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matt2k12

Wilson (or other) Amps for 1900 LTE???

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Hello all,

Well I waited and waited for LTE to hit my area whence I could cut the cable cord. Well the rollout came and .... not so much. So I am looking at a signal booster / repeater. I came across some good info, mostly here on s4gru but I was wondering since those threads are outdated by the rollout and the date posted I thought I would post up and see if anyone had some recent experience with Wilson electronics and LTE service? I am mostly only interested in the 1900 mhz band as the 800 band will come later.

 

(http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/881-signal-amplification-i-want-to-install-a-booster-at-my-house/?hl=%2Bsignal+%2Bbooster)


At one point it was only the Wilson 801247 amplifier that for sure confirmed amplified the G band. I also came across this (http://blog.3gstore.com/2012/07/sprint-4g-lte-amplifiers-wilson.html) :


Recently Sprint turned on their new 4G LTE network in a handful of locations and users are already reporting excellent throughput on the new network. Reception quality seems to be much better than their older 4G WiMAX network, but some users will still find themselves on the edge of coverage. Luckily users will be in luck because Sprint is using the 'G' block of the 1900Mhz spectrum, which is 5Mhz past the typical 1900Mhz band amplifiers. This means Wilson can easily modify their 1900Mhz filters so all their future products will be able to accommodate the extra chunk of spectrum to support 4G LTE on Sprint. So, if your awaiting a 4G LTE amplifier for Sprint you won't have to wait as long as the Verizon version!

 

I find this interesting because Wilson doesnt market a Sprint LTE amp like they do for Verizon. I assume it works in the 1900 band like they say it does. Although on the product descriptions they say explicitly that the products do not work on LTE including Sprint. Is this clever marketing on their part to drive sales to the Quad band amplifier? Obviously they would rather sell the $1000 amp than the $200 amp that is only 5mhz or less away from Sprint's band?

Does anyone have any more hands on experience? The Wilson 801247 kit is a Desktop (DT) model and not made for a larger home or area which I am trying to cover. So I want to confirm if a different amp they offer will amplify the 1900 mhz G band of Sprint LTE.

If you have a working signal repeater setup that receives the 1900 mhz Sprint LTE please let me know the model of antenna, amp, etc...

Thanks in advance.

 

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Thought I would follow up with this info about the G band:

G: 1910–1915MHz and 1990–1995MHz

Does anyone know where Sprint's LTE falls within those parameters? Because the Wilson units only fall within 1850-1990mhz leaving off the last 5 mhz.... Maybe its not even noticable and simply a technicality or maybe it is the one thing that will stand in the way of receiving 1900 mhz LTE? I am too much of a novice in this field to know if 5mhz is a big deal. http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/store/display/40/46/db-pro

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Well, according to Wikepedia -

PCS 1900 1900 1,850.2–1,910.0 1,930.2–1,990.0

512–810

GSM, IS-95 (CDMA), 3G, 4G

IS-136 (D-AMPS) PCS 1,850–1,910 and 1,930–1,990

 

-they don't even use that last 5 mhz of frequency.

Would love for someone with more first hand or technical knowledge to chime in.

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Thought I would follow up with this info about the G band:

 

G: 1910–1915MHz and 1990–1995MHz

Does anyone know where Sprint's LTE falls within those parameters? Because the Wilson units only fall within 1850-1990mhz leaving off the last 5 mhz.... Maybe its not even noticable and simply a technicality or maybe it is the one thing that will stand in the way of receiving 1900 mhz LTE? I am too much of a novice in this field to know if 5mhz is a big deal. http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/store/display/40/46/db-pro

Well, I'm no expert, but Sprint's 4G LTE is 5x5 MHz FD-LTE. Which means, 5 MHz of Downlink (cell site to you), 5 MHz of Uplink (you to the cell site), for 10 MHz total. So, leaving off 5 MHz of your 10 MHz of G Block Spectrum means you're going to get a pretty unusable signal by the time it hits your device. The downlink (iirc it's up/down) is still going to be the same as before - weak.

 

Also, I really don't recommend using LTE to replace a wired connection, unless you only use internet sparingly. A hotspot device is limited to 12 GB a month, and some members here have talked of easily going over 300 GB, so...

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According to wikipedia Sprint doesnt use the 1995 mhz frequency for anything, but that could be bad or outdated information.

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Thought I would follow up with this info about the G band:

 

G: 1910–1915MHz and 1990–1995MHz

Does anyone know where Sprint's LTE falls within those parameters? Because the Wilson units only fall within 1850-1990mhz leaving off the last 5 mhz.... Maybe its not even noticable and simply a technicality or maybe it is the one thing that will stand in the way of receiving 1900 mhz LTE? I am too much of a novice in this field to know if 5mhz is a big deal. http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/store/display/40/46/db-pro

 

What do you mean by where does Sprint's LTE falls within those parameters?  Sprint's LTE in the G block encompasses the entire G block so it uses 10 MHz (1910-1915 MHz on the uplink and 1990-1995 MHz on the downlink) of bandwidth. 

