T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[caspar347]

If they were equal to full builds Att and Verizon would've done them long ago but the fact that they do not even for extremely rural sites should tell you something about those types of setups.

Yep. I eventually just said basically what you did: if Sprint isn't doing it due to performance issues, its gotta be really bad. He spent a long time talking about how it was because of Sprint's network management/equipment, but then I explained that it's managed by Ericsson, who *gasp* supplies T-Mobile with equipment over quite a bit of their footprint.

[lou99/maximus1987]

One things for sure: GMO lte by definition cannot be worse that edge only. Just can't.

[caspar347]

One things for sure: GMO lte by definition cannot be worse that edge only. Just can't.

Well, upgrading from edge to LTE is pretty much a garunteed improvement in user experience, so yeah.

[lilotimz]

One things for sure: GMO lte by definition cannot be worse that edge only. Just can't.

Yes it can.

 

That's exactly the reason why sprint discontinued it. GMO lte sites performance was extremely variable with some sites matching existing coverage, others covering a tiny portion, or just a few hundred feet, and it costing a huge amount of time and money to try and diagnose why decade old tower equipment are having such issues.

 

Ask anyone working for tmobiles rural l1900 deployment and you will have stacks upon stacks of papers documenting issues that just seemingly come out of nowhere.

 

GMO lte sites as a whole are highly variable and unpredictable.

 

Edit: oh i misread it. Yeah I agree. GMO lte is still better than edge only.

[lou99/maximus1987]

Yes it can.

 

That's exactly the reason why sprint discontinued it. GMO lte sites performance was extremely variable with some sites matching existing coverage, others covering a tiny portion, or just a few hundred feet, and it costing a huge amount of time and money to try and diagnose why decade old tower equipment are having such issues.

 

Ask anyone working for tmobiles rural l1900 deployment and you will have stacks upon stacks documenting issues that just seemingly come out of nowhere.

 

GMO lte as a whole are highly variable and unpredictable.

Sure but lte footprint will still increase. It may be patchy but the worst it could get is unusable lte at which point you're equal to unusable edge gprs. So I don't see how it can be worse that what is there right now.

[lilotimz]

Sure but lte footprint will still increase. It may be patchy but the worst it could get is unusable lte at which point you're equal to unusable edge gprs. So I don't see how it can be worse that what is there right now.

See my edit at the end of the post.

[Fraydog]

As a VZW sub, I'll just say that I have never seen a 700 MHz antenna with a RRU or AIR panel. AWS XLTE setups will have RRU's, but most of what Verizon has done in Southern Illinois, St. Louis, and Southeast Missouri is ground mount 700. Verizon has dominated LTE performance here over their entire time here with the equivalent of ground mount setups. So to say that ground mount is a horrid idea, I can't agree with that when VZW has made it work pretty well here. Granted, VZW has low band here, but they still are able to get 15-20 Mbps when virtually everyone in my hometown has Verizon.

 

My experience on testing out T-Mobile LTE has shown there's spots where it cuts out, but that's because of the not so great tower placement that T-Mobile has over the rural LTE areas along with the hilly terrain between Festus and Perryville where I did the testing. GSM dies in the same spots.

 

Also, I don't give the iPhone as much credit here as I used to. For whatever reason, Apple has programmed it to not check for LTE all that much. Flipping to airplane mode is something I have to do way too much, regardless of what carrier it is.

[lilotimz]

As a VZW sub, I'll just say that I have never seen a 700 MHz antenna with a RRU or AIR panel. AWS XLTE setups will have RRU's, but most of what Verizon has done in Southern Illinois, St. Louis, and Southeast Missouri is ground mount 700. Verizon has dominated LTE performance here over their entire time here with the equivalent of ground mount setups. So to say that ground mount is a horrid idea, I can't agree with that when VZW has made it work pretty well here. Granted, VZW has low band here, but they still are able to get 15-20 Mbps when virtually everyone in my hometown has Verizon.

 

My experience on testing out T-Mobile LTE has shown there's spots where it cuts out, but that's because of the not so great tower placement that T-Mobile has over the rural LTE areas along with the hilly terrain between Festus and Perryville where I did the testing. GSM dies in the same spots.

 

Also, I don't give the iPhone as much credit here as I used to. For whatever reason, Apple has programmed it to not check for LTE all that much. Flipping to airplane mode is something I have to do way too much, regardless of what carrier it is.

You need to understand the difference between ground mount full build and ground mount legacy.

 

Verizon does ground mount full builds with new antennas and jumpers.

 

Ground mount legacy reuses old antennas and jumpers.

[Fraydog]

You need to understand the difference between ground mount full build and ground mount legacy.

I know what the difference is, VZW seems to be doing both around here for what it's worth. The only RRU installs are for XLTE. The newer installs have 700 as ground mount and AIR panels for XLTE.

[lilotimz]

I know what the difference is, VZW seems to be doing both around here for what it's worth. The only RRU installs are for XLTE. The newer installs have 700 as ground mount and AIR panels for XLTE.

Yes.. My point. They use new antennas and have the radio mounted inside the cabinet.

