T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[milan03]

No trolling from me. Was hoping for a constructive discussion. I guess that ain't happening today. 

[EvanA]

So as it stands, with T-Mobile actively trying to find 700a wherever possible, how far out are they from deploying on it? I know the iPhone 6/6+ does not support B12, but I believe there are more B12 devices out there, correct? 

They've already started deployment in areas where they don't have interference issues.  Only 3 devices currently support band 12: the Galaxy Avant, ZTE ZMax, and Note 4.

[Fraydog]

Ericsson couldn't even deliver 4x2 MIMO in the coastal markets it served for T-Mobile for the longest time. Some things they have like AIR show promise but there's a reason why Nokia is gaining on Ericsson globally. It's because Nokia Flexi base stations out perform RBS 6000 stations. The new Alcatel-Lucent base stations running LightRadio and Samsung MMBS outperforms the RBS stations too.

 

Sure, Ericsson might still be hanging with T-Mobile, but at this point it would probably be a bigger pain in the ass for them to replace all the Ericsson base stations with Alcatel or Samsung.

[milan03]

Ericsson couldn't even deliver 4x2 MIMO in the coastal markets it served for T-Mobile for the longest time. Some things they have like AIR show promise but there's a reason why Nokia is gaining on Ericsson globally. It's because Nokia Flexi base stations out perform RBS 6000 stations. The new Alcatel-Lucent base stations running LightRadio and Samsung MMBS outperforms the RBS stations too.

 

Sure, Ericsson might still be hanging with T-Mobile, but at this point it would probably be a bigger pain in the ass for them to replace all the Ericsson base stations with Alcatel or Samsung.

4x2 MIMO was never in their phase 1 T-Mobile roadmap. Their goal was a quick and efficient rollout.

Those 90+ lbs AIR21 antennas with integrated radios simply aren't 4x2 capable, but they're much easier to approve and install. Not much to do with RBS cabinets at this point in time.

 

AIR32 antennas will be well over 150lbs, 4x2 MIMO capable and supposedly they're rolling them out in Q4 to sites that don't need structural upgrades.

 

NSN Flexis on the other hand aren't integrated into the antennas, and can be attached at the tower top to capable 4x2 panels. The hardware fully supports 4x2 MIMO which is what T-Mobile has deployed in those markets.

 

ALU LightRadio has been announced back in 2011, but it's been a "no show" for the majority of the phase 1 on all three major operators. 

[lilotimz]

s.ALU LightRadio has been announced back in 2011, but it's been a "no show" for the majority of the phase 1 on all three major operators. 

 

Still no show for Sprint as well even though they've been testing their small cell solutions over a year ago. Samsung has already certified their Band 41/25 pico cell equipment for commercial deployment whereas ALU haven't. 

[S4GRU]

Still no show for Sprint as well even though they've been testing their small cell solutions over a year ago. Samsung is already getting ready to deploy their Band 41/ Band 25 pico cell solutions whereas ALU is nowhere to be found. 

 

Should be ALwho? instead of ALU.  

[Deval]

They've already started deployment in areas where they don't have interference issues.  Only 3 devices currently support band 12: the Galaxy Avant, ZTE ZMax, and Note 4.

 

So here's a question. Are they using B12 strictly for LTE? What will they do about voice calls?

[EvanA]

So here's a question. Are they using B12 strictly for LTE? What will they do about voice calls?

Yes, band 12 is strictly LTE. They'll rely on VoLTE to improve voice coverage, as well as GSM 1900.

[Deval]

Yes, band 12 is strictly LTE. They'll rely on VoLTE to improve voice coverage, as well as GSM 1900.

 

Ah, so VoLTE regardless of band, and GSM 1900 for fallback?

[EvanA]

Ah, so VoLTE regardless of band, and GSM 1900 for fallback?

Yep

[Fraydog]

VoLTE should slightly increase coverage over UMTS 1900...right?

[S4GRU]

VoLTE should slightly increase coverage over UMTS 1900...right?

 

VoLTE on 700?  Versus UMTS on 1900?  Probably.  Optimized B26 LTE has slightly more coverage than PCS EVDO in similar deployment scenarios.  I would think the same would hold for B12 LTE over UMTS 1900.

