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Network Vision on 1x Only Towers


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I apologize if this question has been asked already, but I couldn't necessarily find it if it has.

 

Well, my question concerns mainly rural towers that are 1x ONLY, as in they don't transmit a 3G signal. In many rural portions of Pennsylvania (where I frequent), none of my phones (2x LG Viper, HTC Evo Shift, Motorola Photon Q) will receive a 3G signal. According to S4GRU's maps, I am in the "Central Pennsylvania Market". On Sprint's Website, this also says that I am on the "Sprint Nationwide Network". I am specifically concerned about the towers located east of Scranton on I-84, which from my experience have been 1x only. This region is mainly filled with forests, hence the PCS band doesn't penetrate very well.

 

This region (specifically Pike County) has poor service from the major carriers. It was originally controlled by Cellular One, a small provider for the region. AT&T's service here remains at Edge, similarly to Sprint service, which remains at 1x. Verizon originally had no towers here, and relied on roaming partners of Cellular One and Sprint, however, Verizon's PRLs later removed Sprint form the list. Currently, Verizon bought out Cellular One and is converting all the original towers. As of now, I believe Verizon has converted most towers, so they are the best carrier in this location. AT&T probably is second best, even at Edge, as their spectrum penetrates better than Sprint's PCS.

 

Well, my house in this region is not my primary residence, but rather a vacation home. After reading about the Airave that is given to places in poor signal regions, I decided to call Sprint and complain. They sent one to me, and it works fine for all my phones.

 

I am sorry for the long intro, but I felt that it might be necessary for anyone who is looking for information on this region. To my questions:

  1. Will Network Vision impact every single Sprint tower, even ones that have never been upgraded to 3G?
  2. If they are upgraded, will 3G be introduced, or will it just be LTE and 1x?
  3. Will 800MHz come to these rural towers eventually?

Edited by zodiac12345
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1) my understanding is that is a complete network overhaul, all towers (that are not part of iden shutdown or otherwise scheduled for shutdown) will be upgraded. From most of the posts I've read, upgrading backhaul is the part that takes the longest, and no doubt rural/difficult areas are where backhaul is more likely to be delayed further.

 

2) the tower equipment being installed is 'multi-mode' meaning that the equipment will be ready for all the frequency bands that sprint holds, and works with 1.x/3g/lte.

 

3) No idea, but I assume that 800mhz will come to all towers where sprint holds the 800mhz licenses, which I also assume may vary by region.

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There are about 100 towers nationwide according to Mr. Robert that will not be getting network vision. Mostly due to backhaul constraints. Not sure if there is a list floating around here though.

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

That is incorrect. EVERY tower will be getting Network Vision but around 100 towers won't be getting LTE but they will still be overhauled with network vision.

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Not necessarily all of the approximate 100 sites that will not receive LTE will get Network Vision upgrades. Many will. There are varied reasons why sites will not get LTE. Some are because they cannot get upgraded backhaul to the site. Some are because the site location inhibits the physical modifications involved (especially some rooftop and stealth locations). And some are because Sprint could not negotiate acceptable terms with the site owner for the modifications that needed to be done.

 

I think in most instances, sites where LTE cannot be installed, Sprint will look for alternative sites nearby and decommission these sites in the long run.

 

Robert

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  1. Will Network Vision impact every single Sprint tower, even ones that have never been upgraded to 3G?
  2. If they are upgraded, will 3G be introduced, or will it just be LTE and 1x?
  3. Will 800MHz come to these rural towers eventually?

 

  1. Will Network Vision impact every single Sprint tower, even ones that have never been upgraded to 3G?
    Yes. Sprint will be upgrading even 1x only sites to include 3G EVDO and LTE. As referenced above, there are just under 100 sites that will not be upgraded to LTE. But these are mostly in very rural Western locations that cannot get upgraded backhaul or in redundant urban locations.
  2. If they are upgraded, will 3G be introduced, or will it just be LTE and 1x?
    Post Network Vision, there should no longer be any 1x only sites. Almost every single one of Sprint's 38,000+ native CDMA sites will feature 1xAdvanced/3G EVDO/LTE. However, 1x will travel slightly farther than EVDO and quite a bit farther than LTE from the same site.
  3. Will 800MHz come to these rural towers eventually?
    Yes, in most instances. Sprint is installing CDMA 800 and LTE 800 separately. Sprint is installing CDMA 800 (1x) now during Network Vision in markets where they already have enough iDEN service cleared out, and will continue installing CDMA 800 throughout Network Vision. They will put CDMA 800 on most sites. Starting in late 2013, Sprint will also start adding LTE 800 at approximately 80% of sites. The 20% where they will not are in redundant urban locations and in places where they have 800MHz licensing issues.