 

Tmobile rural l1900 and sprint GMO non full build does not have new antennas and wiring.

[lou99/maximus1987]

To deploy 700a on GMO lte sites does the site have to go full build? Or can GMO 1900 lte site coexist with new 700a rrhs?

[EvanA]

To deploy 700a on GMO lte sites does the site have to go full build? Or can GMO 1900 lte site coexist with new 700a rrhs?

The GMO can coexist with 700a, but if they're gonna climb the tower to deploy 700a they'll convert the 1900 setup to a full build as well.

[lou99/maximus1987]

The GMO can coexist with 700a, but if they're gonna climb the tower to deploy 700a they'll convert the 1900 setup to a full build as well.

Better question is would TMO add 700a alongside a GMO 1900 lte?

[EvanA]

Better question is would TMO add 700a alongside a GMO 1900 lte?

They will most likely convert the GMO to a full build when 700a is added.

[Conan Kudo]

They will most likely convert the GMO to a full build when 700a is added.

When 700MHz is being deployed, the site is converted to a full build (RRHs and all) with 700, PCS, and AWS on it. AWS LTE, PCS GSM+UMTS, and 700MHz LTE are activated at that time.

[EvanA]

http://newsroom.t-mobile.com/issues-insights-blog/unleashing-lte-potential-integrating-new-spectrum.htm

 

Looks like they'll be starting 5GHz work this year and are aggregating 700 with PCS/AWS.

 

I don't see the point in aggregating band 12 with bands 2 or 4. Sure it'll improve speeds a little, but it will also destroy speeds for people who are not in range of 2/4 and can only receive band 12.

[Paynefanbro]

I'm sure that puts pressure on Sprint to have 3 carrier aggregation complete by the end of the year. That likely won't happen until the WiMax shutdown on November 6th though. 2 Carrier Aggregation is likely right around the corner though.

[lou99/maximus1987]

http://newsroom.t-mobile.com/issues-insights-blog/unleashing-lte-potential-integrating-new-spectrum.htm

 

Looks like they'll be starting 5GHz work this year and are aggregating 700 with PCS/AWS.

 

I don't see the point in aggregating band 12 with bands 2 or 4. Sure it'll improve speeds a little, but it will also destroy speeds for people who are not in range of 2/4 and can only receive band 12.

The point is for when you move out of range of 2/4.

[EvanA]

The point is for when you move out of range of 2/4.

I think you misunderstood what I said. Aggregating 12 with 2/4 will decrease throughput for people who are only in range of 12.

[lou99/maximus1987]

http://newsroom.t-mobile.com/issues-insights-blog/unleashing-lte-potential-integrating-new-spectrum.htm

 

Looks like they'll be starting 5GHz work this year and are aggregating 700 with PCS/AWS.

 

I don't see the point in aggregating band 12 with bands 2 or 4. Sure it'll improve speeds a little, but it will also destroy speeds for people who are not in range of 2/4 and can only receive band 12.

The point is for when you move out of range of 2/4.

[lou99/maximus1987]

I think you misunderstood what I said. Aggregating 12 with 2/4 will decrease throughput for people who are only in range of 12.

When within 2/4 range the network will use 2/4 since that's what has more bandwidth.

[Paynefanbro]

When within 2/4 range the network will use 2/4 since that's what has more bandwidth.

We know that. What he's saying is when you're out of range of band 2 and band 4, you will be on band 12. Because of carrier aggregation though, those who are in range of only Band 12 will see a significant decrease in performance.

[WiWavelength]

When within 2/4 range the network will use 2/4 since that's what has more bandwidth.

 

No, that would not be carrier aggregation.  That would be multi band load balancing, which is how Sprint is employing its tri band network.

 

AJ

[milan03]

http://newsroom.t-mobile.com/issues-insights-blog/unleashing-lte-potential-integrating-new-spectrum.htm

 

Looks like they'll be starting 5GHz work this year and are aggregating 700 with PCS/AWS.

 

I don't see the point in aggregating band 12 with bands 2 or 4. Sure it'll improve speeds a little, but it will also destroy speeds for people who are not in range of 2/4 and can only receive band 12.

"Coincidentally", Ericsson today also announced indoor RBS 6402 Picocell solution, capable of aggregating cellular transmission with up to 20MHz of unlicensed WiFi (LAA) for improved peak rates and indoor coverage. http://www.ericsson.com/us/ourportfolio/products/rbs-6402

 

It seems to be a very cost effective SmallCell solution, $2,000 a pop, fully capable of leveraging SON capabilities and requiring only Ethernet for both power and bandwidth. 

[joshnys8913]

"Coincidentally", Ericsson today also announced indoor RBS 6402 Picocell solution, capable of aggregating cellular transmission with up to 20MHz of unlicensed WiFi (LAA) for improved peak rates and indoor coverage. http://www.ericsson.com/us/ourportfolio/products/rbs-6402

 

It seems to be a very cost effective SmallCell solution, $2,000 a pop, fully capable of leveraging SON capabilities and requiring only Ethernet for both power and bandwidth. 

looks just like what each carrier has already but this one looks like it supports all carriers so you dont have to have carrier specific one....