Network Vision/LTE - West Washington Market (Seattle/Puget Sound Region)

[pnw_wildcat]

Purple denotes 4G completion and yellow denotes 4G and 3G completion on a tower

 

Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

 

Does "4G completion" hopefully mean LTE completion? Sorry, I'm new here and 4G means LTE and/or WiMax to me.

 

Also, do we know if Sprint is launching Cat. 3 or Cat. 4 LTE? Or, is that something that is phone-dependent? I know that some of the new phones hitting the market are Cat. 4 but didn't know if they are just jumping the gun like usual.

 

Thank you.

[fuunkychicken]

Does "4G completion" hopefully mean LTE completion? Sorry, I'm new here and 4G means LTE and/or WiMax to me.

 

Also, do we know if Sprint is launching Cat. 3 or Cat. 4 LTE? Or, is that something that is phone-dependent? I know that some of the new phones hitting the market are Cat. 4 but didn't know if they are just jumping the gun like usual.

 

Thank you.

I'm not as knowledgeable when it comes to the technical details of the 4G LTE rollout, however the term "4G completion" I used was in reference to 4G LTE.

 

From my understanding the maps you are looking at with the different colored pins do not reflect WiMax

 

Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

 

 

[oversight]

59 updates?!

 

What happened, did they hire someone to do acceptances or did he come back from leave?

 

Either way, some good news.  

[drlovety]

Interesting: http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2013/11/testers-find-wireless-networks.html

 

Sprint went from a score of 50 to 80 percent.

 

Anyway, still not impressed, very bitter about this and do not see a reason to stick with Sprint.  For me, it's not the speed, it's coverage and their coverage stinks.  I'm extreme bummed about their 800mhz not including the Puget Sound area.  The 2.5Ghz won't matter at all either, as I don't live under a tower.

[WiWavelength]

Interesting: http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2013/11/testers-find-wireless-networks.html

 

Sprint went from a score of 50 to 80 percent.

 

Anyway, still not impressed, very bitter about this and do not see a reason to stick with Sprint.  For me, it's not the speed, it's coverage and their coverage stinks.  I'm extreme bummed about their 800mhz not including the Puget Sound area.  The 2.5Ghz won't matter at all either, as I don't live under a tower.

 

Then, feel free to leave for another wireless operator that you think will better suit your needs.  The grass almost always looks greener on the other side.  When you get a closer look, well, hope for the best.

 

And please remember that S4GRU is not the place for Sprint complaints.  Your post does not cross the line, but it could be worded in a more objective way.  Particularly, the assertion that TD-LTE 2600 is irrelevant because you "don't live under a tower" is an inappropriate exaggeration.

 

AJ

[drlovety]

Then, feel free to leave for another wireless operator that you think will better suit your needs.  The grass almost always looks greener on the other side.  When you get a closer look, well, hope for the best.

 

And please remember that S4GRU is not the place for Sprint complaints.  Your post does not cross the line, but it could be worded in a more objective way.  Particularly, the assertion that TD-LTE 2600 is irrelevant because you "don't live under a tower" is an inappropriate exaggeration.

 

AJ

 

AJ-

 

First off, I started my post that showed that Sprint had improved per the article.  I then talked about my personal experience.  You stated yourself that I didn't cross the line, but your post seemed to suggest otherwise.  Maybe it was my comment about living under a tower.  I read the article from WSJ where it describes Sprint needing 13 to 15 sites to compete with 700 Mhz.  To me, that is significant, especially living in Seattle where we are surrounded my unforgiving terrain and will not see 800 Mhz for an undetermined amount of time.  Also, I can't see how Sprint can justify the cost to build 13 to 15 more sites per one 700 Mhz, the reason for my time to change carrier comment.

 

Again, I'm not a Sprint hater and did not come here to make people mad.  I like you, hate people that try to do that.  However, I am not excited about the TD-LTE announcement as I don't believe people in my region will reap the benefits (please forgive me if this is considered a compliant).

 

Go Sprint!

[Bob Newhart]

Do you have a link to the article about needing that number of sites to equal the 700 Mhz coverage area?

 

I was over in Hoquiam today, saw good signals for Sprint LTE and AT&T LTE, mapped some areas, as soon as we got a little out of town on the 101, both cells went to zero signal of any kind. No roaming on Verizon either.

 

Don't think there any towers out that way.

