Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[danlodish345]

7 hours ago, RedSpark said:

I certainly hope they haven’t stopped and I’m glad to see they haven’t. The issue is the disconnect between what Marcelo said in September 2015 (http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/18/technology/sprint-network/index.html) and where the Network is currently tracking as far as Band 41 deployment on Macro Sites goes (http://newsroom.sprint.com/triband-upgrades.htm). If Sprint was truly making “meaningful” investments since Marcelo said “leapfrog” in September 2015, wouldn’t Sprint be much further along than 60% by now? Wouldn’t they need to be if they wanted to deliver on his Network promises?

The 60% figure is as of a June 5, 2018 Blog Post, so perhaps it’s a little higher by now as you said. Sprint says it will have Band 41 on a “substantial majority” of its Macro Sites by end of Fiscal 2018, and that’s April/May 2019. We don’t know what that amounts to though and there’s no mention of when 100% will be achieved.

As you said, the work continues... hopefully ahead of schedule.

what about improvements to overall network expansion and improvement within their foot print? i m waiting to see if that happens...sprint would be a better option for me if they improved over all coverage inside my town...still roaming holes and pockets of no service....sprint has improved band 41 coverage on the main high way but overage network coverage off the main highway leaves alot to be desired..

[Johnner1999]

what about improvements to overall network expansion and improvement within their foot print? i m waiting to see if that happens...sprint would be a better option for me if they improved over all coverage inside my town...still roaming holes and pockets of no service....sprint has improved band 41 coverage on the main high way but overage network coverage off the main highway leaves alot to be desired..

My towns have appeared to regress...


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[danlodish345]

My towns have appeared to regress...


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East Brunswick New Jersey with in terms to Sprint band 41 coverage along the main Highway has improved. But off the main highway there has been a marginal if not any Improvement. I really just wish you would come in and put up a new cell site in there by even for Verizon it's hard to reach including T-Mobile and AT & T. So there's a lack of density for all the carriers.

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[danlodish345]

On 6/24/2017 at 11:24 AM, Tengen31 said:

I didn't say B2 should go away. Devices should have both. But too include The G block in any channel wideing will require B25. TMobile Galaxy S8 has both bands.

 

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Well also think that Sprint has ties to a Chinese phone manufacturer so the deal is going to really be scrutinized very carefully. If they aren't willing to make a sacrifice with the phone manufacturer then the government may put the kibosh on the deal.

[Johnner1999]

Well also think that Sprint has ties to a Chinese phone manufacturer so the deal is going to really be scrutinized very carefully. If they aren't willing to make a sacrifice with the phone manufacturer then the government may put the kibosh on the deal.

Huh?

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[danlodish345]

Huh?

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There's a news article out that states that Sprint has ties with the Chinese phone manufacturer https://www.tmonews.com/2018/07/u-s-lawmakers-security-concerns-t-mobile-sprint-merger-sprints-ties-huawei/


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[dkyeager]

If Sprint had gotten som 600Mhz it would likely have more reason to merge. Unlikely to have deployed any 600Mhz and less money for immediate network improvements.

“Nationwide” has been used as an amorphous term by Sprint.
Sprint says it has a nationwide network, but that it needs to merge with T-Mobile to have a nationwide network and be a viable competitor to Verizon/AT&T which have nationwide networks... and that its future as a nationwide competitor isn’t viable, leaving it relegated to being a market-trailing 4th Place player.
Sprint told us it didn’t need 600 MHz to be “nationwide”... and now it’s telling us it needs it to be “nationwide”. What a shift, but I’m not the one who moved the goalposts. Sprint did.
Not sure why you say 600 MHz has little net benefit for consumers. If Sprint had gotten some, it wouldn’t need to merge with T-Mobile.
Finally, Sprint needs Coverage in rural areas. It would have been better off acquiring 600 MHz than continuing CCA Roaming Agreements in my opinion.
Just my take.