[Fraydog]

VoLTE on 700? Versus UMTS on 1900? Probably. Optimized B26 LTE has slightly more coverage than PCS EVDO in similar deployment scenarios, I would think the same would hold for B12 LTE over UMTS 1900.

I'd test it out on a VoLTE device on Verizon, but I don't have one and I'm not sure AT&T is even going to use UMTS 1900 post-Alltel. T-Mobile will likely skip over UMTS to go to LTE out here in the BFE.

[Paynefanbro]

VoLTE on 700?  Versus UMTS on 1900?  Probably.  Optimized B26 LTE has slightly more coverage than PCS EVDO in similar deployment scenarios, I would think the same would hold for B12 LTE over UMTS 1900.

 

I find that to be true in the suburbs of Boston. It goes from Band 26 to 800MHz 1x. In some cases, such as indoors, Band 26 can be weak but EVDO still has a pretty good signal. I'm not sure why though.

[bigsnake49]

VoLTE should slightly increase coverage over UMTS 1900...right?

Ehhh...maybe when deployed over 700MHz

[bigsnake49]

I find that to be true in the suburbs of Boston. It goes from Band 26 to 800MHz 1x. In some cases, such as indoors, Band 26 can be weak but EVDO still has a pretty good signal. I'm not sure why though.

Sprint had to detune Band 26 signal to avoid interference, since it is deployed pretty much on every site and Sprint's network is spaced for PCS.

[Paynefanbro]

That is smart but it also sucks.

[bigsnake49]

That is smart but it also sucks.

Yes but it also gives them another 5MHz of LTE.

[WiWavelength]

Sprint had to detune Band 26 signal to avoid interference, since it is deployed pretty much on every site and Sprint's network is spaced for PCS.

 

Nope, not entirely buying that oversimplified explanation.  In metro areas, the duopoly's sites are also generally "spaced for PCS" -- even where they have long held Cellular licenses.  Everybody now needs that close level of site spacing just for capacity.

 

AJ

[Paynefanbro]

Chestnut Hill could definitely use more dense site spacing but I think this is definitely a NIMBY area.

[bigsnake49]

Nope, not entirely buying that oversimplified explanation.  In metro areas, the duopoly's sites are also generally "spaced for PCS" -- even where they have long held Cellular licenses.  Everybody now needs that close level of site spacing just for capacity.

 

AJ

 

You're saying that Sprint did not have to detune band 26 to avoid interference from adjacent sites?

[S4GRU]

You're saying that Sprint did not have to detune band 26 to avoid interference from adjacent sites?

 

I think the issue is your word detune.  I know I kind of take issue with that.  It's not like they were broadcasting at design power levels and then detuned down.  They were fired up at lower power levels right from the get go.  And then at site optimization, the power levels are increased to design levels (or higher) depending on how the network performs.

[bigsnake49]

I think the issue is your word detune.  I know I kind of take issue with that.  It's not like they were broadcasting at design power levels and then detuned down.  They were fired up at lower power levels right from the get go.  And then at site optimization, the power levels are increased to design levels (or higher) depending on how the network performs.

OK, fine .

[Deval]

Which makes for interesting builds on the T-Mobile side. Are they looking to upgrade their base stations or keep their existing builds throughout the existing network? I read that T-Mo will upgrade their EDGE network using ground-mount RRUs, but what about their existing LTE/HSPA?

[Conan Kudo]

Which makes for interesting builds on the T-Mobile side. Are they looking to upgrade their base stations or keep their existing builds throughout the existing network? I read that T-Mo will upgrade their EDGE network using ground-mount RRUs, but what about their existing LTE/HSPA?

The HSPA+/LTE network uses tower-top electronics. And any cell sites getting 700MHz will use tower-top electronics too. That means when those TMAs are removed at the antenna, full multi-band 700/AWS/PCS RRHs go up in their place. The PCS-only ones aren't getting it for now because T-Mobile doesn't want to go up and down to redo the antennas several times in succession. It would be a waste of time and money to do that.

 

So the GMOs are a stopgap until they know for sure about 700MHz in the PCS-only zones and the supply for tri-band RRHs improves, at which point they'll convert to tower-top electronics using the RRH up at the panel (or AIR systems in Ericsson areas).

 

Essentially, the upgrade has been split into two stages to ensure it gets done faster overall. After all, T-Mobile still has to get that AWS deployed at the very least, too.