06-26

 

Wind Mobile, Mobilicity, Public Mobile

 

Look at their coverage maps: they only have enclaves of native coverage - and only on AWS - in one or two metro areas each and the rest is roaming; there is no infrastructure to speak of and it's ALL only AWS.

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First, in terms of foreign direct investment, Wind Mobile is a result of an Egyptian foreign direct investment, which took quite a while to secure. 2nd, I didn't say they would start another CDMA network there, they would use the AWS holdings that Wind has and upgrade it to LTE and when most of their US customers are on VoLTE, then they can gouge their US customers for roaming and pay it back to themselves.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

 

You didn't read the article:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/11/17/f-naguib-sawiris.html

 

"Globalive, headed by Canadian entrepreneur Anthony Lacavera, has a complex ownership structure under which the Canadian equity owners control the company, but Orascom put up more than 80 per cent of the funding.

That raised the ire of telecom incumbents Rogers Communications Inc., BCE Inc. and Telus Corp. which complained to the CRTC that the company doesn't adhere to Canada's stringent foreign ownership rules.

After a lengthy process, Canadian officials eventually ruled that Wind was within the rules and was allowed to launch a cellular service in late 2009."

 

By the skin of their teeth it was ruled ok; that's not how it should be.

We have Tmobile and now Softbank. WTF are the Canadians worried about?

It's one thing to have issues with Huawei and ZTE's routers but when it's Verizon?

 

VoLTE: I'm sure you've read the mods' many posts regarding VoLTE in its current state. Simply, it's not as robust in terms of coverage at 700 MHz, let alone at AWS, compared to even W-CDMA voice.

As the mods said, maybe LTE R12 will fix that but that'll be a while. And this is even more relevant for Verizon who has very far spacing on their LTE towers. Don't think that VZW will make their towers denser in Canada when their low population density will already require a huge investment.

 

And marketing-wise, how can Verizon justify charging their US customers roaming on the Verizon-Canada network? They can't.

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First, in terms of foreign direct investment, Wind Mobile is a result of an Egyptian foreign direct investment, which took quite a while to secure. 2nd, I didn't say they would start another CDMA network there, they would use the AWS holdings that Wind has and upgrade it to LTE and when most of their US customers are on VoLTE, then they can gouge their US customers for roaming and pay it back to themselves.

 

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

You didn't read the article:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/11/17/f-naguib-sawiris.html

 

"Globalive, headed by Canadian entrepreneur Anthony Lacavera, has a complex ownership structure under which the Canadian equity owners control the company, but Orascom put up more than 80 per cent of the funding.

That raised the ire of telecom incumbents Rogers Communications Inc., BCE Inc. and Telus Corp. which complained to the CRTC that the company doesn't adhere to Canada's stringent foreign ownership rules.

After a lengthy process, Canadian officials eventually ruled that Wind was within the rules and was allowed to launch a cellular service in late 2009."

 

By the skin of their teeth it was ruled ok; that's not how it should be.

We have Tmobile and now Softbank. WTF are the Canadians worried about?

It's one thing to have issues with Huawei and ZTE's routers but when it's Verizon?

 

VoLTE: I'm sure you've read the mods' many posts regarding VoLTE in its current state. Simply, it's not as robust in terms of coverage at 700 MHz, let alone at AWS, compared to even W-CDMA voice.

As the mods said, maybe LTE R12 will fix that but that'll be a while. And this is even more relevant for Verizon who has very far spacing on their LTE towers. Don't think that VZW will make their towers denser in Canada when their low population density will already require a huge investment.

 

And marketing-wise, how can Verizon justify charging their US customers roaming on the Verizon-Canada network? They can't.

 

That article was wrote 2 years ago. Here's the kicker: an article wrote earlier this year said that Canada's telecom authority has relaxed their rules more than when they let Wind Mobile start up. If I remember to this evening, I will try to find it. They want a major 4th player, but frankly, Verizon shouldn't be it.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

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