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[dkyeager]

Sprint really botched it with the regulators (Mobilitie certainly didn’t help) and in my opinion, it never should have gone down the non-traditional Network build road to begin with.
Sprint made a bad situation worse... and here we are.

Both Sprint efforts and the merger are a high stakes gamble with no guarantee of success. They are just trying to pick the right path with limited resources. Masa has always stated that being successful in wireless is a question of scale. Interesting for us to watch, but we don't have all the details. Basically you have a marketing company taking over an engineering company that did not have enough cash. The attempted failed paths make the argument for the merger.

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[Johnner1999]

11 hours ago, danlodish345 said:

There's a news article out that states that Sprint has ties with the Chinese phone manufacturer https://www.tmonews.com/2018/07/u-s-lawmakers-security-concerns-t-mobile-sprint-merger-sprints-ties-huawei/


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Correct -- but thats Sprint... I believe TMO was planning on Nokia for 5G 

[RedSpark]

5 hours ago, dkyeager said:

If Sprint had gotten som 600Mhz it would likely have more reason to merge. Unlikely to have deployed any 600Mhz and less money for immediate network improvements.

 

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I disagree.

600 MHz would have enabled Sprint to have a more efficient build and cover wider swaths of land including rural areas than a 2.5 GHz deployment provides, and in the short term, that could really help.

We kept hearing from Sprint that 2.5 GHz was more cost efficient to deploy than Millimeter Wave. That’s true... However, the real truth/dirt came out in the FCC Filing and Congressional Hearing that Sprint couldn’t actually achieve an economically viable nationwide build on its 2.5 GHz and that combining with T-Mobile for its 600 MHz was essential.

Meanwhile, T-Mobile is deploying 600 MHz across the country at tremendous speed.

Of course we were told by the CFO of Sprint at the time (https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/sprint-cfo-robbiati-600-mhz-spectrum-past)

“Why invest in 600 MHz spectrum if that spectrum doesn’t really cater for the future, and also it’s spectrum you cannot deploy for four years?” Robbiati asked rhetorically.

Sigh...

[nexgencpu]

54 minutes ago, RedSpark said:

I disagree.

600 MHz would have enabled Sprint to have a more efficient build and cover wider swaths of land including rural areas than a 2.5 GHz deployment provides, and in the short term, that could really help.

We kept hearing from Sprint that 2.5 GHz was more cost efficient to deploy than Millimeter Wave. That’s true... However, the real truth/dirt came out in the FCC Filing and Congressional Hearing that Sprint couldn’t actually achieve an economically viable nationwide build on its 2.5 GHz and that combining with T-Mobile for its 600 MHz was essential.

Meanwhile, T-Mobile is deploying 600 MHz across the country at tremendous speed.

Of course we were told by the CFO of Sprint at the time (https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/sprint-cfo-robbiati-600-mhz-spectrum-past)

“Why invest in 600 MHz spectrum if that spectrum doesn’t really cater for the future, and also it’s spectrum you cannot deploy for four years?” Robbiati asked rhetorically.

Sigh...

So you believe Sprint had the finances to create a new ecosystem of devices, fight TV stations occupying the spectrum (This sounds all too familiar *cough*cough...800Mhz) and deploy new sites with 600Mhz capability at a reasonable rate to see a return on that investment anytime soon? All this, knowing you were gonna have to split all that spectrum with the likes of ATT and Tmobile, meaning you would end up with an average of no more than 10-15mhz of 600Mhz. Also, with talks of the merger with T-mobile, them being 100% committed to the auction out of pure need. 

The fact is, if Sprint would have commited the proper amount of Capex last year and year before like they are this year, they would have completed B41 deployment on almost all macro sites and they could have devoted more time in expanding and densifying.

But now, they have to do both at the same time, which is easier said than done.

