T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[Rawvega]

Does it make sense for TMUS to upgrade to HSPA+84 and higher?

 

 

No.

[bigsnake49]

In other news:

 

T-Mobile US (NYSE:TMUS) brand MetroPCS will start selling GSM phones that work on T-Mobile's network as soon as June 12, according to a PhoneArena report.

The report, citing an unnamed source, said MetroPCS will soon begin selling Samsung Electronics' Galaxy Exhibit and the LG Electronics' Optimus L9. The phones will have support for GSM/EDGE service as well as HSPA+ on T-Mobile's network. T-Mobile's larger goal is to convert MetroPCS CDMA customers over to its network over the next several years following their merger, which was completed last month.

Additionally, the report said on June 12 MetroPCS will launch a program to allow customers to bring their own unlocked GSM phones to its service. The report said Apple's (NASDAQ:AAPL) iPhone, Google (NASDAQ:GOOG) Android phones and (NASDAQ:MSFT) Windows Phones will be supported, but curiously BlackBerry (NASDAQ:BBRY) phones will not be supported.

 

A MetroPCS spokesman declined to comment and a T-Mobile spokesman did not respond to a request for comment.

Speaking at an investor conference in mid-May T-Mobile CFO Braxton Carter said T-Mobile was "weeks away" from seeding HSPA+ and LTE smartphones into MetroPCS distribution channels. T-Mobile plans to expand the footprint where the MetroPCS brand offers service by around 100 million POPs over the next six quarters, he said.

Read more: Rumor Mill: T-Mobile's MetroPCS to start selling and accepting GSM phones - FierceWireless http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/rumor-mill-t-mobiles-metropcs-start-selling-and-accepting-gsm-phones/2013-06-04#ixzz2VGr5GFXK 

[Mobilesolutions]

Sprint will let them have Clearwire if they come to an agreement with T-Mobile.

That's speculation.

And i would absolutely secure Clearwire before even thinking on to absorb T-mobile.

[maximus1987/lou99]

 

 

Does it make sense for TMUS to upgrade to HSPA+84 and higher?

 

 

 

No.

Was looking for more than that.

[maximus1987/lou99]

 

 

 

Sprint will let them have Clearwire if they come to an agreement with T-Mobile.

No, they won't. Ever. Never, ever, ever! Clearwire is Sprint's differentiator. No other carrier will have so much spectrum.

If Sprint goes for Tmobile, they'll just be similar in AWS holdings to Verizon; how will that deliver a knockout to the Duo?

 

Sprint already has enough mid-band spectrum. Go in the DL section and you'll see an excel that lists markets in which Sprint can already launch a second 5x5 PCS LTE right NOW.

Verizon got good mileage from 20MHz at 700MHz spacing so imagine how long Sprint can go with 20MHz at 1900MHz spacing.

Verizon won round one, the coverage battle, but capacity is round two.

 

Sprint needs a little more 600MHz (about 10MHz) to augment its motley SMR and Clearwire.

[Mobilesolutions]

Was looking for more than that.

I see no point in it, If i was T-mobile i would refarm HSPA spectrum for Lte here in about 2-3 years when HSPA phones are no longer sold and not required to be supported. 

[maximus1987/lou99]

Dish trying to get a deal going with Deutsche Telekom. My guess is they're angry at Sprint for not letting them have Clear.

Dish needs a deployment of their AWS-4 holdings ASAP. How would Clear help? Their network only covers 130million.

[ericdabbs]

No, they won't. Ever. Never, ever, ever! Clearwire is Sprint's differentiator. No other carrier will have so much spectrum.

If Sprint goes for Tmobile, they'll just be similar in AWS holdings to Verizon; how will that deliver a knockout to the Duo?

 

Sprint already has enough mid-band spectrum. Go in the DL section and you'll see an excel that lists markets in which Sprint can already launch a second 5x5 PCS LTE right NOW.

Verizon got good mileage from 20MHz at 700MHz spacing so imagine how long Sprint can go with 20MHz at 1900MHz spacing.

Verizon won round one, the coverage battle, but capacity is round two.

 

Sprint needs a little more 600MHz (about 10MHz) to augment its motley SMR and Clearwire.

 

I disagree that Sprint has enough mid band spectrum at 1900 MHz.  There are still plenty of markets that have < 20 MHz of PCS spectrum (not counting G block) that can use more capacity relief. Since the PCS band is Sprint's main band for voice and data, Sprint should still strive to get at least another 20 MHz of PCS in all markets. Bidding aggressively for nationwide PCS H block spectrum licenses will be a good start.  I am not going to bank on 600 MHz spectrum as the savior since we don't know how willing the TV broadcasters are going to give up their spectrum.  It can be a small band which wont' do too much for capacity relief.

[bigsnake49]

No, they won't. Ever. Never, ever, ever! Clearwire is Sprint's differentiator. No other carrier will have so much spectrum.

