T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[WiWavelength]

That's what WCDMA+ is for. Same voice capacity in 1/3 the spectrum.

 

Not really.  W-CDMA+ does not shrink down the existing 5 MHz FDD bandwidth of a W-CDMA carrier.  Rather, it just uses some radio link improvements and a much lower bit rate (i.e. likely lower quality) codec to free up added capacity in that same 5 MHz FDD.

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

Not really. W-CDMA+ does not shrink down the existing 5 MHz FDD bandwidth of a W-CDMA carrier. Rather, it just uses some radio link improvements and a much lower bit rate (i.e. likely lower quality) codec to free up added capacity in that same 5 MHz FDD.

 

AJ

*effective spectrum.

[WiWavelength]

*effective spectrum.

 

And it may not matter.  The point of W-CDMA+ seems to be to free up more data capacity within a given W-CDMA carrier.  But who is going to be using W-CDMA based HSPA+ for data a few years from now?  Outside of third world countries, most all will have moved on to LTE.

 

So, W-CDMA+ will then be for added voice capacity?  Well, who actually talks on the phone that much anymore?  Not me.  I often go a month without using a single minute of voice airtime.

 

Thus, in many markets, a single W-CDMA carrier -- unloaded of nearly all of its data that has gone over to LTE -- may be enough voice capacity for present day usage.

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

And it may not matter. The point of W-CDMA+ seems to be to free up more data capacity within a given W-CDMA carrier. But who is going to be using W-CDMA based HSPA+ for data a few years from now? Outside of third world countries, most all will have moved on to LTE.

 

So, W-CDMA+ will then be for added voice capacity? Well, who actually talks on the phone that much anymore? Not me. I often go a month without using a single minute of voice airtime.

 

Thus, in many markets, a single W-CDMA carrier -- unloaded of nearly all of its data that has gone over to LTE -- may be enough voice capacity for present day usage.

 

AJ

Up above (I think) Neal said WCDMA+ will be useful in freeing up voice capacity so that GSM can be replaced by WCDMA+ as the new baseline for M2M.

[ericdabbs]

That's what WCDMA+ is for. Same voice capacity in 1/3 the spectrum.

Look at the Qualcomm WCDMA+ presentation on their website.

I know WCDMA+ won't be available for years but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I think if WCDMA+ was available now then Tmobile should upgrade to it because its still a few years away from VoLTE. However given that it wont' be available until 2016, I don't think its worth the cost for Tmobile to upgrade to it since they will just be prolonging the process of shifting customers off of GSM/WCDMA.  Because at that point its going to take Tmobile another 1-2 years to upgrade its network to WCDMA+ and I know that Tmobile in the future wants to refarm the PCS spectrum to add LTE capacity.  I am hoping by 2016-2017 that significant progress in VoLTE is to the point where carriers can begin shifting some voice traffic onto LTE.  The bottom line is that the majority of major carriers worldwide are shifting to LTE as the technology of choice and only using the current WCDMA/HSPA+ as a stop gap.  Maybe the 3rd world countries will use WCDMA+.

[maximus1987/lou99]

I think if WCDMA+ was available now then Tmobile should upgrade to it because its still a few years away from VoLTE. However given that it wont' be available until 2016, I don't think its worth the cost for Tmobile to upgrade to it since they will just be prolonging the process of shifting customers off of GSM/WCDMA. Because at that point its going to take Tmobile another 1-2 years to upgrade its network to WCDMA+ and I know that Tmobile in the future wants to refarm the PCS spectrum to add LTE capacity. I am hoping by 2016-2017 that significant progress in VoLTE is to the point where carriers can begin shifting some voice traffic onto LTE. The bottom line is that the majority of major carriers worldwide are shifting to LTE as the technology of choice and only using the current WCDMA/HSPA+ as a stop gap. Maybe the 3rd world countries will use WCDMA+.

There's always gonna be some people who only use dumb phones AND M2M always need the lowest cost solution. That means WCDMA+ will still be useful to TMO.

 

Think of the data capacity in 5 MHz FDD: for wcdma vs EDGE: 21mbps vs ???1mbps???

 

 

Edited July 27, 2013 by asdf190

[ericdabbs]

There's always gonna be some people who only use dumb phones AND M2M always need the lowest cost solution. That means WCDMA+ will still be useful to TMO. Think of the data capacity in 5 MHz FDD: for wcdma vs EDGE: 21mbps vs ???1mbps???