[Trip]

2 hours ago, nexgencpu said:

fight TV stations occupying the spectrum

Not clear what you're talking about here.  The TV stations are being compensated for their moves, and that work is on-going.  Many have been desperate to move earlier, rather than later, to get a hold of the new equipment as soon as they can.  Phase 1 of the transition hasn't arrived yet, and already about 25 TV stations have moved.

- Trip

[nexgencpu]

34 minutes ago, Trip said:

Not clear what you're talking about here.  The TV stations are being compensated for their moves, and that work is on-going.  Many have been desperate to move earlier, rather than later, to get a hold of the new equipment as soon as they can.  Phase 1 of the transition hasn't arrived yet, and already about 25 TV stations have moved.

- Trip

The key word is "compensation" T-mobile has gone the extra mile to speed the process up. Sprint is in no position to spend more for these types scenarios.

[RedSpark]

2 hours ago, nexgencpu said:

So you believe Sprint had the finances to create a new ecosystem of devices, fight TV stations occupying the spectrum (This sounds all too familiar *cough*cough...800Mhz) and deploy new sites with 600Mhz capability at a reasonable rate to see a return on that investment anytime soon? All this, knowing you were gonna have to split all that spectrum with the likes of ATT and Tmobile, meaning you would end up with an average of no more than 10-15mhz of 600Mhz. Also, with talks of the merger with T-mobile, them being 100% committed to the auction out of pure need. 

The fact is, if Sprint would have commited the proper amount of Capex last year and year before like they are this year, they would have completed B41 deployment on almost all macro sites and they could have devoted more time in expanding and densifying.

But now, they have to do both at the same time, which is easier said than done.

T-Mobile is moving along quite rapidly on the 600 MHz rollout: https://www.t-mobile.com/news/extended-range-lte-puerto-rico (June 6, 2018)

“The Un-carrier today unveiled that it has now lit up 600 MHz Extended Range LTE in more than 900 cities and towns across 32 states, bringing T-Mobile LTE coverage into 120 places for the very first time. Now, T-Mobile will bring 600 MHz Extended Range LTE to Puerto Rico this fall, providing more LTE coverage and capacity than ever before and laying the foundation for 5G with 5G-ready equipment.”

Sprint had the finances to spend on overhauling retail stores, buying Radio Shack stores and doing the Carfone Warehouse experiment, none of which was necessary. This money should have gone towards 600 MHz.

The “600 MHz ecosystem” part is already happening. These devices support it:

LG G7 ThinQ™

LG K30™

LG V30™

Samsung Galaxy S8 Active

Samsung Galaxy S9

Samsung Galaxy S9 Plus

——————

Apple will likely have a 600 MHz compatible iPhone this fall as well.

As we all know, Sprint’s 800 MHz also has very limited capacity versus T-Mobile’s 600 MHz. Even 10-15 MHz of 600 MHz deployed across Sprint’s footprint would have meant low band spectrum across the country, including in areas that 800 MHz isn’t yet available or very limited. I’m not exactly sure when the 800 MHz rebanding is finally going to finish up, but let’s say it takes another year or two. Where do you think T-Mobile will be with its 600 MHz deployment at that point?

Furthermore, even with 2.5 GHz fully deployed with sufficient capex spend in in the last year or two, Sprint has said in its FCC Filing that’s not enough for a competitive national footprint.

[dkyeager]

Not clear what you're talking about here.  The TV stations are being compensated for their moves, and that work is on-going.  Many have been desperate to move earlier, rather than later, to get a hold of the new equipment as soon as they can.  Phase 1 of the transition hasn't arrived yet, and already about 25 TV stations have moved.
- Trip

T-Mobile did make extra payments to speed up the process, something more difficult to do with government safety organizations on 800MHz, especially with limited cadh flow. https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/t-mobile-pay-some-lptv-repack-moves-167217


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[nexgencpu]

40 minutes ago, RedSpark said:

T-Mobile is moving along quite rapidly on the 600 MHz rollout: https://www.t-mobile.com/news/extended-range-lte-puerto-rico (June 6, 2018)

“The Un-carrier today unveiled that it has now lit up 600 MHz Extended Range LTE in more than 900 cities and towns across 32 states, bringing T-Mobile LTE coverage into 120 places for the very first time. Now, T-Mobile will bring 600 MHz Extended Range LTE to Puerto Rico this fall, providing more LTE coverage and capacity than ever before and laying the foundation for 5G with 5G-ready equipment.”