If Sprint goes for Tmobile, they'll just be similar in AWS holdings to Verizon; how will that deliver a knockout to the Duo?

 

Sprint already has enough mid-band spectrum. Go in the DL section and you'll see an excel that lists markets in which Sprint can already launch a second 5x5 PCS LTE right NOW.

Verizon got good mileage from 20MHz at 700MHz spacing so imagine how long Sprint can go with 20MHz at 1900MHz spacing.

Verizon won round one, the coverage battle, but capacity is round two.

 

Sprint needs a little more 600MHz (about 10MHz) to augment its motley SMR and Clearwire.

 

Sprint was trying to wash their hands of Clearwire, Clearwire was trying to sell spectrum (and nobody was biting). All of a sudden, Dish wants to buy Clearwire and the strategic partners in Clearwire (cable cos) freak out. If Sprint want to compete with the Big Two, they need scale. Otherwise, if they try to compete with T-Mobile, they will just kill each other. Sprint was talking to T-Mobile before the abortive AT&T attempt and they were talking to them before T-Mobile absorbed MetroPCS. You might not think that they should merge with them but Sprint is definitely interested.

Edited June 4, 2013 by bigsnake49

[ericdabbs]

Sprint was trying to wash their hands of Clearwire, Clearwire was trying to sell spectrum (and nobody was biting). If Sprint want to compete with the other two, they need scale. Otherwise, if they try to compete with T-Mobile, they will just kill each other. Sprint was talking to T-Mobile before the abortive AT&T attempt and they were talking to them before T-Mobile absorbed MetroPCS. You might not think that they should merge with them but Sprint is definitely interested.

 

I noticed your posts seem to double quote the person you are quoting.  What is up with that?

[bigsnake49]

I disagree that Sprint has enough mid band spectrum at 1900 MHz.  There are still plenty of markets that have < 20 MHz of PCS spectrum (not counting G block) that can use more capacity relief. Since the PCS band is Sprint's main band for voice and data, Sprint should still strive to get at least another 20 MHz of PCS in all markets. Bidding aggressively for nationwide PCS H block spectrum licenses will be a good start.  I am not going to bank on 600 MHz spectrum as the savior since we don't know how willing the TV broadcasters are going to give up their spectrum.  It can be a small band which wont' do too much for capacity relief.

I agree with you. Sprint needs more PCS spectrum. PCS H will definitely help somewhat.

Edited June 4, 2013 by bigsnake49

[bigsnake49]

I noticed your posts seem to double quote the person you are quoting.  What is up with that?

Hmmm....I wonder why?

[iansltx]

My opinion (and only an opinion): give five years and you'll se a merged Sprint + T-Mobile, sporting quad-band LTE, coming in at a solid #3, maybe even #2, in the US. Sort of like EE has done in the UK (hopefully with lower prices).

 

But that isn't going to happen in the near term. Sprint needs to digest Clearwire and roll out LTE in SMR + 2500 (which might get subleased to Dish for OTT video in return for them buzzing off...and paying hosting fees for AWS-4), and T-Mobile needs to integrate MetroPCS's subs and spectrum...and probably start deploying LTE in PCS A-F (three or four years out, once VoLTE gets hammered down and enough AWS LTE phones are out there that HSPA traffic is light).

[Rawvega]

My opinion (and only an opinion): give five years and you'll se a merged Sprint + T-Mobile, sporting quad-band LTE, coming in at a solid #3, maybe even #2, in the US. Sort of like EE has done in the UK (hopefully with lower prices).

 

 

Quad band...SMR, PCS, AWS & 2.5GHz. So you don't see either company picking up any 600MHz spectrum?

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[iansltx]

Quad band...SMR, PCS, AWS & 2.5GHz. So you don't see either company picking up any 600MHz spectrum?

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

Okay, maybe penta-band. I've been saying that statement since before the noise about 600MHz started.

[Conan Kudo]

Okay, maybe penta-band. I've been saying that statement since before the noise about 600MHz started.

 

I worry about 600MHz. There are a lot of technical problems with it.

 

One major issue is that 600MHz and 700MHz can't be present on the same device with specialized antennas for each, apparently. And using a 700MHz antenna for 600MHz is less than acceptable (though doable).

 

Another major issue is the sheer number of band plans suggested. I still haven't figured out everything about each band plan that has been presented, but the TDD plans are utterly insane (the power levels required and the amount of RF leakage that would have to be permitted would completely screw over nearby bands). Some of the FDD plans have weird duplexing issues, which means that very tightly designed filters would be needed to ensure that Channel 37 doesn't get blown over. Power levels have to be lower than normally expected, which means that cellular density might be slightly higher than expected for 600MHz or even 800MHz deployments.

