T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[cdk]

I guess T-Mobile will participate in the AWS-3 auction. They are borrowing money:

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/t-mobile-raise-new-debt-likely-aws-3-spectrum-auction/2014-09-03

 

Is any new equipment required for AWS-3?

[lilotimz]

Is any new equipment required for AWS-3?

Yes. You need band 10 equipment.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[NYC126]

The mangeta boys think tmobile prints its money in the basement. The twins bells will clean that auction up. Not to mention uncle Charlie wants some of that. I mean the dude is basically acquiring airwaves without a network.

[JeffDTD]

So....  in early 2014, we were told to expect  to see something like 50% of Tmo's remaining Edge/GSM network transition to LTE by the end of 2014.  We're 4 months from the end of the year...  a LOT of edge should be disappearing in the next few months? 

[milan03]

So....  in early 2014, we were told to expect  to see something like 50% of Tmo's remaining Edge/GSM network transition to LTE by the end of 2014.  We're 4 months from the end of the year...  a LOT of edge should be disappearing in the next few months? 

Yup, about 15 Million pops in EDGE Only areas will be covered by LTE by the end of 2014, which btw is not 50% of the remaining EDGE footprint, it's more like 27%. Majority of the upgrades will happen in H1 2015.

 

Their goal is to cover 250 Million pops with LTE by the end of 2014.

Currently they're at the 233 Million mark as of the last official announcement a few weeks ago.

Entire footprint covers 284 Million pops.

 

You can find more info and reports on that progress on other T-Mobile Forums.

[maxsilver]

So....  in early 2014, we were told to expect  to see something like 50% of Tmo's remaining Edge/GSM network transition to LTE by the end of 2014.  We're 4 months from the end of the year...  a LOT of edge should be disappearing in the next few months? 

 

For what it's worth, I think folks have seen chunks of it disappear already.  Tmonews has reported a number of small town /  exurb regions switching to LTE, such as:

- http://www.tmonews.com/2014/08/1515-lte-pops-up-ludlow-ma/ 

- http://www.tmonews.com/2014/08/t-mobile-lte-pops-up-in-geneva-and-ashtabula-ohio/

- http://www.tmonews.com/2014/08/4g-sighted-in-new-small-towns-wideband-1515-lte-in-rockford-il/

 

In my area, at least three small cities got bumped from GRPS or EDGE straight to LTE. (Hudsonville, Rockford, Wayland). Sensorly tentatively showing a lot of east side LTE upgrades too.

 

Still plenty of EDGE and GRPS left to go. I don't know about 2014, but at the rate I'm seeing changes here, I think they could easily be finished by mid 2015.

[Destroyallcubes]

Hmm is it me or if Tmobile buys the AWS spectrum in the upcoming auction, where will they get Money for the 600MHz auction? Let T-Mobile over bid, go in debt more, and then leave the 600MHz for sprint to gobble up. They can't afford both

[tybo31316]

Hmm is it me or if Tmobile buys the AWS spectrum in the upcoming auction, where will they get Money for the 600MHz auction? Let T-Mobile over bid, go in debt more, and then leave the 600MHz for sprint to gobble up. They can't afford both

I don't know if the AWS-3 will be able to be deployed shortly after the auction. I know I read on this forum that the 600mhz band would be able to be used until 2017. So T-Mobile may be thinking near term. T-Mobile doesn't have cash for buying spectrum and sitting on it for 2+ years either.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5

[Destroyallcubes]

I don't know if the AWS-3 will be able to be deployed shortly after the auction. I know I read on this forum that the 600mhz band would be able to be used until 2017. So T-Mobile may be thinking near term. T-Mobile doesn't have cash for buying spectrum and sitting on it for 2+ years either.

Sent from my Nexus 5

It may be a year or so, but long term is in sprints favor. Short term AWS-3 would help T-Mobile out , but long term that may hurt them in lack of low band.

[tybo31316]

It may be a year or so, but long term is in sprints favor. Short term AWS-3 would help T-Mobile out , but long term that may hurt them in lack of low band.

Well DT doesn't care about long term because they are trying to exit the US market. They just want T-Mobile to be as attractive as possible for a buyout.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5

[Destroyallcubes]

Well DT doesn't care about long term because they are trying to exit the US market. They just want T-Mobile to be as attractive as possible for a buyout.

