T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[Dkoellerwx]

AJ I know you are trying to be funny so I'll extend a courtesy laugh to you and your ignorance.

Pulling an AJ...

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuJwfsV1Ux8

[WiWavelength]

AJ I know you are trying to be funny so I'll extend a courtesy laugh to you and your ignorance.

Gina, you would be wise to do a little bit of background -- find out what I have researched and written about wireless for more than the last decade -- before you prematurely call me out on my "ignorance." Additionally, read a few more of my posts here -- I am kind of a funny guy. Know when I am serious and when I am not. When I say "largely in jest," do you know what that means?

 

When did Sprint become the luxury carrier for the well to do?  What dimension of space is this even reality?

Ha, that is a straw man argument. You made it. I did not.

 

Look, FYI, you have been pegged as a T-Mobile troll at other sites. That said, we welcome you and hope that you stay. S4GRU is unprecedented in the level of detail that it offers about the network of any major operator. If you have serious interest in the wireless industry, you will find much to like here. But trolling will not be tolerated.

 

AJ

[IamMrFamous07]

Now it would be nice if some one with deep pockets other than AT&T, Softbank or Verizon sunk money in to buy T-mobile to then upgrade there 2G foot print to 4G LTE, got rid of the pink and the T-mobile name and rebooted there rep so that they could better fight the big two.

 

Also the mobile broadband plans are over priced, they need to lower them or redo the pricing on those. ( Not cell phone plan's, hotspot/tablet plans.)

 

Isn't dish going after them now?

[maxsilver]

T-Mobile and Sprint cater and fight for 2nd and 3rd tier customers who value paying less money a month in exchange for a lesser network experience.  Walk into any Sprint store and it's like going to the DMV.  I've had to deal with their retail (corporate owned employees and Business reps alike for years.  They stand out and not always in a good way. 

 

Sprint customers looking to buy accessories have to compete with customers trying to pay their 2 month past due statements in cash.

This is correct. "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

 

It's true, T-Mobile/MetroPCS stores are sometimes very "ghetto". But any insult slammed at a MetroPCS store can equally be slammed at a Sprint/Boost Mobile store, which are also very "ghetto". They're effectively identical in terms of the stereo-typically poor clientele they cater to.

 

There's no point in trying to pretend one is "less ghetto" than the other. It's common knowledge they're both chasing the same market.

[Deval]

(Plug your ears sensitive ones). When I was in the TMO store, I saw ghetto people and white trash as indicated by their clothes and manner of talking. That's what we're talking about. And that's what Legere is talking about. More hip is code for ghetto ie poorer. More specifically, there is a correlation if not a causality between how one acts and one's income. You're not gonna see an engineer with his pants 1/4 falling off with tattoos. Legere knows his only chance is the low end so he adjusts his advertising to attract said demographic. "THAT'S SO ELITIST AND RACIST!" I told you to plug your ears if they're sensitive to the truth.

 

 

I will tell you this, I'm an engineer, and I'm a Sprint customer, and I'm hip enough to be wearing a tailored slim fit suit to work.

 

That's my definition of hip  , for NYC at least.

[Deval]

Speaking of being politically incorrect:  Sprint retail stores are just as "ghetto," as T-Mobile.  Talk about the pot calling the kettle black... for real.

 

Regular customers (not Sprint employees or enthusiasts)..... don't choose Sprint for coverage nor do they choose Sprint for their incredibly fast 3G speeds because we all know neither are there.  They choose Sprint because they are cheaper than the more well known incumbents.  Sprint, like T-Mobile will continue to offer unlimited data as long as they have to in order to attract the value conscious.  

 

This isn't a knock on Sprint but it's reality if you want to go there. 

 

I agree, to a certain extent. While the vast majority of urban Sprint stores are located in areas which are just as "ghetto", I can safely say that there are MANY that I have worked out of, or visited, that are just as normal as the rest.

[maximus1987/lou99]

Isn't dish going after them now?

No articles indicating this, only speculation that they should/might/could.

