PCS H Block Spectrum discussion (was "Draft Rules for H Block Auction Set by FCC"

[SuperFrog44]

 

So is carrier aggregation similar LACP in the Ethernet world? If that's the case then I would figure that you would have different modes of operation. Say adaptive vs. round-robin would have considerably different battery life profiles and could smooth some of the differences between G and H blocks. Thoughts?

[linhpham2]

Saw this today:

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/dish-we-likely-wont-meaningfully-participate-h-block-auction/2013-08-05

 

So Dish won't "meaningfully participate", which probably means they'll do their best to drive up the auction price for Sprint.  Otherwise, it looks like the H block might be Sprint's to take if it wants it.  

More info from Fiercewireless: http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/dishs-ergen-singles-out-t-mobile-potential-wireless-ma-partner/2013-08-07

 

"Interestingly, Ergen said that bidding in an auction for the 1900 MHz PCS H Block "is not particularly attractive as things stand today." He said that auction would provide more uplink spectrum for Dish but that Dish needs more downlink spectrum, and that the technical rules the FCC made for the auction were designed to favor Sprint. "I mean, if you look at it from a big picture perspective, the way H Block is configured today and based on the rules, Sprint pretty much got the rules that they wanted for H Block," he said. "So I think it's very, very interesting to Sprint. And they're probably the one that's most likely to prevail there."

[IamMrFamous07]

Once the auction is done; and once sprint gets its amount of this spectrum, How long will it take for them to deploy it? Just curious because if it doesn't take to long I don't mind waiting for a Triband device that supports the H band block

[Nickel]

Once the auction is done; and once sprint gets its amount of this spectrum, How long will it take for them to deploy it? Just curious because if it doesn't take to long I don't mind waiting for a Triband device that supports the H band block

You realize that they're going to have to make a new band for it because band 25 doesn't cover it, right? It's going to be a while before you see it in a phone.

[supert0nes]

Once the auction is done; and once sprint gets its amount of this spectrum, How long will it take for them to deploy it? Just curious because if it doesn't take to long I don't mind waiting for a Triband device that supports the H band block

 

 

This makes no sense unless you are trying to test out the H band for Sprint.  Triband is huge and happening right now, H is very minor and not happening in the next year+.

[Yuhfhrh]

Once the auction is done; and once sprint gets its amount of this spectrum, How long will it take for them to deploy it? Just curious because if it doesn't take to long I don't mind waiting for a Triband device that supports the H band block

 

I'm guessing it will be at least two years after then win the auction. Hopefully they will refarm a 5x5 slice of PCS A-F, and then combine PCS G and H together for a 10x10 carrier.

[IamMrFamous07]

This makes no sense unless you are trying to test out the H band for Sprint. Triband is huge and happening right now, H is very minor and not happening in the next year+.

I know it will require a new band but I just wanted to know how long will it take them to deploy the spectrum and when will phones that supports this band come out?

 

Just simple questions lol

[IamMrFamous07]

I'm guessing it will be at least two years after then win the auction. Hopefully they will refarm a 5x5 slice of PCS A-F, and then combine PCS G and H together for a 10x10 carrier.

I'm hoping for that too

[jefbal99]

I'm guessing it will be at least two years after then win the auction. Hopefully they will refarm a 5x5 slice of PCS A-F, and then combine PCS G and H together for a 10x10 carrier.

Is this so you can measure your e-penis against VZW and att?  Two 5Mhz FDD will be just fine.  All a 10Mhz FDD channel does is enable abuse, do you really need 75mbps on a freaking mobile device?

[Yuhfhrh]

Is this so you can measure your e-penis against VZW and att?  Two 5Mhz FDD will be just fine.  All a 10Mhz FDD channel does is enable abuse, do you really need 75mbps on a freaking mobile device?

 

No, I don't need 75mbps, but I would like a stable 5mbps. Around peak times at lunch and dinner, LTE here can drop below 1mbps on the download and upload, especially on the very edge of signal. A 10Mhz FDD channel would almost double speeds on the edge of signal, and would enable the possibility for a nice 5mbps up/down on a -110dbm signal. That would prevent everyone from having to rely on SMR LTE for decent speeds. I don't think I would ever pull 75mbps down on a 10Mhz channel for the same reason I have never pulled 30mbps down on Sprint's LTE. Speeds that high are only in rare cases.