Sent from my Nexus 5

True which could be the while reasoning of "uncarrier" attract a buyer, then jack up rates, cause not everyone can leave and be stuck with several hundred dollars of phone cost left.

[bigsnake49]

True which could be the while reasoning of "uncarrier" attract a buyer, then jack up rates, cause not everyone can leave and be stuck with several hundred dollars of phone cost left.

Yeah but uncannier means no contract to most people. Yes you are left with paying off your phone, but at least you can go to AT&T with your phone.

[Destroyallcubes]

Yeah but uncannier means no contract to most people. Yes you are left with paying off your phone, but at least you can go to AT&T with your phone.

Maybe so but what if ATT sucks in your area? You can't just take it to any carrier. You are stuck. Yes currently sprint will buy your contract, which may actual reap a huge benefit if this happens. Just my thought is a 2 year contract isn't as bad in my view, as device installment plans are also good. Customers should be given the choice. Maybe something to look into Is a device give back program on contracts, where sprint waives a majority fee of cancellation if the device is returned unharmed, in sellable condition. I'm sure a system like above could be possible.

[milan03]

Maybe so but what if ATT sucks in your area? You can't just take it to any carrier. You are stuck. Yes currently sprint will buy your contract, which may actual reap a huge benefit if this happens. Just my thought is a 2 year contract isn't as bad in my view, as device installment plans are also good. Customers should be given the choice. Maybe something to look into Is a device give back program on contracts, where sprint waives a majority fee of cancellation if the device is returned unharmed, in sellable condition. I'm sure a system like above could be possible.

This rendered your previous post invalid, didn't it?

 

Point is, T-Mobile is giving consumers every right to leave the carrier at any point, and as you've stated Sprint will also gladly buy your existing contract if needed. There are quite a few options for T-Mobile subscribers.

[Destroyallcubes]

This rendered your previous post invalid, didn't it?

 

Point is, T-Mobile is giving consumers every right to leave the carrier at any point, and as you've stated Sprint will also gladly buy your existing contract if needed. There are quite a few options for T-Mobile subscribers.

I meant sprint offer that not T-Mobile. But it does stick you with a possible hefty phone device cost. Not always but can. But it does leave Verizon out of Those T-Mobile sub's(which is not a bad thing). It allows them to go anywhere, but doesn't a subsidized Phone? Just pay an ETF and you are good? To me it is better dependent on how long you've had them. If you have them 3 months for T-Mobile, making the minimum Payments on your phone , you could be stuck -$500+ in the hole, compared to a lesser -$330 in the hole. But opposite happens when its closer to the end of 2 years

[jbom]

True which could be the while reasoning of "uncarrier" attract a buyer, then jack up rates, cause not everyone can leave and be stuck with several hundred dollars of phone cost left.

Lol where do you pull these opinions out of? Jack up rates... god 

[Destroyallcubes]

Lol where do you pull these opinions out of? Jack up rates... god 

More poking fun at the "what if..." Ideas. Always am the "what if..." Guy.

[EvanA]

Another thing about AWS-3 is that T-Mobile has to add support to phones for band 10. I don't think any of their current devices support it, so it won't even be usable by many people.

[S4GRU]

It will take some time to get AWS 3 ready, usable and deployed. At least they have the band approved in advance. That helps. It will be some time before AWS 3 gets deployed anywhere and have devices able to use it.

 

But I'd pursue it if I was Tmo...in markets where they currently can't achieve 15-20MHz channels now. So they can provide a more consistent experience. Tmo doesn't need to make a big AWS3 purchase. Just a carefully crafted and thoughtful purchase.

 

Besides, popular consensus is that AWS3 is all about AT&T. They are the ones who desperately need it. And I wouldn't be surprised to see VZW make some strategic plays for it in key markets where they may need to bolster capacity soon. Our XLTE speeds are steadily dropping and no longer anything special.

[Paynefanbro]

And I wouldn't be surprised to see VZW make some strategic plays for it in key markets where they may need to bolster capacity soon. Our XLTE speeds are steadily dropping and no longer anything special.

 

That's what happened in NYC. Verizon's XLTE have steadily declined to about 20Mbps on average. That's down from the 60Mbps+ that I used to see when they first began deployment. I haven't tested in Boston though, since I've been here.