 

I would much rather see T-Mobile buy the 700MHz Lower A block and use that, instead. It would be cheaper than the auction, and it would be far less of a headache than what 600MHz is shaping up to be.

[iansltx]

700 A has its own issues, namely interference with TV stations. That's why neither Verizon nor AT&T want it. And the fact that 700 A interference zones are primarily urban doesn't help TMo's case for that band in the least.

[maximus1987/lou99]

700 A has its own issues, namely interference with TV stations. That's why neither Verizon nor AT&T want it. And the fact that 700 A interference zones are primarily urban doesn't help TMo's case for that band in the least.

 

To the contrary, TMO is greatly helped as it doesn't need urban 700; it needs rural 700.

[Fraydog]

700 A has its own issues, namely interference with TV stations. That's why neither Verizon nor AT&T want it. And the fact that 700 A interference zones are primarily urban doesn't help TMo's case for that band in the least.

 

The only place where T-Mobile really needs 700 A is rural areas, areas mostly unencumbered by 700 A interference issues.

[maximus1987/lou99]

 

 

700 A has its own issues, namely interference with TV stations. That's why neither Verizon nor AT&T want it. And the fact that 700 A interference zones are primarily urban doesn't help TMo's case for that band in the least.

 

 

The only place where T-Mobile really needs 700 A is rural areas, areas mostly unencumbered by 700 A interference issues.

Could tmobile get an iphone with LTE Band 12?

[Fraydog]

Could tmobile get an iphone with LTE Band 12?

 It depends... I doubt AT&T would be happy, but at this point, Apple is powerful enough to dictate terms to AT&T, not the other way around. 

[maximus1987/lou99]

 

 

Could tmobile get an iphone with LTE Band 12?

 

 

It depends... I doubt AT&T would be happy, but at this point, Apple is powerful enough to dictate terms to AT&T, not the other way around.

If there are truly A interference issues, it'll have to be Band 12+17 on same iPhone.

[Fraydog]

 

Another major issue is the sheer number of band plans suggested. I still haven't figured out everything about each band plan that has been presented, but the TDD plans are utterly insane (the power levels required and the amount of RF leakage that would have to be permitted would completely screw over nearby bands). Some of the FDD plans have weird duplexing issues, which means that very tightly designed filters would be needed to ensure that Channel 37 doesn't get blown over. Power levels have to be lower than normally expected, which means that cellular density might be slightly higher than expected for 600MHz or even 800MHz deployments.

 

If the SoftBank led Sprint buyout of T-Mobile happens, I tend to think that Neville Ray should be the CTO of the combined company, not Stephen Bye, based on Bye's performance on advocating for TD-LTE in the 600 band. When reading the Sprint filings on the 600 MHz plans, immediately red flags with GLONASS went up in my head.

 

If Sprint would join up on T-Mobile's band plan, while it's not perfect either, they'd at least have the power of pooling their resources to lobby together against the Twin Bells. 

[Conan Kudo]

 It depends... I doubt AT&T would be happy, but at this point, Apple is powerful enough to dictate terms to AT&T, not the other way around. 

T-Mobile is powerful enough to dictate terms to Apple in terms of banding support. The agreement was negotiated as an amendment to Deutsche Telekom's global Apple device procurement agreement. Deutsche Telekom is definitely more powerful than AT&T.

 

 

The only place where T-Mobile really needs 700 A is rural areas, areas mostly unencumbered by 700 A interference issues.

 

 

Exactly. And any Band 12 device can support Band 17 through software, since Band 17 is a subset of Band 12. So AT&T LTE roaming would still be possible.

[ChadBroChillz]

I disagree that Sprint has enough mid band spectrum at 1900 MHz.  There are still plenty of markets that have < 20 MHz of PCS spectrum (not counting G block) that can use more capacity relief. Since the PCS band is Sprint's main band for voice and data, Sprint should still strive to get at least another 20 MHz of PCS in all markets. Bidding aggressively for nationwide PCS H block spectrum licenses will be a good start.  I am not going to bank on 600 MHz spectrum as the savior since we don't know how willing the TV broadcasters are going to give up their spectrum.  It can be a small band which wont' do too much for capacity relief.

 

At least another 20Mhz in all markets? I think anything over 40Mhz(including G) is overkill in markets where Clearwire has 50-60Mhz of continuous spectrum. 1xAdvanced has the ability to be configured to provide 4x the capacity over the same area as current 1x,  I do not believe Sprint will need to add any more 1x carriers, especially with the 1x carrier on the 800Mhz. LTE will distribute the burden off the PCS spectrum onto the BRS and 800Mhz Spectrum. 10Mhz of SMR + 20Mhz of PCS + 40Mhz of BRS is a ton of capacity. Verizon is going to be stuck with 20Mhz of 700 and only another 20-40Mhz of AWS.  Tmobile does not currently have any options outside their AWS spectrum, if it were to get burdened.