[WiWavelength]

I'm guessing it will be at least two years after then win the auction. Hopefully they will refarm a 5x5 slice of PCS A-F, and then combine PCS G and H together for a 10x10 carrier.

 

That is wishful thinking.  Many markets have ≤20 MHz PCS A-F block spectrum.  Those markets would be cut back to a maximum of only three CDMA1X/EV-DO 1900 carriers.  So, refarming A-F block spectrum in those markets is likely not practical for many years.

 

Additionally, millions of current and future Sprint LTE devices do not support the PCS/AWS-2 H block.  Any refarming of the PCS G block to utilize its spectrum for a 10 MHz FDD carrier would take LTE 1900 out of service for those devices in markets where A-F block refarming is not possible.

 

Not to mention, the G block and H block have different service rules.  Thus, they may be better left as separate 5 MHz FDD carriers, the H block used for offload because it is power and out of band emissions constrained.

 

AJ

[Yuhfhrh]

That is wishful thinking.  Many markets have ≤20 MHz PCS A-F block spectrum.  Those markets would be cut back to a maximum of only three CDMA1X/EV-DO 1900 carriers.  So, refarming A-F block spectrum in those markets is likely not practical for many years.

 

Additionally, millions of current and future Sprint LTE devices do not support the PCS/AWS-2 H block.  Any refarming of the PCS G block to utilize its spectrum for a 10 MHz FDD carrier would take LTE 1900 out of service for those devices in markets where A-F block refarming is not possible.

 

Not to mention, the G block and H block have different service rules.  Thus, they may be better left as separate 5 MHz FDD carriers, the H block used for offload because it is power and out of band emissions constrained.

 

AJ

 

This may be how it turns out, but I will still cringe if Sprint starts LTE-A and aggregates PCS G and H together. That would seem like a waste of battery to me. >.<

 

Could markets with greater than or equal to 30Mhz of PCS play it out? Compared to PCS G, how much more power constrained is the H block? 

 

As always, thank you for your insight!

[S4GRU]

No, I don't need 75mbps, but I would like a stable 5mbps. Around peak times at lunch and dinner, LTE here can drop below 1mbps on the download and upload, especially on the very edge of signal. A 10Mhz FDD channel would almost double speeds on the edge of signal, and would enable the possibility for a nice 5mbps up/down on a -110dbm signal. That would prevent everyone from having to rely on SMR LTE for decent speeds. I don't think I would ever pull 75mbps down on a 10Mhz channel for the same reason I have never pulled 30mbps down on Sprint's LTE. Speeds that high are only in rare cases.

Triband LTE will solve this problem. One 5MHz carrier is just not enough on some sites, especially with a network not fully deployed.

 

This issue of 1Mbps LTE speeds at peak times is not just a Sprint issue. There are dozens of VZW LTE sites in my area that do the same thing. Also, I found my first AT&T LTE site now around 1Mbps in the evening. Everyone needs more capacity. But Sprint actually has the ability to add more LTE spectrum per subscriber than any of them. And they also have half the customers of the duopoly.

 

So there will be some pains along the way, but it will improve with each additional PCS site that goes live in your area. Also, the capacity will double with LTE 800. LTE 800 is being deployed now and should be on nearly every LTE 1900 site in 6-9 months. And capacity will go up 5-10 fold with LTE 2600, which is already live in some markets. It will take another 6-9 months to complete in markets already with WiMax, and another 10-12 months on Network Vision sites.

 

Not perfect, but better. And getting even better and better. And with SoftBank and their deep pockets now, it will happen. We no longer are crossing our fingers.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0 using Tapatalk

[Yuhfhrh]

Triband LTE will solve this problem. One 5MHz carrier is just not enough on some sites, especially with a network not fully deployed.

 

This issue of 1Mbps LTE speeds at peak times is not just a Sprint issue. There are dozens of VZW LTE sites in my area that do the same thing. Also, in found my first AT&T LTE site now around 1Mbps in then evening. Everyone needs more capacity. But Sprint actually has the ability to add more LTE spectrum per subscriber than any of them. And they also have half the customers of the duopoly.

