Network Vision/LTE - Chicago Market

[JosefTor]

I doubt these issues are going to get better until 800 LTE and/or 2600 get enabled.

 

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[SashilKapur]

What you are seeing is just a capacity issue. 

 

Which is what I was thinking.  Of course I noticed the much healthier upload rate.

So basically it all comes back around to backhaul.  As it always has.  Stoopid temporary backhaul.

[tommym65]

The fact the Dekalb is not a Chicago suburb nor really part of the Chicago metro area is what I am getting at.  Dekalb has more people than my hometown in the south burbs, but a suburb of Chicago with 10K people 20 miles outside of the city is a whole lot different than a town, even of 50K that is 60 miles outside.  Is Dekalb even part of the 950+ "Chicago Metro towers" list from Sprint?  It might not get the same attention based on these arbitrary boundaries, no matter what the size.  I can easily see some sort of Sprint classification of priority based on tower issues, and if so no way Dekalb would get some sort of high prioritization unless it was classified as part of the Chicago metro area.

I might agree in principle, except that it is surrounded by LTE. (Disclaimer: I do not now live nor have I ever lived in or near Dekalb. I did have to bail someone out of jail there, once, however.)

[tommym65]

Are we absolutely sure this is a SNR issue? I haven't been looking at it before but when I look now, I'm getting a healthy 30dB in Humboldt Park. However my speed tests are still pretty bad. Not unusable though. Also, I haven't been having issues with dropped calls or call quality.

 

Your screen shots show capacity limitations, which are becoming more common as more people get on LTE in Chicagoland. This will improve when Sprint can activate 1 or more LTE carriers on USCC spectrum in January, and when 800 LTE becomes available starting (hopefully) any day now (although you will need an iPhone 5c or 5s or a tri-band phone or hotspot to see 800 LTE). And it's probably not backhaul related, as Sprint won't turn on LTE until either fiber or microwave backhaul is in service, as both mhammett and I know all too well from our experience in Dekalb and Crystal Lake.

 

Other people are reporting signal-to-noise ratios very close to zero, even with strong RSRPs: This is likely caused by something electrical or electronic actually interfering with the LTE signal, and likely has little or nothing to do with traffic or capacity.

 

That's why I asked in an earlier post if anyone in the city itself had seen SNR improvements, or if things were just as bad. Certainly Sprint's network engineers are completely aware of the problem, and if it is caused by another carrier (either TMO or USCC), they would know who is causing the problem, and Sprint would contact the other carrier, and the problem would go away quickly, before the hypothetical other carrier faced fines and sanctions from the FCC.

 

(Your screen shots also show that Sensorly routes its speed tests through France or Uzbekhistan or someplace like that, hence the ridiculous pings.)

[SashilKapur]

Your screen shots show capacity limitations, which are becoming more common as more people get on LTE in Chicagoland. This will improve when Sprint can activate 1 or more LTE carriers on USCC spectrum in January, and when 800 LTE becomes available starting (hopefully) any day now (although you will need an iPhone 5c or 5s or a tri-band phone or hotspot to see 800 LTE). And it's probably not backhaul related, as Sprint won't turn on LTE until either fiber or microwave backhaul is in service, as both mhammett and I know all too well from our experience in Dekalb and Crystal Lake.

 

Other people are reporting signal-to-noise ratios very close to zero, even with strong RSRPs: This is likely caused by something electrical or electronic actually interfering with the LTE signal, and likely has little or nothing to do with traffic or capacity.

 

That's why I asked in an earlier post if anyone in the city itself had seen SNR improvements, or if things were just as bad. Certainly Sprint's network engineers are completely aware of the problem, and if it is caused by another carrier (either TMO or USCC), they would know who is causing the problem, and Sprint would contact the other carrier, and the problem would go away quickly, before the hypothetical other carrier faced fines and sanctions from the FCC.

 

(Your screen shots also show that Sensorly routes its speed tests through France or Uzbekhistan or someplace like that, hence the ridiculous pings.)

 

Ahh, I keep equating capacity and backhaul when they in fact are not equal.  I should know better.

I think I was fooled by the fact that I wasn't expecting capacity issues this quickly after NV was launched in Chicago.  Pretty naive.  Can't wait for that USCC spectrum to kick in.