[NYC126]

Att and Verizon will clean the closet with that AWS-3.

[NYC126]

Verizon xlte around my home used to be 78 down and 35 up,but it dropped to 43 Down and 24 up.

 

Data demand continue to increase regardless if that particular wireless company only offer data caps. That is why companies need to build a big fat pipe especially the ones offering unlimited data.

[milan03]

That's what happened in NYC. Verizon's XLTE have steadily declined to about 20Mbps on average. That's down from the 60Mbps+ that I used to see when they first began deployment. I haven't tested in Boston though, since I've been here.

Keep in mind that XLTE in NYC never had full 150Mbps backhaul bandwidth provisioned for that capacity layer. It used to max out at ~80Mbps since day one, as they were pooling 150Mbps between 20MHz B4 and 10MHz B13... So, they could easily re-provision the backhaul for more bandwidth per sector, and that alone will double the existing peak rates.

 

Not sure if they will any time soon, because they only guarantee 5-12Mbps on the downlink.

[NYC126]

Regional Economic Area Grouping (REAG) – There are 12 REAGs

Channel blocks are groups of frequencies. The channel blocks for AWS licenses are:

 

A Block: 1710-1720 and 2110-2120 (20 MHz) – issued by CMAs

B Block: 1720-1730 and 2120-2130 (20 MHz) – issued by EAs

C Block: 1730-1735 and 2130-2135 (10 MHz) – issued by EAs

D Block: 1735-1740 and 2135-2140 (10 MHz) – issued by REAGs

E Block: 1740-1745 and 2140-2145 (10 MHz) – issued by REAGs

F Block: 1745-1755 and 2145-2155 (20 MHz) – issued by REAGs

Auctions

[Conan Kudo]

It will take some time to get AWS 3 ready, usable and deployed. At least they have the band approved in advance. That helps. It will be some time before AWS 3 gets deployed anywhere and have devices able to use it.

 

But I'd pursue it if I was Tmo...in markets where they currently can't achieve 15-20MHz channels now. So they can provide a more consistent experience. Tmo doesn't need to make a big AWS3 purchase. Just a carefully crafted and thoughtful purchase.

 

Besides, popular consensus is that AWS3 is all about AT&T. They are the ones who desperately need it. And I wouldn't be surprised to see VZW make some strategic plays for it in key markets where they may need to bolster capacity soon. Our XLTE speeds are steadily dropping and no longer anything special.

Verizon already has AWS E and F blocks in Pennington, SD, so your capacity drops are due to backhaul, not spectrum. 

 

While the popular consensus is that AWS-3 will be all about AT&T, I think AT&T itself doesn't care so much anymore, since it has reconstructed so much of its AWS footprint through acquisitions. Of course, AWS-3 would enable AT&T to roll out 15MHz or 20MHz channels, so that is an incentive. But AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile don't have strong incentives to bid nationally on AWS-3. AT&T might if it's easy, but another company could come in and bid nationally fairly easily.

 

Regional Economic Area Grouping (REAG) – There are 12 REAGs

Channel blocks are groups of frequencies. The channel blocks for AWS licenses are:

 

A Block: 1710-1720 and 2110-2120 (20 MHz) – issued by CMAs

B Block: 1720-1730 and 2120-2130 (20 MHz) – issued by EAs

C Block: 1730-1735 and 2130-2135 (10 MHz) – issued by EAs

D Block: 1735-1740 and 2135-2140 (10 MHz) – issued by REAGs

E Block: 1740-1745 and 2140-2145 (10 MHz) – issued by REAGs

F Block: 1745-1755 and 2145-2155 (20 MHz) – issued by REAGs

Auctions

 

Those are AWS-1 blocks.

 

AWS-3 paired blocks are:

G Block: 1755-1760 and 2155-2160 (10 MHz) - issued by CMAs

H Block: 1760-1765 and 2160-2165 (10 MHz) - issued by EAs

I Block: 1765-1770 and 2165-2170 (10 MHz) - issued by EAs

J Block: 1770-1780 and 2170-2180 (20 MHz) - issued by EAs

 

The FCC mandated full AWS-1 and AWS-3 interop, so existing 3GPP band 10 isn't allowed to be used. A new band is being studied now, and should be defined and declared by the end of Q1 2015. The 3GPP study item is supposed to be complete by the end of this year.