Network Vision/LTE - Chicago Market

[S4GRU]

Band41 is the savior for that which is Sprint's LTE, Spark, and Network Vision.  They should be pounding this fact at every opportunity possible.

 

And, in my opinion, there are probably opportunities to expedite Band 41 deployment even faster.  It's my biggest criticism of Sprint.  I think they could have Band 41 complete on WiMax sites in approximately 6 months, and on every Network Vision LTE site that doesn't require permits within six months.  

 

If Tmo can do an LTE overlay in 9 months, Sprint needs to do the same with Band 41.  Excuses with this are nothing more than excuses.  And Band 26 should be able to deployed on every active Band 25 site (outside the IBEZ in the 3-4 months).  Anything longer is just a failure to prioritize and manage.

Robert

[Joeynach]

And, in my opinion, there are probably opportunities to expedite Band 41 deployment even faster.  It's my biggest criticism of Sprint.  I think they could have Band 41 complete on WiMax sites in approximately 6 months, and on every Network Vision LTE site that doesn't require permits within six months.  

 

If Tmo can do an LTE overlay in 9 months, Sprint needs to do the same with Band 41.  Excuses with this are nothing more than excuses.  And Band 26 should be able to deployed on every active Band 25 site (outside the IBEZ in the 3-4 months).  Anything longer is just a failure to prioritize and manage.

Robert

Care to attend the next shareholders conference?

[jamisonshaw125]

Care to attend the next shareholders conference?

Video conference with Mr. Son?

[drock2750]

And, in my opinion, there are probably opportunities to expedite Band 41 deployment even faster.  It's my biggest criticism of Sprint.  I think they could have Band 41 complete on WiMax sites in approximately 6 months, and on every Network Vision LTE site that doesn't require permits within six months.  

 

If Tmo can do an LTE overlay in 9 months, Sprint needs to do the same with Band 41.  Excuses with this are nothing more than excuses.  And Band 26 should be able to deployed on every active Band 25 site (outside the IBEZ in the 3-4 months).  Anything longer is just a failure to prioritize and manage.

Robert

 

That was similar to the criticism I read on Fierce Wireless. Sprint is building the Winchester Mystery Mansion of cellular networks.

Edited February 12, 2014 by drock2750

[S4GRU]

That was similar to the criticism I read on Fierce Wireless. Sprint is building the Winchester Mystery Mansion of cellular networks.

 

It's nothing compared to the band hodgepodge that AT&T is forced to do.  At least when Spark is complete, 80%+ of all Sprint LTE traffic will likely be on one band.

 

Robert

[smalltimehack]

Do you have B41 enabled on that?

Just now read this. No I do not. I meant to get my msl when I was at work a little earlier in the day but it slipped my mind. All of this was standard band 25.

[bitslizer]

Any news regarding 800 LTE for the Chicago market yet?

 

I was in theater district last night and was only pulling 6-10mbps on Band 41 even with -85 to -95db RSRP on my one max

Edited February 12, 2014 by bitslizer

[Joeynach]

Any news regarding 800 LTE for the Chicago market yet?

 

I was in theater district last night and was only pulling 6-10mbps on Band 41 even with -85 to -95db RSRP on my one max

Glad to hear you picked up B41 in the Loop.  Question though did you get that 6-10Mbps while inside the theater, I am curious about the indoor coverage on B41.  And I would consider 6-10Mbps a very good speed for downtown, that represents a 30x to 50x increase over LTE speeds on B25 these days down there, which are around 200K off peak hours (after 7PM in Loop).

[bitslizer]

Glad to hear you picked up B41 in the Loop.  Question though did you get that 6-10Mbps while inside the theater, I am curious about the indoor coverage on B41.  And I would consider 6-10Mbps a very good speed for downtown, that represents a 30x to 50x increase over LTE speeds on B25 these days down there, which are around 200K off peak hours (after 7PM in Loop).

 

I should have been more clear.

 

I was getting 6-10mbps on B41 last evening about 7pm while I was sitting inside a restaurant call Siam Rice on Wells, windows seat to get the -85 to -95 db RSRP

 

I was still on B41 while inside the Cadillac palace theater, balcony near the top, but I did not do a speed test there, and I think the signal was fairly weak.

 

 

However, I was also near the same area back in Dec (lunch time) and I was able to get 20mbps with even weaker signal strength

[Joeynach]

I should have been more clear.

 

I was getting 6-10mbps on B41 last evening about 7pm while I was sitting inside a restaurant call Siam Rice on Wells, windows seat to get the -85 to -95 db RSRP

 

I was still on B41 while inside the Cadillac palace theater, balcony near the top, but I did not do a speed test there, and I think the signal was fairly weak.

 

 

However, I was also near the same area back in Dec (lunch time) and I was able to get 20mbps with even weaker signal strength

Oh yeah Siam Rice, I know that spot, its right on Wells under the El tracks.  I do a lot of speed testing over there because I use the Washington/Wells El Stop everyday and always have a few min to kill waiting for my train.

