Marcelo Claure, Town Hall Meetings, New Family Share Pack Plan, Unlimited Individual Plan, Discussion Thread

[Arysyn]

Fcc has said no to joint bidding between TMO and sprint.

Fcc is about to say no to more reserve spectrum.

 

Sprint doesn't have excess pcs spectrum else they would've launched 2nd pcs lte carrier and their network wouldn't have sucked.

 

When you make these grandiose posts, you have to a little bit about what you're talking.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here I thought you had more class than to insult me too on my posts, which are not grandiose.

 

I don't understand why some people here have to insult the nature of posts, rather than just focusing on a posts content. You yourself Lou get a lot of complaints here, while I've been fair to you.

[Arysyn]

By the way, anyone who is going to attack the nature of my posts, just stop. I don't even care if I get banned for saying this, because I know I'm in the right here. I don't insult others here and their posts, which I'm asking not to do so of mine. If you have a difference of opinion of the content, or want to inform me of something I'm mistaken on, then fine. However, I'm going to defend my right to post as long as the staff allows me to be here. If you want to petition them to ban me, then fine. I'll leave here knowing I remained respectful and did not violate rules, but was removed from posting supposedly grandoise and novel-like posts while being defensive and taking things too personally or whatever.

[Rawvega]

My disability is getting worse in my hands where I have to use a stylus to type. 

 

I'm sorry to hear that. I was unaware.

 

As far as the 800 SMR spectrum, Sprint has deployed so much infrastructure on it already that it would be hard just to give or trade it away. Plus, there is 1x 800 to contend with. Sprint isn't close to pulling the plug on CDMA voice, while the 600 MHz spectrum which probably won't be available until 2019 if ever will exclusively be LTE/VoLTE. Sprint can't rid itself of the 800 MHz spectrum without losing a lot of in-building voice coverage in the process. There are also still re-banding efforts going on which Sprint is on the hook for. For better or worse, the SMR spectrum is really too intertwined with Sprint to be separated anytime in the near future.

[Arysyn]

I'm sorry to hear that. I was unaware.

 

As far as the 800 SMR spectrum, Sprint has deployed so much infrastructure on it already that it would be hard just to give or trade it away. Plus, there is 1x 800 to contend with. Sprint isn't close to pulling the plug on CDMA voice, while the 600 MHz spectrum which probably won't be available until 2019 if ever will exclusively be LTE/VoLTE. Sprint can't rid itself of the 800 MHz spectrum without losing a lot of in-building voice coverage in the process. There are also still re-banding efforts going on which Sprint is on the hook for. For better or worse, the SMR spectrum is really too intertwined with Sprint to be separated anytime in the near future.

Thanks for the helpful response.

 

I'm baffled by how spectrum has been handled by the FCC which is so different from what I not only believe, but also know to be a much more efficient way of dealing with this, that I often suggest ideas that don't always work well with how things have happened and are implemented in such a way that would be difficult to change, or just not worth it at this point. Still, if spectrum reorganization were possible and feasible, then perhaps something more streamlined could happen.

[S4GRU]

 

 

Oh now I am disappointed in you...

 

you know it is not possible for 4 or 5 devices to consume the maximum while simultaneously causing performance to suck for the other 100 users, unless those 4 or 5 devices were somehow prioritized ahead of the other 100, all 105 connections would share the suckage equally.

 

and if anything, those 4 or 5 devices would be de-prioritized/throttled if they were considered heavy users and on a congested tower anyway.

If 5 users are using HD streaming essentially using all the bandwidth, it doesn't matter whether there is 20 more users, 100 more users or 200 more users. Everyone's experience will suffer. Your point of prioritization is spot on, because everyone will have an equal shot at the pipe. I was trying to use a simplistic explanation, making the point that people who over consume will reduce the throughput for everyone.

 

I was only addressing the point of the cost of cell splitting by adding macro sites. I'm not having a debate of the morality of the unlimited buffet. You and I are not allowed to discuss that anymore under the terms of the Geneva Convention.

 

Using Tapatalk on Nexus 6

[S4GRU]

Here I thought you had more class than to insult me too on my posts, which are not grandiose.

 

I don't understand why some people here have to insult the nature of posts, rather than just focusing on a posts content. You yourself Lou get a lot of complaints here, while I've been fair to you.

Lou99 is provocative. That's the nicest way I can describe him. But classy never comes to mind.

