T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[Conan Kudo]

But the article?... Sprint says it's keeping 1xRTT for years, certainly more than the 3 years that you're claiming. Even ATT is keeping GSM for 3 more years.

The US isn't the whole world, and there are certainly exceptions. Sprint plans to retain 1xRTT on ESMR through 2020, and T-Mobile plans to retain skeleton GSM allocations on PCS through 2020 as well. Most Asian operators are in the process or have already replaced 2G networks with UMTS and LTE, though. European operators began that process this year and will continue to do it for the next several years. Latin America will straggle a bit, but I imagine that it'll get there fairly quickly, too.

 

Incidentally, Sprint and other CDMA operators aren't really experiencing a good level of take-up on this. Most M2M product developers realize that it would be a poor decision to use CDMA in their products. No one wants to go through the "OnStar hell" with their customers.

[maximus1987/lou99]

The US isn't the whole world, and there are certainly exceptions. Sprint plans to retain 1xRTT on ESMR through 2020, and T-Mobile plans to retain skeleton GSM allocations on PCS through 2020 as well. Most Asian operators are in the process or have already replaced 2G networks with UMTS and LTE, though. European operators began that process this year and will continue to do it for the next several years. Latin America will straggle a bit, but I imagine that it'll get there fairly quickly, too.

 

Incidentally, Sprint and other CDMA operators aren't really experiencing a good level of take-up on this. Most M2M product developers realize that it would be a poor decision to use CDMA in their products. No one wants to go through the "OnStar hell" with their customers.

If Sprint takes away the 1.25 MHz FDD 1xRTT on ESMR, what will it replace it with?

1.4MHz FDD LTE?

[maximus1987/lou99]

The US isn't the whole world, and there are certainly exceptions. Sprint plans to retain 1xRTT on ESMR through 2020, and T-Mobile plans to retain skeleton GSM allocations on PCS through 2020 as well. Most Asian operators are in the process or have already replaced 2G networks with UMTS and LTE, though. European operators began that process this year and will continue to do it for the next several years. Latin America will straggle a bit, but I imagine that it'll get there fairly quickly, too.

 

Incidentally, Sprint and other CDMA operators aren't really experiencing a good level of take-up on this. Most M2M product developers realize that it would be a poor decision to use CDMA in their products. No one wants to go through the "OnStar hell" with their customers.

What would Sprint replace the 1x ESMR?

1.4MHz FDD LTE?

[ericdabbs]

If Sprint takes away the 1.25 MHz FDD 1xRTT on ESMR, what will it replace it with?

1.4MHz FDD LTE?

 

Actually I looked at the Samsung 800 RRU specs and they only support 3 and 5 MHz LTE bandwidths.  So I don't think they will deploy 1.4 MHz LTE carriers.  The 800 RRU can support 2 LTE carriers and I would love to see Sprint deploy two 3x3 LTE carriers rather than just one 5x5 LTE carrier.  I assume the Ericcson and ALU 800 RRUs have similar specs to only support 3 and 5 MHz LTE bandwidths.

 

Too bad I don't have the document in front of me.  I know Lilotimz has a copy and I saw it yesterday.

[lilotimz]

Actually I looked at the Samsung 800 RRU specs and they only support 3 and 5 MHz LTE bandwidths.  So I don't think they will deploy 1.4 MHz LTE carriers.  The 800 RRU can support 2 LTE carriers and I would love to see Sprint deploy two 3x3 LTE carriers rather than just one 5x5 LTE carrier.  I assume the Ericcson and ALU 800 RRUs have similar specs to only support 3 and 5 MHz LTE bandwidths.

 

Too bad I don't have the document in front of me.  I know Lilotimz has a copy and I saw it yesterday.

 

[milan03]

Today I've visited T-Mobile's 2x10Mhz test site in NYC, and it looks good to me

 

[maximus1987/lou99]

Today I've visited T-Mobile's 2x10Mhz test site in NYC, and it looks good to me

How is that site still using that spectrum? I thought it's Verizon's.

[milan03]

How is that site still using that spectrum? I thought it's Verizon's.

It's not the same as that Press event a few weeks ago. This is outdoors, running on E + lower F block that T-Mobile owns. Clearly, they've cannibalized their HSPA+42 down to HSPA+21 in order for this to work, but the network performance is stellar. 

It's only a single site at the west side highway, and radius is one block. Once you're out of the bubble, you're back to 5Mhz LTE and back to HSPA+42.

[4ktvs]

Today I've visited T-Mobile's 2x10Mhz test site in NYC, and it looks good to me

 

I think that's the fastest 10x10 LTE speed test I have ever seen. Didn't even think hitting 73 would even happen real world ever. (I know the max is 75, but I didn't think even with only your self using it that more than 70 was going to happen.)

[maximus1987/lou99]

It's not the same as that Press event a few weeks ago. This is outdoors, running on E + lower F block that T-Mobile owns. Clearly, they've cannibalized their HSPA+42 down to HSPA+21 in order for this to work, but the network performance is stellar.