 

So there will be some pains along the way, but it will improve with each additional PCS site that goes live in your area. Also, the capacity will double with LTE 800. LTE 800 is being deployed now and should be on nearly every LTE 1900 site in 6-9 months. And capacity will go up 5-10 fold with LTE 2600, which is already live in some markets. It will take another 6-9 months to complete in markets already with WiMax, and another 10-12 months on Network Vision sites.

 

Not perfect, but better. And getting even better and better. And with SoftBank and their deep pockets now, it will happen. We no longer are crossing our fingers.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0 using Tapatalk

 

In the area I am referring to, all nearby sites have been lit up with LTE, (and nearly all sites nearby to the nearby sites have LTE) so this won't get better until Triband. And yes, Triband will solve this problem.

 

Upon further thinking you and AJ are right. Sprint will probably end up keeping G and H separate, until maybe some 10+ years down the road, simply because its not needed. I can not imagine them having these same capacity problems in the near future with 2600Mhz and 800Mhz fully deployed.

[WiWavelength]

This may be how it turns out, but I will still cringe if Sprint starts LTE-A and aggregates PCS G and H together. That would seem like a waste of battery to me. >.<

I am not sure that the battery drain would be of any significance, since both carriers would likely share the same antennas and radio paths. Regardless, internal menu settings would probably allow advanced users to disable carrier aggregation.

 

Could markets with greater than or equal to 30Mhz of PCS play it out? Compared to PCS G, how much more power constrained is the H block?

I do not have the FCC rulemaking in front of me right now, but do see in this thread the following post that I wrote back in June:

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/4112-draft-rules-for-h-block-auction-set-by-fcc/?p=161368

 

AJ

[Yuhfhrh]

I love how I can learn so much here! Premier sponsorship coming up soon. 

[WiWavelength]

I love how I can learn so much here! Premier sponsorship coming up soon. 

 

Excellent.  We appreciate the support.

 

Now, Robert, when do I get my commission?

 

 

AJ

[CAREND]

Triband LTE will solve this problem. One 5MHz carrier is just not enough on some sites, especially with a network not fully deployed.

 

...

So there will be some pains along the way, but it will improve with each additional PCS site that goes live in your area. Also, the capacity will double with LTE 800. LTE 800 is being deployed now and should be on nearly every LTE 1900 site in 6-9 months. And capacity will go up 5-10 fold with LTE 2600, which is already live in some markets. It will take another 6-9 months to complete in markets already with WiMax, and another 10-12 months on Network Vision sites.

 

...

Robert via Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0 using Tapatalk

 

Do you have a source for this, or is this coming from a customer service representative?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rukin'd

[S4GRU]

Do you have a source for this, or is this coming from a customer service representative?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rukin'd

Sourced. SoftBank is really pushing LTE 800 and LTE 2600 hard. LTE 800 adds will go quickly on sites already NV'd with backhaul. LTE 2600 will be deployed pretty fast on existing WiMax sites and existing NV sites with backhaul who do not require permitting.

 

However, LTE 2600 permitting could be a hang up in some cities on NV sites, as they are adding a new panel. And many cities require full zoning/planning approvals for more panels as it may effect the aesthetics. But Sprint could do all the permitting at once this time, instead of market by market. Should be a lot faster.

 

Also, the work for LTE 2600 is much more minor and needs a less time for crews. So it should be easier to get the labor.

 

By the end of the year, remaining sites that don't have LTE yet will start to get both LTE 800/LTE 1900 around the same time. And the 5,000-6,000 sites that are still left to have permitting applied for may even get LTE 2600 thrown on the applications now. All you permit watchers should keep a keen eye for an additional panel showing up on Sprint permits.

 

NV 2.0 will be much faster than 1.0.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Deval]

Rob missed the smilie

[S4GRU]

Rob missed the smilie

It was shown as black text instead of an emoticon in Tapatalk.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0 using Tapatalk

 

 

[WiWavelength]

Do you have a source for this, or is this coming from a customer service representative?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rukin'd

 

Asking for a source?  That would be "maximus'd," would it not?