 

If you are asking if the Wilson amp (which supports from 1850-1910 MHz and 1930-1990 MHz) can support Sprint LTE, I am going to say NO because its off by 5 MHz.  I don't think its as simple as a firmware upgrade to fix it so that it can support the extra 5 MHz on the downlink and uplink.

 

Also it sounds like you are trying to replace your home ISP with Sprint 4G LTE which is a no-no.  LTE should be used primarily for mobile use and not as your primary home ISP.

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According to wikipedia Sprint doesnt use the 1995 mhz frequency for anything, but that could be bad or outdated information.

 

Are you talking about the 1995-2000 MHz and 1915-1920 MHz frequencies?

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Does anyone posting here have any first hand experience with these systems? Seems like there would be another brand or maybe even the Wilson brand would make a repeater/booster that covers the full 1900 spectrum including 1990-1995

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Note that even the high end tri and quad band repeaters by Wilson, that supposedly cover all LTE spectrums over all carriers, including Sprint, only say they go up to 1990mhz.... odd if you ask me. If it was a special repeater for Sprint wouldn't it note the 1995 frequency?

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I don't have any information about the equipment, but I can tell you that the roll-out is not yet finished in your area.

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I spend the last hour or so researching PCS boosters because I need one for my new house and the only current device is the Wilson Sleek 4G, which is a cradle type device.  It's designed for in car use, but could be in home for a MiFi or a phone with a headset.

 

I emailed Wilson tech support about anything upcoming for the PCS G Block.

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I've been researching too. Wilson isn't the end all. Check out www.minicircuits.com - they have some wideband amplifiers in various pricing tiers and db gain levels. Also they have low noise amplifiers. If you want 60db gain you may have to put 2 30db units in line. Check out their products. If I piece somehting together with them I will post up the product numbers and pricing.

Right now its looking like at least a 30db gain in a low noise amplifier will cost ~$350, the Wilson wideband indoor and outdoor antennas are ~$50 each so you're looking at about $450 + cable & misc connectors ($50) + labor (me). The good thing is you can get these amplifiers to cover 700mhz-2700mhz range... full spectrum, all bands.

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I've been researching too. Wilson isn't the end all. Check out www.minicircuits.com - they have some wideband amplifiers in various pricing tiers and db gain levels. Also they have low noise amplifiers. If you want 60db gain you may have to put 2 30db units in line. Check out their products. If I piece somehting together with them I will post up the product numbers and pricing.

 

You do not want 60 dB gain.  You probably do not even want 30 dB gain.  For one, that could be illegal -- PCS 1900 MHz mobile transmitters are limited to 2 W (33 dBm) EIRP.  And two, that much gain could cause undue interference with the network in the area.

 

Honestly, this project has "bad idea" written all over it.  And this is one of the reasons why wireless operators are seeking to have boosters more closely regulated, requiring users to obtain explicit permission from wireless licensees in order to use boosters.

 

AJ

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You do not want 60 dB gain.  You probably do not even want 30 dB gain.  For one, that could be illegal -- PCS 1900 MHz mobile transmitters are limited to 2 W (33 dBm) EIRP.  And two, that much gain could cause undue interference with the network in the area.

 

Honestly, this project has "bad idea" written all over it.  And this is one of the reasons why wireless operators are seeking to have boosters more closely regulated, requiring users to obtain explicit permission from wireless licensees in order to use boosters.

 

AJ

I was only basing that db gain number on the Wilson products which claim 50db, 60db, 70db gain in home booster kits.

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Other alternative websites for amplifers include rflambda.com, rfcomp.com, and possibly empowerrf.com but those might be pricier options.

Edited by matt2k12

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I was only basing that db gain number on the Wilson products which claim 50db, 60db, 70db gain in home booster kits.

the gain they are showing is receiving signal gain not output..  max uplink power was 630mw.  for the biggest 5 band "booster"  

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the gain they are showing is receiving signal gain not output..  max uplink power was 630mw.  for the biggest 5 band "booster"  

I wish I knew what that meant. What do you think about this then? http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/ZRL-3500+.pdf I want something that matches or surpasses the Wilson specs, obviously.... People have good results with Wilson products.

 

Here are the General Purpose Amplifiers http://www.minicircuits.com/products/amplifiers_coax_gain_block.shtml

 

And here are the Low Noise Amplifiers (pricier but not a deal killer) http://www.minicircuits.com/products/amplifiers_coax_low_noise.shtml

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I wish I knew what that meant. What do you think about this then? http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/ZRL-3500+.pdf I want something that matches or surpasses the Wilson specs, obviously.... People have good results with Wilson products.