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  1. Will Network Vision impact every single Sprint tower, even ones that have never been upgraded to 3G?
    Yes. Sprint will be upgrading even 1x only sites to include 3G EVDO and LTE. As referenced above, there are just under 100 sites that will not be upgraded to LTE. But these are mostly in very rural Western locations that cannot get upgraded backhaul or in redundant urban locations.
  2. If they are upgraded, will 3G be introduced, or will it just be LTE and 1x?
    Post Network Vision, there should no longer be any 1x only sites. Almost every single one of Sprint's 38,000+ native CDMA sites will feature 1xAdvanced/3G EVDO/LTE. However, 1x will travel slightly farther than EVDO and quite a bit farther than LTE from the same site.
  3. Will 800MHz come to these rural towers eventually?
    Yes, in most instances. Sprint is installing CDMA 800 and LTE 800 separately. Sprint is installing CDMA 800 (1x) now during Network Vision in markets where they already have enough iDEN service cleared out, and will continue installing CDMA 800 throughout Network Vision. They will put CDMA 800 on most sites. Starting in late 2013, Sprint will also start adding LTE 800 at approximately 80% of sites. The 20% where they will not are in redundant urban locations and in places where they have 800MHz licensing issues.

 

Sorry to hijack w/noob ?, but I was under the impression that Sprint had very little to no 800 mHz frequency.

I thought they were using 900mHz for LTE deployment...

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Sorry to hijack w/noob ?, but I was under the impression that Sprint had very little to no 800 mHz frequency.

I thought they were using 900mHz for LTE deployment...

 

You have it flipped. Sprint has very little 900mhz, while having 14Mhz of 800SMR nationwide( well except in the southeast where they share some of it with SouthernLINC)

 

sprint_big.jpg

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Wow, my info (or memory)was off.

I was researching US carrier LTE tech, trying to stay informed as to who was likely to provide the best 4G LTE service.

A few articles said that 800 was the ideal, but that AT&T and Verizon owned most of that. After shifting focus from WimMax, Sprint was left to 900 for it's LTE deployment....

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Wow, my info (or memory)was off.

I was researching US carrier LTE tech, trying to stay informed as to who was likely to provide the best 4G LTE service.

A few articles said that 800 was the ideal, but that AT&T and Verizon owned most of that. After shifting focus from WimMax, Sprint was left to 900 for it's LTE deployment....

 

AT&T and Verizon own the majority of the 700mhz block, which is used for LTE, while Sprint is using their 1900mhz and 800mhz for LTE.

 

The way LTE is being deployed for Sprint is slightly different from the competitors. They are deploying LTE on each site, while Verizon and AT&T are deploying as needed (blanket approach).

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You have it flipped. Sprint has very little 900mhz, while having 14Mhz of 800SMR nationwide( well except in the southeast where they share some of it with SouthernLINC)

 

sprint_big.jpg

 

I live in a southern Linc area, and actually my wife has a southern Linc phone. She is an employee of southern company , they are the ones who license that tower usage for their cell phones which are basically Nextel phones with southern Linc name. I'm wondering how southern Linc will be affected by network vision and what will happen to southern Linc when iden is decommissioned? Anyone know?

 

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I live in a southern Linc area, and actually my wife has a southern Linc phone. She is an employee of southern company , they are the ones who license that tower usage for their cell phones which are basically Nextel phones with southern Linc name. I'm wondering how southern Linc will be affected by network vision and what will happen to southern Linc when iden is decommissioned? Anyone know?