[briank101]

And Band 26 should be able to deployed on every active Band 25 site (outside the IBEZ in the 3-4 months).  Anything longer is just a failure to prioritize and manage.

Robert

 

Once both band 26 and 41 are active, the performance of the actual hand off between these bands could be what makes or breaks the user experience as they go from high signal to low signal areas on band 41 and suddenly the user is on an air link constrained band 26 if hand off logic isn't carefully optimized. Band 41 needs to be the default with band 26 being the "emergency" back up air link, with band 25 being a 2nd back up (though not optimal) when 26 is at air link capacity. Not sure how the switching logic is implemented now on Sprint devices and whether it is seamless to someone using VOIP or streaming.   Poor hand off logic could come back to haunt Sprint if this isn't done right, regardless of spectrum availability.

 

I don't have a Spark device, but if anyone would know what would be the typical % of the users in an urban environment that would be in an area of poor band 41 coverage, after full deployment? If it's 10% or less the back up LTE bands may be fine, any greater and there may be some concerns.

[Joeynach]

Once both band 26 and 41 are active, the performance of the actual hand off between these bands could be what makes or breaks the user experience as they go from high signal to low signal areas on band 41 and suddenly the user is on an air link constrained band 26 if hand off logic isn't carefully optimized. Band 41 needs to be the default with band 26 being the "emergency" back up air link, with band 25 being a 2nd back up (though not optimal) when 26 is at air link capacity. Not sure how the switching logic is implemented now on Sprint devices and whether it is seamless to someone using VOIP or streaming.   Poor hand off logic could come back to haunt Sprint if this isn't done right, regardless of spectrum availability.

 

I don't have a Spark device, but if anyone would know what would be the typical % of the users in an urban environment that would be in an area of poor band 41 coverage, after full deployment? If it's 10% or less the back up LTE bands mThat ay be fine, any greater and there may be some concerns.

Become a premier sponsor and that can be determined by eyeballing the coverage maps and tower pins for the B41 and B26 sites.

[briank101]

Anyone with a Spark phone care to share their handoff experience between band 41 and band 25 say when streaming. Seamless or not?

[lilotimz]

Anyone with a Spark phone care to share their handoff experience between band 41 and band 25 say when streaming. Seamless or not?

Unnoticeable.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5

 

 

[kyle_4thousand]

Anyone with a Spark phone care to share their handoff experience between band 41 and band 25 say when streaming. Seamless or not?

 

Half the time I don't notice. I have noticed at times the LTE symbol will disappear for about 10 seconds during a handoff, whether it be from 25 to 41 or 41 to 25. I may have a disrupted internet connection for a few seconds but I haven't had a song change or tried browsing when this happens because I am usually driving. 

 

And I'm on a Nexus 5 WITHOUT a Spark update, so I'm sure whenever we do get the update it will only improve.

[Joeynach]

Let us know if service improves in the immediate area. Any help with service downtown is appreciated.

 

 

Vince

I was in River North last nite and connected to the new LTE tower in question.  I was at Grand and State, probably 800 feet or so away from the tower.  It was 8PM on a sleepy Wed night, but I received the best speeds and best LTE signal strength I have seen in 6 months.  I tested both indoors and outdoors at this location, got 9Mbps down indoors and 12Mbps down outdoors.  I will have to check again during more crowded times for this area like Friday or Sat nights and see what the results are then.

[Vince]

I have had an incredible amount of dropped calls this week. Mostly on the south side, a few in Harvey. Anyone else experiencing this? I've always praised Sprint for their voice quality and coverage in this area, and can't even remember my last dropped call. Probably during NV upgrades.

 

 

Vince

[tongboy]

I have had an incredible amount of dropped calls this week. Mostly on the south side, a few in Harvey. Anyone else experiencing this? I've always praised Sprint for their voice quality and coverage in this area, and can't even remember my last dropped call. Probably during NV upgrades. Vince

That is really strange. Do you have another phone you can try? Like you I can't remember the last time I had a dropped call...

 

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

 

 

[Joeynach]

I have had an incredible amount of dropped calls this week. Mostly on the south side, a few in Harvey. Anyone else experiencing this? I've always praised Sprint for their voice quality and coverage in this area, and can't even remember my last dropped call. Probably during NV upgrades. Vince

Happens every once in awhile for me.  Occasionally, I am in the south suburbs I will check it out next time I'm down there.

[drock2750]

I've been dropping a ton of calls in Wrigley. Just got the Evo LTE upgrade to 4.3 so I'll see if it continues.

[S4GRU]

Any news regarding 800 LTE for the Chicago market yet?