 

Here are the General Purpose Amplifiers http://www.minicircuits.com/products/amplifiers_coax_gain_block.shtml

 

And here are the Low Noise Amplifiers (pricier but not a deal killer) http://www.minicircuits.com/products/amplifiers_coax_low_noise.sh

 

 

The wilson boosters are boosting input power not your output power its like rabbit ears remember back in the day you had just an antenna then they had amplified antennas? to get those long distance uhf signals in?  thats what the wilson amps do they are amplifying the input signal but only transmitting at 630 miliwatts so you get a good download signal but your upload is staying legal for a mobile device 

 

the amps at minicircuits arent for helping you recieve better they are for transmitters. and  they arent for consumer use.. if you use these you will end up breaking the law by surpassing what your device was rated for.. these are things you will find on a tower not to be used to boost your output signal and they wont help you trying to pull in a weak signal at home..  

 

the wilson boosters work well but understand what they are for... they are for weak signals coming in, they will not boost your output power, and if they do its not by much.  so if you are too far away from the tower to both send and recieve instead of trying to boost your output power (which is illegal) then its probably in your best interest to probalby get an airwave.  and hope that they get a tower closer to you.  or move to a carrier that might better fit your needs at home..  

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If you wanted to boost the input or output signal wouldnt you just plug the lines in the appropriate in/out plug? I dont understand how 1 amp only boosts input and 1 only boosts output. Seems like it would boost whatever is plugged into it, no?

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You do not want 60 dB gain.  You probably do not even want 30 dB gain.  For one, that could be illegal -- PCS 1900 MHz mobile transmitters are limited to 2 W (33 dBm) EIRP.  And two, that much gain could cause undue interference with the network in the area.

 

Honestly, this project has "bad idea" written all over it.  And this is one of the reasons why wireless operators are seeking to have boosters more closely regulated, requiring users to obtain explicit permission from wireless licensees in order to use boosters.

 

AJ

 

Not to mention getting visited by the feds. I am guessing those boosters stop at 1990 because beyond that is an uplink (device to tower) only frequency and since they do not boost uplink there is no reason to support it. Correct?

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Not meaning to necro a thread but had some information on what the original poster was looking for.

 

I recently got the S4 (I has an Epic 4g).  I had previously bought the Wilson Sleek 800/1900 MHz car amplifier for my Epic 4g, and since I had heard that Sprint's 4g LTE works on the 1900 MHz range I decided to try it out.  Sure enough, I gain about +10 dBm when I use it with my phone.  It helps stabilize the signal as well, so I stay on the 4g LTE network instead of fluctuating to the 3g and back (since I'm in a "fair" area of 4g LTE coverage.)  Right now my signal is reading about -76 dBm, 8 asu with 5mbps/2mbps going on. Without it I would be around -86 to -90 dBm and around 4 asu.  I'm in an area with LOS issues to the tower and am about a mile away from the tower as well.

 

Hope this helps.  I don't know anything about the Wilson being 5 MHz off or anything; I just know that it helps me with my 4g lte phone (and it's not WiMax as LTE is only offered in my area.)

 

P.S.  If you are trying to use the LTE to replace your home ISP, you can check out Wireless N Wifi. They are a Sprint reseller and have a Unlimited 4g LTE data plan for like 80 bucks a month, but with a semi steep startup fee/modem deposit/modem purchase.  Unofficially they want people to stay under 100 gigs a month though.

Edited by Luna

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You do not want 60 dB gain.  You probably do not even want 30 dB gain.  For one, that could be illegal -- PCS 1900 MHz mobile transmitters are limited to 2 W (33 dBm) EIRP.  And two, that much gain could cause undue interference with the network in the area.

 

Honestly, this project has "bad idea" written all over it.  And this is one of the reasons why wireless operators are seeking to have boosters more closely regulated, requiring users to obtain explicit permission from wireless licensees in order to use boosters.

 

AJ

Most (if not all) of these boosters only boost the downlink (tower to phone) signal and leave the uplink (phone to tower) signal untouched (minus whatever gain the outside antenna provides). Am I correct on that?