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

SouthernLinc network will still function just fine. However, without Nextel iDEN around, the number of devices available for SouthernLinc customers will get lesser and lesser. And SouthernLinc customers will not be able to roam on Sprint Nextel iDEN after June 30, 2013.

 

In the long term, SouthernLinc needs to transition to another PTT technology beyond iDEN. There is a possibility they may get bought out by Sprint. Sprint would really like SL's 800 spectrum in the southeast US.

 

Robert

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I'm not sure they will sell it to Sprint because southern Linc is a collaboration of the companies within southern company: Alabama power, Georgia power, etc covering like, 5 states and they use this on the company premises instead of your standard Motorola two-way radios that you see lots of companies using. I say that u doubt it because southern company wanted to control their coal trains, so guess what.... they bought the train company. Anything they want that could cause them operational loss, they own. They want no other company to be able to cause them downtime on any level, especially power production.

 

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I'm not sure they will sell it to Sprint because southern Linc is a collaboration of the companies within southern company: Alabama power, Georgia power, etc covering like, 5 states and they use this on the company premises instead of your standard Motorola two-way radios that you see lots of companies using. I say that u doubt it because southern company wanted to control their coal trains, so guess what.... they bought the train company. Anything they want that could cause them operational loss, they own. They want no other company to be able to cause them downtime on any level, especially power production.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

Be that as it may, they soon will not be able to get new devices to sell their customers. iDEN is dying. They won't be able to stay with that for much longer. They really only have two choices...sell off SouthernLinc to Sprint or spend a few billion on a brand new network. I guess there is a third option, which is do nothing and sit back and watch it disintegrate into nothing.

 

No one knows what they're going to do for certain. But they are starting to run out of time.

 

Robert

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If you hear anything let me know, but I will say this, as big of a company as southern company is (also taking in southern nuclear), I know behind the scenes they already have something in motion. I mentioned this to my wife just now and she said not having southern Linc would seriously cause the entire plant to have major problems. I know they may not be moving on anything publicly, but they buy licenses for 10 and 20 year periods, nothing like roaming agreements that only go for a year out or sometimes two. Especially considering they have their own branded phones, tech support and even newer android phones available to employees, I don't see them letting themselves be bought, or allowing the service to degrade much, they will likely arrange something similar to the direct connect now app that has been put on the Google play store for transform ultra(but there is talk of the app being opened to other android devices,) but I could be wrong in that. I think they will likely go to a service that is parallel with the new direct connect, which is why this app can let smartphone customers connect with newer direct connect devices.

 

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speaking of the direct connect app, do you know if that app is chipset dependent, or not? Someone posted that they were told the app would only work with the Qualcomm MSM 8655 chip, but like in the galaxy s3, it has the MSM 8960 (I think I got those numbers right), I looked earlier but forgot the exact chip numbers.

 

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SouthernLinc could become a Sprint Rural Alliance Member or Sprint Partner. Sprint would probably give them access to the rest of the SMR800 and 1900mhz. They would be able to offer better phones and have nationwide coverage.

 

However, I feel like the more likely scenario is that they sell the spectrum/towers to sprint for cash and cheaper service.

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We aren't talking about a cash-strapped company here, they aren't going to make a deal like that, one that would uproot the communications of an electrical utility providing millions with power, after the depth that solinc has in the company. I guess you would have to know and see firsthand, but they don't care about money. Just the plant my wife is at employees over 400 folks at that location and they pay the bill for their employees. Southern company has over 26000 employees and they provide these solinc phones to everyone(mostly everyone), so imagine the cost and ask yourself if they wouldn't just make the employee pay 20 bucks a paycheck first before they would sell anything to make money. Considering start pay, entry level is $20/hour most people would not mind paying, but I think they will introduce new devices that do what I mentioned above, I guess we will see soon as it won't be long before she will get an email from the higher ups saying what will happen when iden is taken offline.

 

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Another question, it may be off topic from the talk from SouthernLinc, but that is off topic from the original thread anyway.

 

Why did Sprint skip certain towers from receiving 3G upgrades? Was it simply a money issue, or was there more behind the move to leave a large amount of towers without 3G service?