 

I was in theater district last night and was only pulling 6-10mbps on Band 41 even with -85 to -95db RSRP on my one max

 

Not all Band 41 sites have Spark upgraded backhaul yet.  If the site you were connected to was on just the original WiMax backhaul, it may only do 6-10Mbps even with hardly anyone on the same LTE carrier/sector.  Also, without LTE Engineering screens, we don't know if you had a good quality signal.  You may have had a lot of interference.

 

Additionally, we assume you verified that you were on Band 41 because you looked at your LTE Engineering screen and not merely because you saw the Spark logo.  The Spark logo shows no matter which band you're on.  The only way conclusively to know which band you're on is in the Engineering screen, of course.

 

No matter what it was in your circumstances, 6-10Mbps sounds like a triumph for a busy area at a peak time.  Sprint would have been a complete disaster there in the past.  And 6-10Mbps is the average that most of the other providers run too.  Triumph, I say!  

 

Robert

[bitslizer]

Not all Band 41 sites have Spark upgraded backhaul yet.  If the site you were connected to was on just the original WiMax backhaul, it may only do 6-10Mbps even with hardly anyone on the same LTE carrier/sector.  Also, without LTE Engineering screens, we don't know if you had a good quality signal.  You may have had a lot of interference.

 

Additionally, we assume you verified that you were on Band 41 because you looked at your LTE Engineering screen and not merely because you saw the Spark logo.  The Spark logo shows no matter which band you're on.  The only way conclusively to know which band you're on is in the Engineering screen, of course.

 

No matter what it was in your circumstances, 6-10Mbps sounds like a triumph for a busy area at a peak time.  Sprint would have been a complete disaster there in the past.  And 6-10Mbps is the average that most of the other providers run too.  Triumph, I say!  

 

Robert

 

I was able to pull 20+mbps with similar signal strength back in early December during lunch time , at very nearly the same location (1 block north, 1 block west), I didn't remember the base station ID but since its like 0.1 or 0.2 miles away only I think I'm most likely on the sam ebase station.  I would think Lunch time in Chicago loop is more "peak" then dinner time.

 

Yes I confirmed i was on B41 by looking at the LTE engineering screen ##33284#

 

I was wondering if the additional Spark devices brought by Sprint customer since December have already started degrading B41...?

[Vince]

 

I was wondering if the additional Spark devices brought by Sprint customer since December have already started degrading B41...?

Not likely. A single site (or it's sector) could have maybe been bogged down by users at the exact time you were there, but as a market, it will take some time (if ever) for it to bog down. It's a larger slice of spectrum, and can accommodate more traffic. Like Robert mentioned; the site probably didn't have it a backhaul upgraded. Even 20mbps back in December would be slow on an unloaded sector. Spark is really fast, and should be in the 25-35 range, and peak in the mid-to-upper 50's. Then again, it all depends on signal, distance, users, etc..

 

 

Vince

[lilotimz]

Btw. 20 mbps is a unloaded old clearwire wimax backhaul sector. Loaded it's more in the 6-12 mbps range during the day and during down hours it usually hovers around 12-15 mbps under limited load. 20 mbps is practically no one on it. 

[S4GRU]

I was able to pull 20+mbps with similar signal strength back in early December during lunch time , at very nearly the same location (1 block north, 1 block west), I didn't remember the base station ID but since its like 0.1 or 0.2 miles away only I think I'm most likely on the sam ebase station.  I would think Lunch time in Chicago loop is more "peak" then dinner time.

 

Yes I confirmed i was on B41 by looking at the LTE engineering screen ##33284#

 

I was wondering if the additional Spark devices brought by Sprint customer since December have already started degrading B41...?

 

I would say that B41 degradation is nearly impossible at this time.  It is a 20MHz channel.  It has multiples amount of capacity over even a 5MHz channel.  And there are still very few Triband devices out there.  I would be shocked if Triband adoption rate was even above 5% yet.

 

Also, two things come to mind with the additional information you have provided.  Number one, it is possible that you were on different Band 41 sites/sectors from the 20Mbps speed test you had previously and the one now.  Number two, if you only were getting 20Mbps earlier when B41 had almost no one on it at all and getting something less than 50-60Mbps, then I feel like I can almost conclusively say you were not on a site with upgraded Spark backhaul (then or now).

 

If you were indeed at an off peak time for LTE, then why would it be even slower now?  I'll tell you why.  Because WiMax peak time is the evening when the Home ISP customers start surfing their porn and other video streaming.  If you were using WiMax backhaul, you would much more likely to feel it at night.  Double entendre intended.

 

I feel pretty comfortable ruling out a Band 41 capacity instance in your circumstance, and figuring the issue in this instance is old WiMax backhaul.  When it gets upgraded, the Band 41 LTE speeds will go way up.

 

And Band 41 capacity should never be a concern.  Because capacity continues to grow exponentially with each additional site that goes live.  And Sprint can add between 3 and 8 additional Band 41 carriers in each market to every single site.  Way more than any other provider.  So fear not.

 

Robert