 

Using Tapatalk on Nexus 6

[S4GRU]

By the way, anyone who is going to attack the nature of my posts, just stop. I don't even care if I get banned for saying this, because I know I'm in the right here. I don't insult others here and their posts, which I'm asking not to do so of mine. If you have a difference of opinion of the content, or want to inform me of something I'm mistaken on, then fine. However, I'm going to defend my right to post as long as the staff allows me to be here. If you want to petition them to ban me, then fine. I'll leave here knowing I remained respectful and did not violate rules, but was removed from posting supposedly grandoise and novel-like posts while being defensive and taking things too personally or whatever.

You need thicker skin if you are going to participate in a public forum. He did not attack you. He did not insult you. He did not mock you. He told you to do your homework. People are going to disagree with you and challenge you. And you cannot use a disability as an answer to challenges.

 

Lou99 is no friend of mine. He drives me crazy sometimes. And I will be the first to discipline him when he breaks the rules. But this is not an example.

 

You have to be able to take direct challenges to your posts, even snarky jabs, if you are going to participate at S4GRU. We will not stifle debate for the purposes of sensitivity. If so, AJ wouldn't have lasted five seconds.

 

Using Tapatalk on Nexus 6

[kojitsari]

 

 

If so, AJ wouldn't have lasted five seconds.

 

He still can't last five seconds......Oh wait, you were referring to the forum xD.

 

Probably shouldn't have gone there, but comedic rule demands it!

[WiWavelength]

We will not stifle debate for the purposes of sensitivity. If so, AJ wouldn't have lasted five seconds.

 

Am I really that sensitive?  Geez, Robert, now you have hurt my feelings.

 

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

He still can't last five seconds......Oh wait, you were referring to the forum xD.

 

Probably shouldn't have gone there, but comedic rule demands it!

 

Yes, it is true.  I cannot last five seconds.  That is exactly what your mother said last night.

 

 

AJ

[Arysyn]

You need thicker skin if you are going to participate in a public forum. He did not attack you. He did not insult you. He did not mock you. He told you to do your homework. People are going to disagree with you and challenge you. And you cannot use a disability as an answer to challenges.

 

Lou99 is no friend of mine. He drives me crazy sometimes. And I will be the first to discipline him when he breaks the rules. But this is not an example.

 

You have to be able to take direct challenges to your posts, even snarky jabs, if you are going to participate at S4GRU. We will not stifle debate for the purposes of sensitivity. If so, AJ wouldn't have lasted five seconds.

 

Using Tapatalk on Nexus 6

Robert,

 

I'm fine with people disagreeing with the content of my posts and even writing responses critical of that content, of course along with any helpful information for me regarding the content itself, but not the style of my writing.

 

I'd rather people not respond to me if they feel an uge to attack that style. Otherwise like I said, disagreements and differences of opinion regarding the content is fine.

 

My disability has nothing to do with the content, but it is partly a reason for my style of writing, depending on what exactly about that style is being criticized. Then I do need to defend myself with it, or at least inform about it to those with more fair, polite questions pertaining to that style, or even mistakes, such as accidently pressing the add reply button too soon.

 

As noted, I'm going to defend myself whenever I get responses to my style of writing. In the matter of Lou, and in fairness to his latest response to me, he was using the same wording used by AJ, which that wording and even the response to my style of writing by him, was uncalled for. The additional problem to this, is I've been very understanding of Lou and haven't been harsh to him at all. I don't have a negative opinion of him and I even told him I believe his motives for being here. So, I wanted to point that out to him, which I did and then moved on from.

[Arysyn]

Oh, one more thing quickly. I understand not wanting to stifle debate, which I take it that means people are allowed to criticize each other for both content and writing style. Yet, when there was a debate about this in the poll thread, as I was defending myself to someone, we both were asked to stop, which I'm fine with as long as it isn't discriminatory against me and my defense. Though I'm unclear now as to how that wasn't stifling, unless of course its only done when matters go off topic.

 

Yet criticizing someone's writing style is off topic all over this site, other than on a thread specifically about writing style, which actually could be very bad allowing such to exist where people could freely attack on this.

[dedub]

If 5 users are using HD streaming essentially using all the bandwidth, it doesn't matter whether there is 20 more users, 100 more users or 200 more users. Everyone's experience will suffer. Your point of prioritization is spot on, because everyone will have an equal shot at the pipe. I was trying to use a simplistic explanation, making the point that people who over consume will reduce the throughput for everyone.