[WiWavelength]

I read the article from WSJ where it describes Sprint needing 13 to 15 sites to compete with 700 Mhz.  To me, that is significant, especially living in Seattle where we are surrounded my unforgiving terrain and will not see 800 Mhz for an undetermined amount of time.  Also, I can't see how Sprint can justify the cost to build 13 to 15 more sites per one 700 Mhz, the reason for my time to change carrier comment.

 

Sprint is not going to build that many additional sites.  The point in the article is to describe the number of sites that would be required for 2600 MHz to achieve coverage parity with 700 MHz.  But Sprint does not need 2600 MHz to achieve parity because Sprint has at least 1900 MHz to serve as its foundation.  If nothing else, the 2600 MHz coverage will serve those in the cores of 1900 MHz cells, thereby freeing up 1900 MHz capacity.

 

AJ

[aloha]

Some notes about NV in Western Washington:

 

There are no 800 MHZ RRH's going up anywhere in the 'Seattle' market, which runs from 40 miles or so north of Portland to the Canadian Border and from the Pacific Ocean to the Cascade Mountains - that said, East Washington supposedly IS getting 800mhz RRH's - The sites are wired to allow installation of the RRH's (breakers and fiber are already in) at a later date however.

 

The rumor is, is that there is supposedly a shortage of cabinets, which is some of why acceptance has slowed to a crawl.

 

As evidenced by NV upgraded sites, Backhaul not RAN is the underlying performance issues with the legacy Lucent network. Consider that a common setup for the CDMA gear was 6 bonded T's to a site. and that was it. meaning at the very most 9 megs shared among the sites users.

 

There has been no wholesale conversion of iDEN sites to CDMA - that said, any iDEN site built after 2006 or so has an CDMA cabinet in it - something else to note - the iDEN sites are all spaced for 800 eSMR - not 1900 PCS.

Edited November 5, 2013 by aloha

[fuunkychicken]

The Lakewood/Tacoma area is getting lots of love.

 

I noticed my Nexus 5 and LG G2 is on 4G LTE in more and more places. Especially near the Lakewood Town Center and along much of So. Tacoma Way

 

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

 

 

[oversight]

I noticed that my phone was in 4G here in the south Juanita area for a few seconds the other day when I was sitting at the intersection of 116th and 98th. I'd seen it before, several months ago, but not since then. It would be nice if they would get site next to Juanita Beach up and running full time.  I also noticed a 4G icon for a couple of seconds when I was at work in Yarrow Bay.  

 

One of these days...

[VEllisWade]

The Lakewood/Tacoma area is getting lots of love.

 

I noticed my Nexus 5 and LG G2 is on 4G LTE in more and more places. Especially near the Lakewood Town Center and along much of So. Tacoma Way

 

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

 

If I had to guess, this is in part due to that band 41/2500 mhz LTE. In my condo (downtown Seattle) I can't get LTE with my Sierra Tri-Fi because it only has 1900 LTE, and the 2 closest towers to me have yet to be turned on. I switched to the Netgear Zing, and now I pick up a few bars of LTE, and decent speed (15-20 Mbps). At the same time, my Tri-Fi's WiMax coverage has declined steadily. Not a coincidence, me thinks, as I seem to recall an article from a few weeks ago starting that Sprint was already starting to convert some WiMax markets over to 2.5Ghz LTE, including the Seattle/WW market.

Edited November 10, 2013 by VEllisWade

[ericdabbs]

Interesting: http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2013/11/testers-find-wireless-networks.html

 

Sprint went from a score of 50 to 80 percent.

 

Anyway, still not impressed, very bitter about this and do not see a reason to stick with Sprint.  For me, it's not the speed, it's coverage and their coverage stinks.  I'm extreme bummed about their 800mhz not including the Puget Sound area.  The 2.5Ghz won't matter at all either, as I don't live under a tower.

 

You do know that the reason why Sprint is not deploying 800 MHz CDMA or LTE is because Seattle is in the Canadian IBEZ area.  It is NOT because Sprint hates Seattle.  If anything blame Canada and the US for having to use the same 800 MHz spectrum for public safety and iDEN.  It is going to take some time for the US and Canada to work out the interference issues before Sprint can go back and deploy 800 MHz CDMA and LTE.