[tommym65]

Ahh, I keep equating capacity and backhaul when they in fact are not equal. I should know better.

I think I was fooled by the fact that I wasn't expecting capacity issues this quickly after NV was launched in Chicago. Pretty naive. Can't wait for that USCC spectrum to kick in.

I think most of us have been surprised at how quickly speeds have gone down here as usage has increased. But Sprint is currently limited to only 10 MHz of LTE spectrum in the Chicago market, where the other guys all have more. When USCC is gone, I believe Sprint will get another 30 MHz of PCS spectrum, and I think the Nextel shutdown yielded at least 10 MHz of 800 SMR, thus at least 40 MHz of new capacity. I don't know how much of that will be re-farmed into LTE, but a lot of it will be. I am not counting the former Clearwire spectrum, as deployment is going to be too sparse to be useful for quite a while.

 

In any event, within a few months, Sprint's capacity issues in Chicagoland will take a dramatic turn for the better.

 

Now if they'd just finish my backhaul and fix the SNR . . .

[SashilKapur]

I think most of us have been surprised at how quickly speeds have gone down here as usage has increased. But Sprint is currently limited to only 10 MHz of LTE spectrum in the Chicago market, where the other guys all have more. When USCC is gone, I believe Sprint will get another 30 MHz of PCS spectrum, and I think the Nextel shutdown yielded at least 10 MHz of 800 SMR, thus at least 40 MHz of new capacity. I don't know how much of that will be re-farmed into LTE, but a lot of it will be. I am not counting the former Clearwire spectrum, as deployment is going to be too sparse to be useful for quite a while.

 

In any event, within a few months, Sprint's capacity issues in Chicagoland will take a dramatic turn for the better.

 

Now if they'd just finish my backhaul and fix the SNR . . .

 

I remember how much I drooled when I first heard about that deal way back when.  Now I am remembering the reason I was drooling.  Capacity.

For clarification it is 20MHz of spectrum is most midwest areas concerned except for 10 Mhz for St. Louis.

Also I just read that the USCC network was to be closed Oct 31st.

[Fraydog]

Can't Sprint just light up another LTE carrier on band 2 (aka 25 minus Sprint's band G) where USCC was and get double the bandwidth for existing devices? 

[lilotimz]

Can't Sprint just light up another LTE carrier on band 2 (aka 25 minus Sprint's band G) where USCC was and get double the bandwidth for existing devices? 

 

Yep.

[kyle_4thousand]

Anyone have a tri-band device yet? I want to see what's going on with TD-LTE with respect to to the Chicago market

[SashilKapur]

Anyone have a tri-band device yet? I want to see what's going on with TD-LTE with respect to to the Chicago market

 

I have an N5 but have been lazy obtaining my MSL to change my band priorities.

[nexgencpu]

Ive noticed that the Nexus 5 always displays SNR:30dB. Do you think having multiple radios on at the same time like last generation devices might cause some interference within itself? 

[nexgencpu]

Anyone have a tri-band device yet? I want to see what's going on with TD-LTE with respect to to the Chicago market

It seems that TD-LTE, does not function on the N5 just yet, i have B41 set at the highest priority on my device (my market is one of the furthest along)and have yet to switch to it.

[tommym65]

Anyone have a tri-band device yet? I want to see what's going on with TD-LTE with respect to to the Chicago market

I have a Netgear Zing, and have seen flashes of B41 in the far northwest suburbs. No B26 yet.

[mhammett]

 

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[Vince]

I have a Netgear Zing, and have seen flashes of B41 in the far northwest suburbs. No B26 yet.

Is there a way to get a zing without signing a contract? I'd like to test drive b41 without a commitment.

[tommym65]

Is there a way to get a zing without signing a contract? I'd like to test drive b41 without a commitment.

Robert tried, wasn't able to. Others have said the same. I think sprint won't bend on their policy.

 

As far as b41 is concerned, my (limited) experience has been that it is VERY fast if you can get at least a mediocre RSRP, but that service is so spotty where I am that it's not worth it yet to buy one for b41 in Chicagoland. I got better coverage a couple of weeks ago in St Louis, but the speeds weren't as good. (I was in a hurry, though, and didn't really do much testing.)