 

I was only addressing the point of the cost of cell splitting by adding macro sites. I'm not having a debate of the morality of the unlimited buffet. You and I are not allowed to discuss that anymore under the terms of the Geneva Convention.

 

Using Tapatalk on Nexus 6

 

Ah, my point however is 5 users aren't going to be streaming HD to the detriment of the other users.

 

5 users are going to be *trying* to stream HD (probably not very well if the site is so congested), to the detriment of all, including themselves (at least on that sector).

[P_M_G]

Something I learned about forum criticism long ago - usually the one criticizing is looking to get a reaction from you and when you do so, they win.

 

Think about every time you see the football ref throw a flag for the guy throwing the retaliatory punch or shove, or the hockey player getting a penalty for the extra cross check to a guy jawing at him. Hell, Robby Keane of the LA Galaxy did a little excessive shoving going for a ball on the touch line with like 1 minute left in a game the other night and the defender got red carded for a reactionary elbow to Keane's head. I had to explain this to my daughter who plays water polo, she would get hacked on offense with no call and then get ejected for retaliating on the defensive side which hurt her team. Now she just plays through it and finds other ways to get even...like scoring goals.

 

I think this is kind of where Robert is going with the thick skin comment. Honestly, who really gives a rats azz about what anyone on this site thinks of your opinions, writing style, or whatever.

[WiWavelength]

Ah, my point however is 5 users aren't going to be streaming HD to the detriment of the other users.

 

5 users are going to be *trying* to stream HD (probably not very well if the site is so congested), to the detriment of all, including themselves (at least on that sector).

 

The truth is somewhere in the middle.  Modern wireless data schedulers do not give every user equal priority.  Rather, they try to maximize throughput, thereby giving greater priority to those with good signal, lesser priority to those with bad signal.

 

If we were to examine "excessive users" up through "data abusers," I would bet that a great many of them are parked in crappy apartments near their serving sectors.  That gives them good signal, hence a leg up on the other users in their sectors.  If they had bad signal, they probably would not be "excessive users" or "data abusers" in the first place.  They would have pursued other options. 

 

AJ

[dedub]

good point.

[Arysyn]

Something I learned about forum criticism long ago - usually the one criticizing is looking to get a reaction from you and when you do so, they win.

 

Think about every time you see the football ref throw a flag for the guy throwing the retaliatory punch or shove, or the hockey player getting a penalty for the extra cross check to a guy jawing at him. Hell, Robby Keane of the LA Galaxy did a little excessive shoving going for a ball on the touch line with like 1 minute left in a game the other night and the defender got red carded for a reactionary elbow to Keane's head. I had to explain this to my daughter who plays water polo, she would get hacked on offense with no call and then get ejected for retaliating on the defensive side which hurt her team. Now she just plays through it and finds other ways to get even...like scoring goals.

 

I think this is kind of where Robert is going with the thick skin comment. Honestly, who really gives a rats azz about what anyone on this site thinks of your opinions, writing style, or whatever.

It matters because they are part of this site where people are here to discuss and debate wireless information, along with positive things like learning and sharing information. Negative stuff like attacking and criticizing writing style is insulting to the receiver, and is borderline bullying, which in cased of repeated action, is bullying.

 

Ultimately though, it is the staff's responsibity to moderate this kind of behavior based on set rules. Those rules are set by the staff and can have a major impact not only to the site, but to those who participate on the site. As most people here have good intentions, its important to keep the peace those good intentions create. When negative stuff gets posted, it causes a disturbance to that peace, and should be dealt with, in order to protect both the site and the people on it.

[Arysyn]

This slide speaks volumes!

 

Totally amped for 2xCA!!!

 

Sorry for the lack of embed, forum doesn't allow G photos...

 

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/v5sTWrp2RPCVv1f9mWfBRLZgJJRLKOcMeDHwJTYZqGnq=w558-h373-no

 

 

75mbs+ over 40% of the time! Granted it was after midnight.

Neat chart!

[Flompholph]

Oh, one more thing quickly. I understand not wanting to stifle debate, which I take it that means people are allowed to criticize each other for both content and writing style. Yet, when there was a debate about this in the poll thread, as I was defending myself to someone, we both were asked to stop, which I'm fine with as long as it isn't discriminatory against me and my defense. Though I'm unclear now as to how that wasn't stifling, unless of course its only done when matters go off topic.