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A late reply to this topic, but in case the OP is still looking for a booster, Wilson introduced a new 'all band/all air interface' booster at CES: 

 

http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/uploads/files/229_Wilson_Announces_DT4G-FINAL-FINAL.pdf

 

 

http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/store/display/243/45/dt-4g-coming-soon

 

Downfall is that it's a small space/single room solution (gain figures 23.7dBm to 24.9 on the uplink and -1.0 to 6.1 on the downlink) and it doesn't cover band 41 (25 is covered and most of 26)

Edited by CrossedSignals

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A late reply to this topic, but in case the OP is still looking for a booster, Wilson introduced a new 'all band/all air interface' booster at CES:

 

http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/uploads/files/229_Wilson_Announces_DT4G-FINAL-FINAL.pdf

 

 

http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/store/display/243/45/dt-4g-coming-soon

 

Downfall is that it's a small space/single room solution (gain figures 23.7dBm to 24.9 on the uplink and -1.0 to 6.1 on the downlink) and it doesn't cover band 41 (25 is covered and most of 26)

I'm steady buying that

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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      Baltimore, MD Gainesville, GA Manhattan/Junction City, KS Sherman-Denison, TX  
      Over 2,000 sites are currently online with 12,000 sites to be online by the end of the year
      Network Vision towers are seeing 10-20% additional voice minutes usage per tower, overnight after activating Network Vision. This will equal roaming savings for Sprint, and ESMR will only increase that savings.
      CEO Dan Hesse confirmed that Sprint will be releasing the Motorola Photon Q "in the very near future." It will be a QWERTY slider "with robust business and consumer features." It will also be sporting world phone capability.
      Several hundred Network Vision sites are waiting for backhaul, and will turn on when the backhaul is installed, several hundred more sites have birds nesting on them and Sprint won't be able to turn them on until the birds leave, according to the conference call.
      Sprint sold 1.5 million iPhones during the quarter, even though other carriers saw slowing of sales with rumors ramping up that the new iPhone would support LTE. 40% of the iPhone sales were to new customers. They also stated that iPhone customers require less customer support and are expected to churn less than customers on other phones.
      Mr. Hesse confirmed that Sprint is not looking to change plans in the near future.
      Things are looking up for Sprint. This quarter saw their highest ARPU and their lowest churn rate to date. They posted a larger loss than Q1, but beat their revenue goals for Q2. For more detailed financial information, check the source link below.
       
      Source: http://investors.spr...spx?iid=4057219
      http://finance.yahoo...-141200985.html -Thanks to S4GRU sponsor marioc21 for finding this link!
    • By lilotimz
      Ericsson RRUS31 B25 + RRUS11 B26
      These are the newest and greatest remote radio units to come from Ericsson. 

      The new Ericsson RRUS31  B25 should be fairly distinctive compared to the earlier RRUS11s and now the RRUS12s being deployed by ATT and Verizon. One of these new RRUS31s can do the job of two earlier RRUS11s thus reducing deployment costs for Sprint and complexity in deploying new sites and making it easier for users to spot as there are now 4 jumpers coming out of one RRUS31 rather than two from each RRUS11 that Ericsson originally deployed. 

      All future deployments will be utilizing the new Ericsson RRUS31s. In addition Ericsson are sending crews to their original deployments and swapping out older RRUS11s for these new RRUS31s due to the aforementioned fact that one RRUS31 can do the job of 2 RRUS11s. Weight savings will be significant at sites where there are 4 or 5 RRUS11 B25s that can be replaced by one or 2 RRUS31s. The Ericsson RRUS31 deployment project is known as the 65 Mhz Project. 

       

      Ericsson RRUS11 B26 top and RRUS31 B25 bottom

       

       
      Ericsson High Capacity / 4x4/2 MIMO Deployment
      Note the additional antenna + PCS radio.
      Previously Ericsson utilized additional PCS radios and used RF combiners for high capacity setups where they utilized three or more PCS radios. This new setup will utilize a completey new antenna + radio set just like Samsung and run 4x2 MIMO on the LTE antenna / radio set. 
       

       

       

       
      Ericsson RRUS11 B25 [EOL'd] and B26
      A standard Ericsson Network Vision 1.0 site with 3 RRUS11s where two are dedicated to PCS and one to SMR.  

      This type of setup is no longer deployed or utilized in new sites. Existing sites will be slowly converted to newer RRUS31 B25 via the Sprint 65 mhz project. 


       
      Ericsson NV high capacity site [EOL'd]
      3 or 4 PCS RRUs are present for a total of 4 or 5 RRUS11s per antenna. 


       

       

       
      Close up of Antennas
       

       
      Ericsson cabinets 
      (center)



      All credit to those who took the photographs. They know who they are!
       
  • Posts

    • No, unfortunately I haven't seen any useful 5G info from your phone (or anyone else's LG) yet. If you get a software update and happen to find 5G before they shut it down, please try reporting again! The accent color is still in its infancy and only appears on LTE for now. I've had it on my version of SCP for several weeks, initially I didn't think anyone else would like it. Figured I'd offer it up and see what the feedback was.
    • I accidentally broke the Samsung menus when I compiled the latest release; it will be resolved in next update.   Thanks, I'll look into that.. it's all a work in progress, glad we are making some headway!   The current display format is temporary, it is just to get the data displaying reliably.. once that happens, it will get its own "block" like the connection other technologies have.
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    • I did notice that the NR info sticks when I don't have an NR connection. Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
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