T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[caspar347]

But you can do the permits and everything in parallel right?

I'm pretty sure you need a permit in order to begin work on the tower structure.

[lou99/maximus1987]

I'm pretty sure you need a permit in order to begin work on the tower structure.

They can apply for all permits in parallel.

[caspar347]

They can apply for all permits in parallel.

Oh. I misread your comment. Yes, they can.

[lou99/maximus1987]

Ohhhh ok I never knew that it was bad. I guess the good thing is that they will in fact come back and fix it within a reasonable amount of time.

 

 

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Also they will not be broadcasting Hspa 1900 only gsm/gprs/edge and lte.

 

I'm not sure just how bad the lte 1900 GMO will be (at least on freeways) because the 2g signal is pretty strong. Worst case you keep switching from 2g to lte but at least you're not on 2g 100% of time.

[derrph]

Also they will not be broadcasting Hspa 1900 only gsm/gprs/edge and lte.

 

I'm not sure just how bad the lte 1900 GMO will be (at least on freeways) because the 2g signal is pretty strong. Worst case you keep switching from 2g to lte but at least you're not on 2g 100% of time.

I would hope not because the switching between LTE and 2g would be bad. But that'll also be sloppy deployment just to get a LTE signal out which I just can't see happening cause that'll mess up their name that they've worked to fix.

 

 

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Edited December 31, 2014 by derrph

[lou99/maximus1987]

I would hope not because the switching between LTE and 2g would be bad. But that'll also be sloppy deployment just to get a LTE signal out.

 

 

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Don't know the reddit page but a tmobile employee said that on GMO sites tgere won't be Hspa just 2g and lte.

[derrph]

Don't know the reddit page but a tmobile employee said that on GMO sites tgere won't be Hspa just 2g and lte.

Wow it would make sense to add hspa as a LTE fall back. Because falling from LTE to 2g is a hard drop.

 

 

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[lou99/maximus1987]

Wow it would make sense to add hspa as a LTE fall back. Because falling from LTE to 2g is a hard drop.

 

 

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Might be because of lack of rf ports?

[Paynefanbro]

I'm pretty sure Neville Ray said something along those lines too. He said that most of the upgraded sites will be LTE/GSM only as opposed to LTE/UMTS/GSM.

[reedacus25]

With my iPhone 6 (notoriously not a great RF device) on Band 2, I kept close to comparable range with the GSM network in dense enough areas.

 

Point in case:

Along I-59S in MS today, I kept a WatchESPN stream open from just outside Meridian, MS to Slidell, LA with some slight quality degradation close to the state line where spacing is more sparse. This stretch is pretty good with spacing for 1900, and thus my performance was adequate for this expectation.

 

Conversely, US45S from Brooksville, MS to Meridian, MS is also completely Band 2ified and the performance is spotty as anything due to site spacing being stretched WAY too thin. Please reference the 2G maps on T-Mobile to compare the spacing.

 

Moral of the story, when the existing macro infrastructure was already well planned for 1900, the Band 2 stuff pretty much works to the same level as expected by the GSM network when you allow proper overlap and sufficient time for the handset to handover to the adjacent cell.

However when the cell spacing is too far apart, you have a horrible experience. I desperately wish these sites would get the RRH treatment because it would make the experience a great deal more palatable.

 

But I'm also the fool that wants a UMTS layer for reliable voice with better quality than the GSM network with simultaneous data. Yeah, yeah, VoLTE I know, it's just not rock solid yet....

[jamisonshaw125]

How is T-Mobile going to cover 300  million people with 700 mhz, when it's not even available in 30+ states, and in the states it is there are restrictions or its not statewide?

 

I can't understand how they expect to reach those numbers. Can Sprint even hit 300 million with LTE 800?

 

Edit: 30+ states might be an overstatement. I'm not entirely sure on the numbers, I just went through and counted the states from the spectrum map from a while back. 

[Sprke]

If they get a LTE roaming agreement with US Cellular how many more pops would that get them? They still have both Dakotas and Montana to deal with.. Huge areas of land.

[JeffDTD]

Depends. If/when Sprint consummates the deal with nTelos and goes after USCC and/or C Spire, they may be able to hold T-Mobile off for a while.

Although cspire doesn't release subscriber numbers, its count has always been around 1m give or take. If they expect to sell at a premium, the subscriber/network gain is hard to justify in a rural, poor state. Sprints network in MS, or rather lack thereof, has also made them irrelevant for anyone who stays in MS very long. The CSpire branding would need to hang around as an affiliate or sub brand. CSpire is also laying its own fiber in larger cities around the state, which Sprint would have a hard time justifying support for.... Kill that and you have a public interest project going up in flames. Cspire employee word of mouth is that the company has had quite a hard time with growth in the lte era and loses most customers to Verizon.

[Paynefanbro]

Although cspire doesn't release subscriber numbers, its count has always been around 1m give or take. If they expect to sell at a premium, the subscriber/network gain is hard to justify in a rural, poor state. Sprints network in MS, or rather lack thereof, has also made them irrelevant for anyone who stays in MS very long. The CSpire branding would need to hang around as an affiliate or sub brand. CSpire is also laying its own fiber in larger cities around the state, which Sprint would have a hard time justifying support for.... Kill that and you have a public interest project going up in flames. Cspire employee word of mouth is that the company has had quite a hard time with growth in the lte era and loses most customers to Verizon.

Well Sprint does have EVDO roaming in place there and soon will have LTE roaming which will make them a more valuable option in the future. I'm hoping Sprint is the LTE roaming partner for US Cellular, that'll increase rural LTE significantly in the few rural areas I travel to in North Carolina and Maine.