 

I bought mine because I stay in hotels a lot, and their WiFi is often crappy and insecure, so I need a hotspot (and the Zing's radio is really good). Searching for b41/b26 is just a bonus for me right now.

[Joeynach]

On a non network interference poor SNR note, I was curious to why all the NV towers east of i-65 in NW Indiana, in areas such as Lake Station, Portage, Hobart, etc, were all still 3G/800.  It's the only area I can see from looking at the map that is cloaked in widespread 3G only, other areas have a random tower here or a random tower there, but not this part of NW Indiana.  @SprintCare on twitter said they are schedule to be upgraded to 4G in the "upcoming months".  OK, fine, but why the delay for so long, and what so different about this area that has pushed their 4G upgrades out into 2014 when the rest of the metro area has been finished for months?

[Vince]

On a non network interference poor SNR note, I was curious to why all the NV towers east of i-65 in NW Indiana, in areas such as Lake Station, Portage, Hobart, etc, were all still 3G/800. It's the only area I can see from looking at the map that is cloaked in widespread 3G only, other areas have a random tower here or a random tower there, but not this part of NW Indiana. @SprintCare on twitter said they are schedule to be upgraded to 4G in the "upcoming months". OK, fine, but why the delay for so long, and what so different about this area that has pushed their 4G upgrades out into 2014 when the rest of the metro area has been finished for months?

Maybe they can't get fiber to those sites as easily since much of Indiana is pretty remote. Could also be delays in work permits for buriedh fiber. Who knows. I'm waiting for the other 2/3 Laporte, Indiana sites to go LTE so that when I visit my grandfather, I'm not complaining so much.

[Joeynach]

Maybe they can't get fiber to those sites as easily since much of Indiana is pretty remote. Could also be delays in work permits for buriedh fiber. Who knows. I'm waiting for the other 2/3 Laporte, Indiana sites to go LTE so that when I visit my grandfather, I'm not complaining so much.

Weird cuz we are talking about essentially parts of the Chicago suburbs here, NW Indiana, and the I-90 and I-80/I-94 Corridors, two of the most heavily trafficked in the nation. I dont consider Portage and Hobart to really be remote, they are connected to the Chicago metro area, no large swatch of farmland or anything in between.  This is a head scratcher for me.

[Dkoellerwx]

On a non network interference poor SNR note, I was curious to why all the NV towers east of i-65 in NW Indiana, in areas such as Lake Station, Portage, Hobart, etc, were all still 3G/800.  It's the only area I can see from looking at the map that is cloaked in widespread 3G only, other areas have a random tower here or a random tower there, but not this part of NW Indiana.  @SprintCare on twitter said they are schedule to be upgraded to 4G in the "upcoming months".  OK, fine, but why the delay for so long, and what so different about this area that has pushed their 4G upgrades out into 2014 when the rest of the metro area has been finished for months?

Just one of those weird spots.

 

There used to be zero LTE in that part of NW Indiana. Just in the last couple weeks sites in La Porte and Michigan City and surrounding locales finally got LTE enabled.

[Vince]

Just one of those weird spots.

 

There used to be zero LTE in that part of NW Indiana. Just in the last couple weeks sites in La Porte and Michigan City and surrounding locales finally got LTE enabled.

Yeah, I noticed that Michigan City is lit up with LTE. Still a few to go in Laporte.

[Fraydog]

I see some people reading this are commenting on a Verge story about Verizon AWS, bashing Sprint. 

[mhammett]

Maybe they can't get fiber to those sites as easily since much of Indiana is pretty remote. Could also be delays in work permits for buriedh fiber. Who knows. I'm waiting for the other 2/3 Laporte, Indiana sites to go LTE so that when I visit my grandfather, I'm not complaining so much.

Then use microwave. This isn't a difficult concept. Backhaul is really easy.

 

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[Dkoellerwx]

Then use microwave. This isn't a difficult concept. Backhaul is really easy.

 

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Microwave has been taking the longest to set up for some reason.

 

In the Kansas market, all of the Microwave sites just started coming online in September/October.