 

AJ

[CAREND]

Asking for a source?  That would be "maximus'd," would it not?

 

AJ

the question is "maximus'd," but the butt of the joke gets "rukin'd"

[bigsnake49]

There's a good article on fiercewireless.com about the NV1.0, NV2.0 phases and their timing:

 

s noted by Barron's, Wells Fargo Securities and investors met earlier this week with Sprint CEO Dan Hesse and CFO Joe Euteneuer, who provided more details and color on the company's Network Vision network modernization efforts, the first phase of which the carrier expects to complete by mid-2014 (as part of that, Sprint expects to cover 200 million POPs with LTE by year-end). The second phase will be the deployment of Clearwire's 2.5 GHz airwaves on a nationwide basis, and Sprint's management expects to reveal more details on that part of the company's plans "at some point in the not-too-distant future," according to note, written by Wells Fargo Securities analysts J. Davis Herbert and Eric Fishel.

Sprint disclosed in July that it plans to deploy Clearwire's 2.5 GHz spectrum using TD-LTE on all 38,000 of its planned Network Vision cell sites in a nationwide rollout. And, due to the weaker propagation characteristics of 2.5 GHz, Sprint will also deploy small cells and other sites beyond the 38,000 Network Vision sites. Previously, Sprint had said it would use Clearwire's spectrum as a "hotspot" LTE network to offload traffic in urban markets.

.......................................................................................................................................................................................................

Looking ahead in terms of capital expenditures, Sprint expects to spend around $8 billion in 2013, $8 billion in 2014, and then $6 billion per year from 2015 to 2017. The company is also still open to network sharing, depending on the economics.

Read more: Sprint plans to use 2.5 GHz spectrum to catch up to Verizon, AT&T in LTE - FierceWireless http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/sprint-plans-use-25-ghz-spectrum-catch-verizon-att-lte/2013-08-29#ixzz2dOTi8Ra0 

 

I wonder who they mean when they talk about network sharing? According to some in this forum, they hate Dish and Ergen. Yet, he's the only one one that does not have his own network. Did they forgive and forget?

[utiz4321]

There's a good article on fiercewireless.com about the NV1.0, NV2.0 phases and their timing:

 

s noted by Barron's, Wells Fargo Securities and investors met earlier this week with Sprint CEO Dan Hesse and CFO Joe Euteneuer, who provided more details and color on the company's Network Vision network modernization efforts, the first phase of which the carrier expects to complete by mid-2014 (as part of that, Sprint expects to cover 200 million POPs with LTE by year-end). The second phase will be the deployment of Clearwire's 2.5 GHz airwaves on a nationwide basis, and Sprint's management expects to reveal more details on that part of the company's plans "at some point in the not-too-distant future," according to note, written by Wells Fargo Securities analysts J. Davis Herbert and Eric Fishel.

Sprint disclosed in July that it plans to deploy Clearwire's 2.5 GHz spectrum using TD-LTE on all 38,000 of its planned Network Vision cell sites in a nationwide rollout. And, due to the weaker propagation characteristics of 2.5 GHz, Sprint will also deploy small cells and other sites beyond the 38,000 Network Vision sites. Previously, Sprint had said it would use Clearwire's spectrum as a "hotspot" LTE network to offload traffic in urban markets.

.......................................................................................................................................................................................................

Looking ahead in terms of capital expenditures, Sprint expects to spend around $8 billion in 2013, $8 billion in 2014, and then $6 billion per year from 2015 to 2017. The company is also still open to network sharing, depending on the economics.

 

Read more: Sprint plans to use 2.5 GHz spectrum to catch up to Verizon, AT&T in LTE - FierceWireless http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/sprint-plans-use-25-ghz-spectrum-catch-verizon-att-lte/2013-08-29#ixzz2dOTi8Ra0

 

 

I wonder who they mean when they talk about network sharing? According to some in this forum, they hate Dish and Ergen. Yet, he's the only one one that does not have his own network. Did they forgive and forget?

In business hard feelings take second place to good profit maximizing decisions for the firm. It is illegal for it not to.