 

Also if you have a triband LTE device it is having trouble connecting to LTE due to the eCSFB issue where Samsung has to go and upgrade to NV 3G on all the purple 4G only towers.  Once that is complete the triband LTE devices can get LTE in the purple areas which is most of metro Seattle.

[Bob Newhart]

Any idea when the Nexus5's LTE will start working in this area?

 

This is a Samsung market, so the CSFB issue is everywhere here that I have seen, haven't seen LTE since switching from the s3 to the n5.

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/5001-breaking-band-tri-band-lte-ecsfb-issues-thread/page-12&do=findComment&comment=237461

[isajym]

LTE is available in a lot of Seattle metro areas, but their towers are not placed densely enough to provide service in large buildings.

 

Because of the IBEZ buffer from Canada, without them installing new towers, our service won't improve. So we have to accept what we have now.

 

I have seen removed towers that used to be Nextel, so they aren't interesting in expanding coverage here either. Maybe they'll just wait several years for the IBEZ situation to be worked out.

 

Maybe they'll purchase and add 600 Mhz in the years to come, that would help for sure.

So until/if that happens, our coverage won't improve. 

so you are able to pickup lte on 2500 or 1900 band?

[oversight]

so you are able to pickup lte on 2500 or 1900 band?

 

1900 is available in quite a few areas around the Puget Sound area.  I've not seen any 2600 connections as of yet.

[Bob Newhart]

1900 is available in quite a few areas around the Puget Sound area.  I've not seen any 2600 connections as of yet.

 

I haven't put my n5 into that mode yet.

 

Here is a map of the LTE so far in this area.

http://sensorly.com/fullscreen/map/4G/US/USA/Sprint/lte_310sprint#q=98003

[oversight]

Last Wednesday, I checked my phone while waiting for the bus at 98th & 116th in Juanita (right by Michael's and was surprised to see a steady 4G LTE on my S3.  It was only one bar and the connection wasn't speedy, but the signal was steady. Hoping they finish whatever they are doing to that site and turn it up soon.

 

[aloha]

You're likely on an adjacent tower when you took this screenshot, LTE has just not been turned up there yet.

 

 

Last Wednesday, I checked my phone while waiting for the bus at 98th & 116th in Juanita (right by Michael's and was surprised to see a steady 4G LTE on my S3.  It was only one bar and the connection wasn't speedy, but the signal was steady. Hoping they finish whatever they are doing to that site and turn it up soon.

 

[aloha]

Tower Mounted RRU's will actually help quite a bit, they effectively lower the noise floor for the band by a couple db. This makes all the difference with CDMA/LTE.

[oversight]

Possible I suppose, though the next closest towers with LTE are North Juanita, West near St Edwards park, and South well past Forbes creek. None of those impact the south Juanita area.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Bob Newhart]

Tower Mounted RRU's will actually help quite a bit, they effectively lower the noise floor for the band by a couple db. This makes all the difference with CDMA/LTE.

 

Does an increase of 3db mean about twice the signal strength?

[aloha]

I'd have to sit down and work out the math.

 

That said, no - at least not in the way our handsets measure signal strength (aka, bars, in absolute signal, yes), a 3db change would be enough to change a place from a place where voice calls may not work at all, or unreliably to a place where voice calls work quite reliably. It will turn the marginal and fringe into more reliable spots.

 

I believe that most of the problems we experience are backhaul, not RAN related. NV replaces the problematic backhaul, in the places where NV has rolled out, I've seen a great improvement in call stability and data speeds, even when I cant get LTE.

 

 

 

 

Does an increase of 3db mean about twice the signal strength?

Edited December 4, 2013 by aloha

[aloha]

To clarify - twice the signal in raw numbers, doesnt work out to twice the performance.

 

I'd have to sit down and work out the math.

 

That said, no - at least not in the way our handsets measure signal strength (aka, bars, in absolute signal, yes), a 3db change would be enough to change a place from a place where voice calls may not work at all, or unreliably to a place where voice calls work quite reliably. It will turn the marginal and fringe into more reliable spots.

 

I believe that most of the problems we experience are backhaul, not RAN related. NV replaces the problematic backhaul, in the places where NV has rolled out, I've seen a great improvement in call stability and data speeds, even when I cant get LTE.

[JThorson]

I'm curious if anyone knows. I live in Lake Forest Park, north end of Lake Washington and every month for the past 4-5 months the tower(s) have gone down for a number of days. Anyone have any idea what might be going on?

 

Thanks in advance.