[derrph]

T-Mobile will pass Sprint for the number 3 spot but there's no denying that 2015 will be the year of T-Mobile and Sprint making dents in some fashion into Verizon and AT&T.

 

 

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[irev210]

How is T-Mobile going to cover 300  million people with 700 mhz, when it's not even available in 30+ states, and in the states it is there are restrictions or its not statewide?

 

I can't understand how they expect to reach those numbers. Can Sprint even hit 300 million with LTE 800?

 

Edit: 30+ states might be an overstatement. I'm not entirely sure on the numbers, I just went through and counted the states from the spectrum map from a while back. 

 

A big part of it will be their roaming partners.

 

fiercewireless had an article on it a few months back.

[JeffDTD]

Well Sprint does have EVDO roaming in place there and soon will have LTE roaming which will make them a more valuable option in the future. I'm hoping Sprint is the LTE roaming partner for US Cellular, that'll increase rural LTE significantly in the few rural areas I travel to in North Carolina and Maine.

Personal experience is unfortunately that the cspire evdo roaming is in patches, not literally everywhere that cspire has coverage but sprint does not.

[Conan Kudo]

A big part of it will be their roaming partners.

 

fiercewireless had an article on it a few months back.

That was before Legere said that they were going to do native footprint rollout to 300 million POPs using 700MHz, PCS, and AWS (which Braxton Carter has explicitly said that it involves geographic expansion at an investor conference, and Legere has reiterated that new towers are going to be constructed for the expansion in the Uncarrier 8.0 event even though he kind of waved it away in favor of talking about low-band spectrum). And keep in mind, this is also part and parcel for meeting those pesky buildout obligations for AWS and 700MHz licenses that they've not yet built out.

[milan03]

How is T-Mobile going to cover 300 million people with 700 mhz, when it's not even available in 30+ states, and in the states it is there are restrictions or its not statewide?

 

I can't understand how they expect to reach those numbers.

They never claimed that they will cover 300 million pops with 700Mhz LTE alone.

[JeffDTD]

T-Mobile will pass Sprint for the number 3 spot but there's no denying that 2015 will be the year of T-Mobile and Sprint making dents in some fashion into Verizon and AT&T.

 

 

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A 4th place size ranking has not prevented tmobile from realizing massive subscriber growth. Rather, they managed to use the perception as part of their "underdog" appeal.

 

Theoretically, Sprint's fall to #4 doesn't have to have any impact on its future, ESPECIALLY considering its newfound aggressiveness. Given the volatility of the stock price, the announcement will probably burden the stock.... But that is an emotional reaction, not one based on logic about the company's future

[derrph]

A 4th place size ranking has not prevented tmobile from realizing massive subscriber growth. Rather, they managed to use the perception as part of their "underdog" appeal.

 

Theoretically, Sprint's fall to #4 doesn't have to have any impact on its future, ESPECIALLY considering its newfound aggressiveness. Given the volatility of the stock price, the announcement will probably burden the stock.... But that is an emotional reaction, not one based on logic about the company's future

I agree but you know some people will see sprints fall to 4 as death of the company. People have become obsessed with who's number 3 and 4 when it shouldn't even matter. Some have steered away from enjoying their respective carrier and have turned it into a all out battle over rank.

 

 

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[irev210]

That was before Legere said that they were going to do native footprint rollout to 300 million POPs using 700MHz, PCS, and AWS (which Braxton Carter has explicitly said that it involves geographic expansion at an investor conference, and Legere has reiterated that new towers are going to be constructed for the expansion in the Uncarrier 8.0 event even though he kind of waved it away in favor of talking about low-band spectrum). And keep in mind, this is also part and parcel for meeting those pesky buildout obligations for AWS and 700MHz licenses that they've not yet built out.

 

Thanks for the update - I didn't know that.

 

300 million pops native is very aggressive.  T-Mobile has a history of announcing what us sprint guys view as impossible, yet they always seem able to pull it off.

 

Hopefully this new announcement will really kick Sprint into high gear.

 

Though I start to wonder if pop coverage even matters with AT&T and Verizon's push into mega-expansion of DAS.

[jamisonshaw125]

They never claimed that they will cover 300 million pops with 700Mhz LTE alone.

Misread. Thanks 

[Conan Kudo]

Thanks for the update - I didn't know that.

 

300 million pops native is very aggressive.  T-Mobile has a history of announcing what us sprint guys view as impossible, yet they always seem able to pull it off.

 

Hopefully this new announcement will really kick Sprint into high gear.

 

Though I start to wonder if pop coverage even matters with AT&T and Verizon's push into mega-expansion of DAS.

They likely already started identifying expansion areas and going through the red tape before the announcement in October about expanding native coverage to 300 million POPs.

 

With the red tape work going on in parallel to the upgrade work on the existing network (reaching 285 million POPs), they can roll out immediately after they complete the existing network upgrade (which will be complete in June based on current projected estimates, but based on their own ability to execute, it'll likely be done by the end of March to mid May).

 

The rollout to the additional 15 million POPs will probably be complete by the end of 3Q next year, based on past and current performance on execution. 

[lou99/maximus1987]

How is T-Mobile going to cover 300 million people with 700 mhz, when it's not even available in 30+ states, and in the states it is there are restrictions or its not statewide?

 

I can't understand how they expect to reach those numbers. Can Sprint even hit 300 million with LTE 800?

 

Edit: 30+ states might be an overstatement. I'm not entirely sure on the numbers, I just went through and counted the states from the spectrum map from a while back.

I don't think he specifically said 300mil with 700a.