The fact that they're trying to acquire Lightsquared (from bankruptcy) makes it harder for me to believe that Dish's ultimate goal is to sell all its spectrum to ATT et al and merge with Directv.

Edited August 6, 2013 by qpotlk1134

[maximus1987/lou99]

Gina, you would be wise to do a little bit of background -- find out what I have researched and written about wireless for more than the last decade -- before you prematurely call me out on my "ignorance." Additionally, read a few more of my posts here -- I am kind of a funny guy. Know when I am serious and when I am not. When I say "largely in jest," do you know what that means?

 

 

Ha, that is a straw man argument. You made it. I did not.

 

Look, FYI, you have been pegged as a T-Mobile troll at other sites. That said, we welcome you and hope that you stay. S4GRU is unprecedented in the level of detail that it offers about the network of any major operator. If you have serious interest in the wireless industry, you will find much to like here. But trolling will not be tolerated.

 

AJ

This is at least the second time you've identified people as TMO trolls. Do you have your own personal Stasi? Lol

[Deval]

I was around when Sprint bought Nextel.  The Sprint fanboys were in the same utopia as they are now.  They thought they were going to rule the wireless world with the best coverage, best PTT offering, best phones, best speeds and highest ARPU.  They were going to destroy Verizon and dominate the US wireless market.  

 

2.5 GHz networks have great capacity capabilities but the range is abysmal.  With best efforts building out new sub 1 GHz networks and PCS networks from scratch are poor and spotty at best.  2.5 GHz will be even worse.  I doubt Son is dumb enough to pour in the capital to build out 2.5 GHz to the extent needed to be ubiquitous and will instead only use it in the most dense urban markets where the highest needs are.  

 

Facts are that Softbank, as successful as they were in Japan, are not guaranteed to replicate this success State-side.  By many accounts even in Japan their service "sucks."  The United States is a market unlike no other on earth and the challenges to build out far exceed anything SoftBank has ever had to encounter.  The incumbents will not make it easy for them either.  

 

A large part of Softbank's Japanese success was in part to being an exclusive provider of the iPhone.  Here the carriers compete by having the best phones exclusive to themselves or pricing themselves down down down.  Son doesn't want to allow the competitors to capitalize on growing data revenues while he offers unlimited data with capped fees.  

 

I'm trying to find the interview he made with a reporter where he claimed he would have to continue to offer "unlimited data," as long as Sprint's network was poor in comparison to their competitors.  

 

I've been around since before Sprint offered flip phones, and I can tell you, the sheer number of Sprint haters and detractors have said the same "sky is falling" message, and Sprint is still here.

[WiWavelength]

This is at least the second time you've identified people as TMO trolls. Do you have your own personal Stasi? Lol

 

I am only reporting what someone else wrote, coincidentally, quite recently.  I have friends and colleagues in wireless forums and social media all around the Internet.

 

And there are plenty of people online who seemingly do nothing but post about the operator of their choice or promote things like Aio Wireless.

 

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

Does anyone else even know about GoSmart mobile? I haven't seen any advertisements for it and the only way I discovered it is through fiercewireless.

It's a Tmobile brand that only offers data AND voice on TMO native network.

If you only need voice and text, at $30 the only better deal is metro's promo $25 so they can clear out their CDMA phones.

 

$35 - adds unlimited 2g data

$45 - 5 GB @900 Kbps then 2g

Edited August 6, 2013 by qpotlk1134

[cletus]

Does anyone else even know about GoSmart mobile? I haven't seen any advertisements for it and the only way I discovered it is through fiercewireless. It's a Tmobile brand that only offers data AND voice on TMO native network. If you only need voice and text, at $30 the only better deal is metro's promo $25 so they can clear out their CDMA phones. $35 - adds unlimited 2g data $45 - 5 GB @900 Kbps then 2g

This is sort of off-topic but I would enthusiastically recommend against this MVNO for two reasons. 1) The customer service is absurdly bad and to get one of my relatives issues fixed I ended up spending 45 minutes on hold. 2) This is the T-Mobile NATIVE network which means you get about as much coverage as a G-string. Great for the beach but terrible for cellphone service. You are better off picking almost any MVNO from any other carrier because what absolutely will happen is that you will leave the urban area with good signal and suddenly have no service at all. No voice/No texts/No data. I tried out the T-Mobile native network on their $30 plan and I was shocked that people continue to recommend it as the greatest thing ever. 