Sprint had the finances to spend on overhauling retail stores, buying Radio Shack stores and doing the Carfone Warehouse experiment, none of which was necessary. This money should have gone towards 600 MHz.

The “600 MHz ecosystem” part is already happening. These devices support it:

LG G7 ThinQ™

LG K30™

LG V30™

Samsung Galaxy S8 Active

Samsung Galaxy S9

Samsung Galaxy S9 Plus

——————

Apple will likely have a 600 MHz compatible iPhone this fall as well.

As we all know, Sprint’s 800 MHz also has very limited capacity versus T-Mobile’s 600 MHz. Even 10-15 MHz of 600 MHz deployed across Sprint’s footprint would have meant low band spectrum across the country, including in areas that 800 MHz isn’t yet available or very limited. I’m not exactly sure when the 800 MHz rebanding is finally going to finish up, but let’s say it takes another year or two. Where do you think T-Mobile will be with its 600 MHz deployment at that point?

Furthermore, even with 2.5 GHz fully deployed with sufficient capex spend in in the last year or two, Sprint has said in its FCC Filing that’s not enough for a competitive national footprint.

Adding another 5x5 swath of spectrum that a tiny portion of your users can take advantage of for years makes no sense. Sprint can barely walk and chew gun at the same time. Why delay or slow down deployment of B41 to deploy spectrum that will be congested almost instantly. 

The cost of purchasing and deploying 600mhz will end up costing upwards of 10billion dollars. I'd way rather see that 10billion be spent on forward thinking established B41 than 600mhz.

[Trip]

58 minutes ago, nexgencpu said:

The key word is "compensation" T-mobile has gone the extra mile to speed the process up. Sprint is in no position to spend more for these types scenarios.

 

4 minutes ago, dkyeager said:

T-Mobile did make extra payments to speed up the process, something more difficult to do with government safety organizations on 800MHz, especially with limited cadh flow. https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/t-mobile-pay-some-lptv-repack-moves-167217


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Yes, but that doesn't constitute "fighting."  Moreover, there was no requirement for them to do so.

- Trip

[nexgencpu]

5 minutes ago, Trip said:

 

Yes, but that doesn't constitute "fighting."  Moreover, there was no requirement for them to do so.

- Trip

My use of the word "fighting" was figuratively speaking. Maybe a better suited word would have been challenges.

I think the use of the word fighting for me comes from the massive roadblocks Sprint has experienced over the last decade or so. From ibez, to huawei issues,  NIMBY, Wimax etc..

Sprint just can't seem to catch a damn break.

[dkyeager]

T-Mobile is moving along quite rapidly on the 600 MHz rollout: https://www.t-mobile.com/news/extended-range-lte-puerto-rico (June 6, 2018)
“Even 10-15 MHz of 600 MHz deployed across Sprint’s footprint would have meant low band spectrum across the country..."

Hmmm Sounds like about what Sprint got with its Nextel purchase: 10-15 MHz equals 5MHz up, 5MHz down, 1.25MHz of 1x800 up 1.25MHz of 1x800 down. The first sites to move are easy compared to those at the end. The FCC offers almost no help at that point given what we have seen with 800MHz. I am also not so certain 600MHz coverage is any greater than 800MHz in square miles.