 

I am not arguing that WCDMA+ is useful or not.  Of course it can be useful but you are making it sound like WCDMA currently is crap and can't be used as a stop gap until WCDMA can be rolled off.  The point is LTE is the future for Tmobile and not WCDMA/HSPA+ Advanced.  Remember a few years ago during the ATT/Tmobile merger that Tmobile stated that they were not interested in LTE and they felt that HSPA+ was doing the job.  Well guess what shortly after Tmobile caved and jumped onto the LTE bandwagon.  

 

Also do we even know if ATT is interested in WCDMA+?  If not then that is going to be a huge problem getting good pricing for equipment for the US spectrum bands.

[WiWavelength]

Think of the data capacity in 5 MHz FDD: for wcdma vs EDGE: 21mbps vs ???1mbps???

 

No, that is not a fair comparison.  Give a single, isolated EDGE sector a full 5 MHz FDD.  Then, the max aggregate data rate for eight time slots per channel across 25 channels is 12 Mbps.  That is a highly unlikely max in the real world, but 21 Mbps out of a single W-CDMA carrier is in the same boat.

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

No, that is not a fair comparison. Give a single, isolated EDGE sector a full 5 MHz FDD. Then, the max aggregate data rate for eight time slots per channel across 25 channels is 12 Mbps. That is a highly unlikely max in the real world, but 21 Mbps out of a single W-CDMA carrier is in the same boat.

 

AJ

Theoretical 21 is still higher than theoretical 12

[WiWavelength]

Theoretical 21 is still higher than theoretical 12

 

As a ratio, 21:12 is a lot smaller than 21:1.  Get my point?

 

Newer airlinks do not create greater capacity through magic.  Rather, they tend to trade off reliability, robustness, and per user equality for higher peak speeds.

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

As a ratio, 21:12 is a lot smaller than 21:1. Get my point?

 

Newer airlinks do not create greater capacity through magic. Rather, they tend to trade off reliability, robustness, and per user equality for higher peak speeds.

 

AJ

What about more efficient modulation and channel coding?

[WiWavelength]

What about more efficient modulation and channel coding?

As I said, less robust, unequal per user.

 

AJ

[4ktvs]

As I said, less robust, unequal per user.

 

AJ

I think it would be cool as mess to see EDGE get 12mbs.

[maximus1987/lou99]

I think it would be cool as mess to see EDGE get 12mbs.

That's the cumulative capacity of channels in 5MHz FDD not even the peak theoretical rate of ONE user.

That's across 25 (said AJ) EDGE channels.

That's 480kbits/sec per channel.

 

Edited July 28, 2013 by asdf190

[bigsnake49]

That's the cumulative capacity of channels in 5MHz FDD not even the peak theoretical rate of ONE user. That's across 25 (said AJ) EDGE channels. That's 480kbits/sec per channel.

 

Of course given that the best frequency reuse pattern you can have on Edge is n=3, you will never be able to achieve 12Mbps. Unless it's a single site with a single sector way out in the middle of nowhere.

[maximus1987/lou99]

Would vohspa be useful to TMO?

 

http://d1sxb0xfyrci7y.cloudfront.net/asset_files/0003/2273/891cdf10-7214-012f-93a4-12313804dc61/v1/Web_Voice_Evolution_Tech_Exe_042612_original.pdf

[koiulpoi]

vohspa

Gesundheit.

[Keitarou]

Oh he will. When Sprint debuts 40 MHz TDD. In the sponsor section, will the TDD sites be marked?

 

Probably in another 2-3 years...

 

For majority of us who live inside cities, T-Mobile did a fine Job. Give credit where it's due. For those who live outside of cities, yeah... no choice but to wait for Sprint.

[Paynefanbro]

I thought Clear said that they plan going 40Mhz TDD next year by using carrier aggregation.

[Moropo]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/t-mobile-launch-wider-2x10-mhz-channels-lte-year-end/2013-07-30?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Editor&utm_campaign=SocialMedia

 

"T-Mobile US will expand the spectrum channels it is using for LTE service to 2x10 MHz in the vast majority of the major markets across the United States by year-end, the company said."

 

In the whole article they never specifically mention the markets. Does anyone know if Miami will be one of them?

[WiWavelength]

In the whole article they never specifically mention the markets. Does anyone know if Miami will be one of them?

 

I know.

 

AJ

[Moropo]

I know.

 

AJ

 

Could you tell us? ... you funny sir

[WiWavelength]

Could you tell us? ... you funny sir

 

I could.

 

AJ

[JohnHovah]

I could.

 

AJ

LOL. Is this a question of ability or permission?! I thought I was a dick  /S   

[WiWavelength]

LOL. Is this a question of ability or permission?! I thought I was a dick  /S   

 

The issue is that I have an upcoming article to be published on a fairly well known tech site.  I cannot spill all the beans on this subject.  So, I play coy...

 

AJ