 

Yet criticizing someone's writing style is off topic all over this site, other than on a thread specifically about writing style, which actually could be very bad allowing such to exist where people could freely attack on this.

If you want to keep your post long that is fine most people will just skip them don't worry.  I just read the first couple lines then skip your post. I hope you don't ask to many questions past the first paragraph. Most people are like that where they will only read only half of something if it's long they just go "meh" and skip.

 

I did have two questions for you.

 

One how does a network maintain minimum speeds without crazy cost build 10,000+ sites per city? A sector only supports ~200 Mbps so that is 15 people at 15Mbps but what about the other 10,000+ people. I thought you were going to attempt a fix to congestion in one of your threads but it ended up just being "I want to be able to stream 4k that is 15Mbps. So, yeah that's what I want a minimum of 15Mbps."  and no a solution to congestion. 

 

Two how do you expect MVNO to sale data at a loss and still be in business? T Mobile charged $18 per GB to their MVNO. ATT charged Tmobile $180+ per GB to roam on their network. Cost are dropping but now where near $2-$3 per GB. $10 per GB is low when taking in account costs. The only thing keeping unlimited a float is the average users is still only an average of 2 GB  of cellular data per month and then offloading to WIFI.

[Arysyn]

If you want to keep your post long that is fine most people will just skip them don't worry. I just read the first couple lines then skip your post. I hope you don't ask to many questions past the first paragraph. Most people are like that where they will only read only half of something if it's long they just go "meh" and skip.

 

I did have two questions for you.

 

One how does a network maintain minimum speeds without crazy cost build 10,000+ sites per city? A sector only supports ~200 Mbps so that is 15 people at 15Mbps but what about the other 10,000+ people. I thought you were going to attempt a fix to congestion in one of your threads but it ended up just being "I want to be able to stream 4k that is 15Mbps. So, yeah that's what I want a minimum of 15Mbps." and no a solution to congestion.

 

Two how do you expect MVNO to sale data at a loss and still be in business? T Mobile charged $18 per GB to their MVNO. ATT charged Tmobile $180+ per GB to roam on their network. Cost are dropping but now where near $2-$3 per GB. $10 per GB is low when taking in account costs. The only thing keeping unlimited a float is the average users is still only an average of 2 GB of cellular data per month and then offloading to WIFI.

Fair enough.

 

I gave up on the thread trying to connect congestion with speed caps, as a person who responded to it had some good points. Besides, it wasn't something I felt strongly about as a point I could prove. It just was an idea I got from reading comments on various wireless news articles where people mentioned the idea and I went along with it.

 

Regarding the per GB prices, currently it would be a major drop down to $2 to $3 per GB, which very likely won't happen for quite some time, just as unlimited likely will be around for awhile. Although when unlimited does go away, I don't perceive current rates for per GB data is going to be affordable for many moderate to heavy data users, which despite low data users being the average data use, those data numbers will increase as more heavy data applications, etc become available.

[S4GRU]

Ultimately though, it is the staff's responsibity to moderate this kind of behavior based on set rules. Those rules are set by the staff and can have a major impact not only to the site, but to those who participate on the site. As most people here have good intentions, its important to keep the peace those good intentions create. When negative stuff gets posted, it causes a disturbance to that peace, and should be dealt with, in order to protect both the site and the people on it.

You have got to be the first person to come along who thinks S4GRU is <i>under moderated</i>. We constantly get accused of over moderation. And our site is friendlier and more peaceful than almost any other wireless or network forum.

 

We are not referees nor will we set a rigid moral standard to communication style. I have yet to see you be personally attacked. When you do, please use the report feature so staff can investigate the infraction.

 

You are not a victim of S4GRU nor our members. You jump into complex conversations with many people with advanced network knowledge. And when they vigorously attack your ideas, you whine and complain.

 

People will rip your ideas to shreds. They do it to me too. It makes me a better debater. We won't protect you from that. As soon as someone makes the issues about you in an insulting or attack tone, then moderation will occur.

 

Please separate you from your ideas. I say stupid things sometimes. People will say my ideas are stupid or maybe worse. And sometimes they are. That's a fair comment, even if not nice. But to say I am stupid because of my ideas is crossing the line. Do you see the difference?

 

If I can admit some of the things I say are stupid, surely you can too. And when you say something that is going to draw negative attention to your ideas, accept that and move on. Or debate their points and disprove them. But crying foul every time someone insults your ideas is just going to cause problems.