 

If you must try out T-Mobile, http://www.solavei.com/ has roaming (but is expensive). Otherwise, maybe net10 wireless for the AT&T network with roaming. On the Sprint side, Ting is a good bet https://za8ilf19763.ting.com/ (shameless referral link for $25 off my bill and yours) that allows roaming on Verizon. If you go with a MVNO with no roaming I recommend AT&T or Verizon. Unfortunately while the Sprint network is leaps and bounds better in terms of coverage than T-Mobile it still cannot beat the rural coverage that AT&T and Verizon currently have,

[maximus1987/lou99]

If you're completely within the TMO network, it is the greatest thing ever.

I did state that it only worked on TMO network.

 

Yeah, I'm sure cust service is horrible. It's not Verizon lol.

Edited August 6, 2013 by qpotlk1134

[maximus1987/lou99]

Regarding TMO as a mvno host, I'm surprised that some vendor hasn't come up with a SIM card that allows an mvno to dynamically switch operators.

That way, straight talk would switch only to ATT where TMO doesn't have WCDMA.

 

But looks like ATT doesn't want ST anymore.

 

http://www.talkandroid.com/149593-straight-talk-no-longer-offering-att-compatible-sims/

 

[maximus1987/lou99]

Hey, in Japan, SoftBank, not then a telecom company, bought out Vodafone KK. So, do not count out a new entrant. Maybe McDonalds will buy out T-Mobile. Their customer bases ought to be complementary.

 

 

AJ

I don't think you're far off but it would be Walmart who'd pull the trigger before McDonalds.

They're already selling "family mobile" on TMO network and with shared plans (I think).

 

Besides dish, this is the only real acquirer i can think of now. Would Walmart buy 20 MHz of 600 MHz and upgrade all 15k rural towers? Eh. Probably only upgrade where they have a Walmart store.

But at least we'd keep a 4th semi national competitor.

Edited August 6, 2013 by qpotlk1134

[maximus1987/lou99]

I was around when Sprint bought Nextel. The Sprint fanboys were in the same utopia as they are now. They thought they were going to rule the wireless world with the best coverage, best PTT offering, best phones, best speeds and highest ARPU. They were going to destroy Verizon and dominate the US wireless market.

 

2.5 GHz networks have great capacity capabilities but the range is abysmal. With best efforts building out new sub 1 GHz networks and PCS networks from scratch are poor and spotty at best. 2.5 GHz will be even worse. I doubt Son is dumb enough to pour in the capital to build out 2.5 GHz to the extent needed to be ubiquitous and will instead only use it in the most dense urban markets where the highest needs are.

 

Facts are that Softbank, as successful as they were in Japan, are not guaranteed to replicate this success State-side. By many accounts even in Japan their service "sucks." The United States is a market unlike no other on earth and the challenges to build out far exceed anything SoftBank has ever had to encounter. The incumbents will not make it easy for them either.

 

A large part of Softbank's Japanese success was in part to being an exclusive provider of the iPhone. Here the carriers compete by having the best phones exclusive to themselves or pricing themselves down down down. Son doesn't want to allow the competitors to capitalize on growing data revenues while he offers unlimited data with capped fees.

 

I'm trying to find the interview he made with a reporter where he claimed he would have to continue to offer "unlimited data," as long as Sprint's network was poor in comparison to their competitors.

Have you looked at all 117 slides of softbank's q2 PDF investor presentation? Link is in the "new sprint" thread. I have. Every single slide.

 

Their subscriber count has been continuously increasing, profit and revenue increasing, debt continuously decreasing (except for sprint purchase) ...

I've never been to Japan but if that's what a "sucky" service is able to do, bring it on.

 

Yes, unlimited data will eventually go away for new customers but that'll prolly be in 1.5+ years when the network is rocking and if TMO hasn't kicked it into high gear. But I don't think we'll see anywhere near the pricing as duopoly.