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[*]Will Network Vision impact every single Sprint tower' date=' even ones that have never been upgraded to 3G?

Yes. Sprint will be upgrading even 1x only sites to include 3G EVDO and LTE. As referenced above, there are just under 100 sites that will not be upgraded to LTE. But these are mostly in very rural Western locations that cannot get upgraded backhaul or in redundant urban locations.

[*']If they are upgraded, will 3G be introduced, or will it just be LTE and 1x?

Post Network Vision, there should no longer be any 1x only sites. Almost every single one of Sprint's 38,000+ native CDMA sites will feature 1xAdvanced/3G EVDO/LTE. However, 1x will travel slightly farther than EVDO and quite a bit farther than LTE from the same site.

[*]Will 800MHz come to these rural towers eventually?

Yes, in most instances. Sprint is installing CDMA 800 and LTE 800 separately. Sprint is installing CDMA 800 (1x) now during Network Vision in markets where they already have enough iDEN service cleared out, and will continue installing CDMA 800 throughout Network Vision. They will put CDMA 800 on most sites. Starting in late 2013, Sprint will also start adding LTE 800 at approximately 80% of sites. The 20% where they will not are in redundant urban locations and in places where they have 800MHz licensing issues.

 

Hi OP, did you not see Roberts answer?

 

Hope this helps.

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We aren't talking about a cash-strapped company here' date=' they aren't going to make a deal like that, one that would uproot the communications of an electrical utility providing millions with power, after the depth that solinc has in the company. I guess you would have to know and see firsthand, but they don't care about money. Just the plant my wife is at employees over 400 folks at that location and they pay the bill for their employees. Southern company has over 26000 employees and they provide these solinc phones to everyone(mostly everyone), so imagine the cost and ask yourself if they wouldn't just make the employee pay 20 bucks a paycheck first before they would sell anything to make money. Considering start pay, entry level is 20/hour most people would not mind paying, but I think they will introduce new devices that do what I mentioned above, I guess we will see soon as it won't be long before she will get an email from the higher ups saying what will happen when iden is taken offline.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2[/quote']

 

Did you read the response from Robert? Southern link has iDEN equipment broadcasting from their cell sites. They need iDEN phones to communicate with the cell sites. Southern link cannot take a GSM or CDMA phone and throw some app on it and use it on their network. They would need to switch the equipment at every cell site. With Sprint shutting down iDEN, the phone manufacturers are not going to build iDEN phones just to sell a few thousand units to southern link unless they charge an exorbitant amount to make it worth it.

 

This leaves southern link with choices. As Robert stated, they can spend billions on upgrading and modernizing their network equipment, as Sprint is doing. They can stay the course and watch their customers leave in droves to other carriers until the network is losing millions of dollars and with the exception of spectrum, completely worthless. Or they can sell to Sprint, or make some partnership.

 

Sprint could probably care less about southern link, they just want their spectrum.

 

And as far as southern company not being "cash strapped, " and not caring about money, they are a business, they are there to make money. They wouldn't have 26000 employees if they made terrible business decisions. Going down with the southern link ship is not a good decision.

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I saw the responses, and to that I say they would upgrade before selling. Like I mentioned, a company that pays for the cellular service that it also provides to its employees isn't going to just let that go away. Not sure hope many thousands have southern Linc but they are available to non southern company employees, they just have some very stringent credit requirements(worse than what Nextel used to be before acquired by Sprint). I never heard of any other company that bought its own cellular towers so it could provide two-way radio operation to its employees. The cellular side isn't monitored either, they don't care what minutes their employees use on minutes used. They only own southern Linc because they didn't have a radio option that would fill their needs as a Nextel-type solution would, considering they have smokestacks that are a couple thousand feet tall to have their mini towers mounted at every plant.

 

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Hi OP, did you not see Roberts answer?

 

Hope this helps.

 

I'm not asking for "why isn't Sprint upgrading my towers first?" or "why isn't Network Vision first installing 3G?"

 

I'm asking why did Sprint leave out a large portion of towers without 3G when upgrading 3G initially in 2006 (not sure about date)? As in why did Sprint not install 3G on every tower before the though of Network Vision and smartphones?

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