 

This is not the Hello Kitty forum. It's a forum of wireless nerds. Nerds are ruthless because they are well informed and think they are smarter than everyone else. And nerds use words and ideas as their weapons in battle. It's bloody, it's messy, it hurts, it is full of testosterone. It's not for everyone. But you will learn a lot. And you will be better for it. If you can take it.

 

But we cannot allow constant off topic rabbit trails about claiming to be victimized. This is more disruptive to the forum discourse than the terse communication style you complain about.

 

Using Tapatalk on Nexus 6

[greencat]

Back on (recent) topic is anyone actually for Sprint missing out on both the 600 and 700 mhz auctions?

[lou99/maximus1987]

Back on (recent) topic is anyone actually for Sprint missing out on both the 600 and 700 mhz auctions?

There is no 700 auction. If you're talking about buying the 5x5 700a, I think they'd do better to put that money toward nationwide 5x5 600. This should be doable since the reserve will be 30mhz.

 

If sprint just doesn't bid for 600, then TMO will get the whole 30mhz reserve. At the very least sprint should enter the auction and bid up the reserve to make things uncomfortable for TMO. But at that point, why not just buy at least 10mhz?

 

I've listened to neville ray state several times that 'lte needs 10x10 to hum' so TMO's not gonna go all out to get the full 30mhz. Both TMO and sprint know that 10x10 is ideal so they're gonna tacitly collude by not bidding up the reserve unnecessarily; if they both want 10x10, one of them will have to bid on a 5x5 unreserved chunk.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cortney]

Back on (recent) topic is anyone actually for Sprint missing out on both the 600 and 700 mhz auctions?

 

You mean literally sitting out?

 

I would personally think it's very important they do actually participate in the 600MHz auction whenever that comes around, for the sake of helping to grow their nationwide footprint. 

Edited May 30, 2015 by cortney

[Arysyn]

You have got to be the first person to come along who thinks S4GRU is <i>under moderated</i>. We constantly get accused of over moderation. And our site is friendlier and more peaceful than almost any other wireless or network forum.

 

We are not referees nor will we set a rigid moral standard to communication style. I have yet to see you be personally attacked. When you do, please use the report feature so staff can investigate the infraction.

 

You are not a victim of S4GRU nor our members. You jump into complex conversations with many people with advanced network knowledge. And when they vigorously attack your ideas, you whine and complain.

 

People will rip your ideas to shreds. They do it to me too. It makes me a better debater. We won't protect you from that. As soon as someone makes the issues about you in an insulting or attack tone, then moderation will occur.

 

Please separate you from your ideas. I say stupid things sometimes. People will say my ideas are stupid or maybe worse. And sometimes they are. That's a fair comment, even if not nice. But to say I am stupid because of my ideas is crossing the line. Do you see the difference?

 

If I can admit some of the things I say are stupid, surely you can too. And when you say something that is going to draw negative attention to your ideas, accept that and move on. Or debate their points and disprove them. But crying foul every time someone insults your ideas is just going to cause problems.

 

This is not the Hello Kitty forum. It's a forum of wireless nerds. Nerds are ruthless because they are well informed and think they are smarter than everyone else. And nerds use words and ideas as their weapons in battle. It's bloody, it's messy, it hurts, it is full of testosterone. It's not for everyone. But you will learn a lot. And you will be better for it. If you can take it.

 

But we cannot allow constant off topic rabbit trails about claiming to be victimized. This is more disruptive to the forum discourse than the terse communication style you complain about.

 

Using Tapatalk on Nexus 6

Robert, quick mention here, then I'll move on, though I deserve this chance to respond.

 

I've said many many times in my so-called "whining" which is a particular unfair statement to make, particularly from an Admin (I say this from experience being a former Admin myself, remember), I've never complained here in any way about people attacking my ideas. Otherwise, I'd agree with most everything you've said here, and I do agree with you if a person were to do as you are falsely claiming I did.

 

Again, my complaints were regarding people attacking my writing style, not my content. I've been very open to discussion, even debates over that content, just not my writing style. Now I have no further need to discuss this, and I agree such issues don't make the forum look good on either side. However, if someone does attack my writing style again, I will complain about it.

 

If you want to ban me, then go ahead. I know I've been fair to people here, and I respect disagreement over things that matter here, which is content. I know I'm right about this and is proven by my fairness and the fact I haven't been hostile towards anyone. Despite this though, I still think this is a good site, and as long as I'm here, I'll remain respectful of others. I'm only expecting the same in return.