 

My most favoritist slide is the one that shows arpu vs time in Japan. Softy's stayed constant near 4,360 yen while kddi's and ntt's converged to Softy's all while constantly increasing softy's profits.

 

You can't look at today's situation and equate it with Nextel acquisition. The only similarity is "sprint entered into an acquisition agreement".

1) Sprint will be operating LTE+CDMA and soon only LTE with a multi-modal network architecture. This means - I think - LTE and CDMA baseband processing will be running on same network equipment. When CDMA is done, the processing power is shifted to handle more LTE. ???is this technically correct AJ???

No equipment to throw away once CDMA is done ???except some antennas???

 

2) CDMA+LTE phones are market proven.

3) Mr. Son knows what he's doing. I really recommend looking at Softy's slides. All 117 pages.

4) sprint has the moola to buy us cellular, Cspire and anyone else it wants to.

[WiWavelength]

That guy is 1/1000000.

I don't think you're far off but it would be Walmart who'd pull the trigger before McDonalds.

 

Masayoshi Son, be damned.  I was going to make a joke about not underestimating the power of Ray Kroc.  But you may be on to something.  Something Wall-Mart this way comes.  Be afraid, be very afraid.

 

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s08e09-something-wall-mart-this-way-comes

 

AJ

[Manny789]

2) This is the T-Mobile NATIVE network which means you get about as much coverage as a G-string.

Best line ever!

[Keitarou]

Who cares if an operator is considered ghetto vs not. If they work for you, it works for you. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. I never understood why people needed to defend "their" carriers. It's just a cell phone... geez.

[koiulpoi]

Who cares if an operator is considered ghetto vs not. If they work for you, it works for you. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. I never understood why people needed to defend "their" carriers. It's just a cell phone... geez.

Because a capitalist, materialist society encourages consumers to define themselves by the brands they purchase and surround themselves with, instead of individual achievements, goals, or ideals. If all your personal energy goes in to buying things, you are those things.

[WiWavelength]

Do it, Charlie, do it...

 

So what merger options remain for Dish in the wireless industry?

 

"That’s really probably only T-Mobile at this time.” Ergen said.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/boosters_bits/2013/08/dishs-thwarted-sprint-bid-made-money.html

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

Do it, Charlie, do it...

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/boosters_bits/2013/08/dishs-thwarted-sprint-bid-made-money.html

 

AJ

I saw that story. Would he really be talking about TMO openly if he were serious? Wouldn't that drive up stock price of TMO!

[bigsnake49]

I saw that story. Would he really be talking about TMO openly if he were serious? Wouldn't that drive up stock price of TMO!

 

I think the possibility that TMo is an M&A target has been baked into the stock price already.

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/dishs-ergen-singles-out-t-mobile-potential-wireless-ma-partner/2013-08-07

 

For a more detailed perspective.

 

I'm sure that Dish and Sprint will butt heads over T-Mobile. He does have very complimentary things to say about Softbank and Sprint. I just wish he was not so confrontational and headstrong about acquiring Sprint or Clearwire.

[MacinJosh]

Regarding TMO as a mvno host, I'm surprised that some vendor hasn't come up with a SIM card that allows an mvno to dynamically switch operators.

That way, straight talk would switch only to ATT where TMO doesn't have WCDMA.

 

But looks like ATT doesn't want ST anymore.

 

http://www.talkandroid.com/149593-straight-talk-no-longer-offering-att-compatible-sims/

Ah, but you are wrong about that. This was posted yesterday at phonenews.com

 

http://www.phonenews.com/straighttalk-att-sim-cards-return-to-online-store-in-select-markets-23215/

[maximus1987/lou99]

Ah, but you are wrong about that. This was posted yesterday at phonenews.com

 

http://www.phonenews.com/straighttalk-att-sim-cards-return-to-online-store-in-select-markets-23215/

Ok. What about the virtual sim tech? That'd be a gold mine for mvnos: TMO covers 228mil with HSPA+ so only switch to ATT outside of TMO WCDMA coverage.