It's only a single site at the west side highway, and radius is one block. Once you're out of the bubble, you're back to 5Mhz LTE and back to HSPA+42.

Surely they must know without a doubt whether they can afford to go to HSPA+21 on AWS, right? As long as they add a h+21 channel on PCS everything should even out?

[maximus1987/lou99]

I think that's the fastest 10x10 LTE speed test I have ever seen. Didn't even think hitting 73 would even happen real world ever. (I know the max is 75, but I didn't think even with only your self using it that more than 70 was going to happen.)

According to TMUS slides, New York will have 25x25 of AWS. Once Metro's 1x is killed, TMUS will be able to have 20x20 LTE and a 5x5 HSPA+21 on AWS.

 

Double those (peak) speeds!

Edited July 24, 2013 by asdf190

[milan03]

According to TMUS slides, New York will have 25x25 of AWS. Once Metro's 1x is killed, TMUS will be able to have 20x20 LTE and a 5x5 HSPA+21 on AWS. Double those (peak) speeds!

Yup 150Mbps coming in 2015. Dallas should have 2x20Mhz this year!

Also verizon should have 2x20Mhz in a lot of places this year.

[4ktvs]

Yup 150Mbps coming in 2015. Dallas should have 2x20Mhz this year!

Also verizon should have 2x20Mhz in a lot of places this year.

Will the RDU area get 2x20Mhz from T-moblie or Verizon this year? I know Verizon needs to fill in some slow areas yesterday, but it didn't sound like they were going to do much with band 4 this year, but I could be mistaken. 

[maximus1987/lou99]

Yup 150Mbps coming in 2015. Dallas should have 2x20Mhz this year!

Also verizon should have 2x20Mhz in a lot of places this year.

Now how about upgrading those 15k rural towers?

[iansltx]

It's not the same as that Press event a few weeks ago. This is outdoors, running on E + lower F block that T-Mobile owns. Clearly, they've cannibalized their HSPA+42 down to HSPA+21 in order for this to work, but the network performance is stellar. 

It's only a single site at the west side highway, and radius is one block. Once you're out of the bubble, you're back to 5Mhz LTE and back to HSPA+42.

 

Still, those are some phenomenal speeds. Right near what you'd expect for the theoretical max for FD 10x10. But that's what happens when you're effectively on a small cell, using a tech that's closer to WiFi than a traditional WWAN.

 

That said, I'm sure that that will slow down under load, and Sprint will be able to pass that with 2*20 TD-LTE

[iansltx]

Now how about upgrading those 15k rural towers?

 

Takes more effort to string/provision fiber to a rural cell site than to move an urban site from 5x5 to 20x20, if you own the spectrum to do it.

[milan03]

Still, those are some phenomenal speeds. Right near what you'd expect for the theoretical max for FD 10x10. But that's what happens when you're effectively on a small cell, using a tech that's closer to WiFi than a traditional WWAN.

 

That said, I'm sure that that will slow down under load, and Sprint will be able to pass that with 2*20 TD-LTE

It was actually a macro on the roof top.

 

[4ktvs]

Takes more effort to string/provision fiber to a rural cell site than to move an urban site from 5x5 to 20x20, if you own the spectrum to do it.

It would be nice if they at lest upgrade the ones right out side the city's like the one that takes care of every one on the edge of town. Soon though a nice 200-400k home area is being built so T-mobile should think about taking care of them if nothing else. 

[Moropo]

HSPA+21 requires 5x5 and HSPA+42 requires 10x10? Just making sure.

[milan03]

HSPA+21 requires 5x5 and HSPA+42 requires 10x10? Just making sure.

Correct.

[4ktvs]

I thought that HSPA+42 was DC than needing more spectrum?

 

Or does it need two cells and more spectrum?

[bucdenny]

Takes more effort to string/provision fiber to a rural cell site than to move an urban site from 5x5 to 20x20, if you own the spectrum to do it.

 

Why not just do microwaves? Can at least bring pretty decent speeds...

[maximus1987/lou99]

I thought that HSPA+42 was DC than needing more spectrum?

 

Or does it need two cells and more spectrum?

DC means dual carrier. One "carrier" is 5x5.

[reedacus25]

I thought that HSPA+42 was DC than needing more spectrum?

 

Or does it need two cells and more spectrum?

When you see HSPA+42 it is technically DC-HSDPA. It is two HSPA carriers bonded together in the downlink. That's why the downlink data rate "doubles," but the uplink stays relatively low.

 

But, because it is 2 HSPA carriers, it actually has 2 voice carriers, increasing voice capacity as well as data capacity.

[4ktvs]

When you see HSPA+42 it is technically DC-HSDPA. It is two HSPA carriers bonded together in the downlink. That's why the downlink data rate "doubles," but the uplink stays relatively low.

 

But, because it is 2 HSPA carriers, it actually has 2 voice carriers, increasing voice capacity as well as data capacity.

Well I would have to guess that's likely why they waited to deploy LTE due to it not being that much faster and not increasing voice capacity.