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[Johnner1999]

T-Mobile is moving along quite rapidly on the 600 MHz rollout: https://www.t-mobile.com/news/extended-range-lte-puerto-rico (June 6, 2018)
“The Un-carrier today unveiled that it has now lit up 600 MHz Extended Range LTE in more than 900 cities and towns across 32 states, bringing T-Mobile LTE coverage into 120 places for the very first time. Now, T-Mobile will bring 600 MHz Extended Range LTE to Puerto Rico this fall, providing more LTE coverage and capacity than ever before and laying the foundation for 5G with 5G-ready equipment.”
Sprint had the finances to spend on overhauling retail stores, buying Radio Shack stores and doing the Carfone Warehouse experiment, none of which was necessary. This money should have gone towards 600 MHz.
The “600 MHz ecosystem” part is already happening. These devices support it:
LG G7 ThinQ[emoji769]
LG K30[emoji769]
LG V30[emoji769]
Samsung Galaxy S8 Active
Samsung Galaxy S9
Samsung Galaxy S9 Plus
——————
Apple will likely have a 600 MHz compatible iPhone this fall as well.
As we all know, Sprint’s 800 MHz also has very limited capacity versus T-Mobile’s 600 MHz. Even 10-15 MHz of 600 MHz deployed across Sprint’s footprint would have meant low band spectrum across the country, including in areas that 800 MHz isn’t yet available or very limited. I’m not exactly sure when the 800 MHz rebanding is finally going to finish up, but let’s say it takes another year or two. Where do you think T-Mobile will be with its 600 MHz deployment at that point?
Furthermore, even with 2.5 GHz fully deployed with sufficient capex spend in in the last year or two, Sprint has said in its FCC Filing that’s not enough for a competitive national footprint.

I recall some regular posters here, I think even Robert too. Mentioned TMO and Neville wouldn't be able to get 600mhz up too quickly.

Seems Neville has basically brought up a new infrastructure in less than 16 months.

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[utiz4321]

4 hours ago, nexgencpu said:

Adding another 5x5 swath of spectrum that a tiny portion of your users can take advantage of for years makes no sense. Sprint can barely walk and chew gun at the same time. Why delay or slow down deployment of B41 to deploy spectrum that will be congested almost instantly. 

The cost of purchasing and deploying 600mhz will end up costing upwards of 10billion dollars. I'd way rather see that 10billion be spent on forward thinking established B41 than 600mhz.

Hopefully they don't attempt to chew gun, that would likely end badly. 

[nexgencpu]

35 minutes ago, utiz4321 said:

Hopefully they don't attempt to chew gun, that would likely end badly. 

Ha! At this point it seems they aren't far from it.

[RedSpark]

4 hours ago, dkyeager said:

 

 

Hmmm Sounds like about what Sprint got with its Nextel purchase: 10-15 MHz equals 5MHz up, 5MHz down, 1.25MHz of 1x800 up 1.25MHz of 1x800 down. The first sites to move are easy compared to those at the end. The FCC offers almost no help at that point given what we have seen with 800MHz. I am also not so certain 600MHz coverage is any greater than 800MHz in square miles.



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So even this amount would have effectively doubled Sprint’s lowband spectrum. That would have made a huge difference in Sprint’s national footprint.

Neville was able to stand up this spectrum in an incredibly short period of time and have an appreciable number of devices support it.

[RedSpark]

4 hours ago, nexgencpu said:

Adding another 5x5 swath of spectrum that a tiny portion of your users can take advantage of for years makes no sense. Sprint can barely walk and chew gun at the same time. Why delay or slow down deployment of B41 to deploy spectrum that will be congested almost instantly. 

The cost of purchasing and deploying 600mhz will end up costing upwards of 10billion dollars. I'd way rather see that 10billion be spent on forward thinking established B41 than 600mhz.

The newest Samsung and LG Phones support it. Assuming the next iPhone coming later this year supports it, that’s substantial as well.

As for walking and chewing gum at the same time, that’s a management issue. I don’t know what to say, but T-Mobile made this deployment happen in about 1-1.5 years.

Sprint disclosed to the FCC the truth which I feared in the back of my mind as a worst case scenario despite Sprint’s assurances to the contrary: Even a complete Band 41 deployment isn’t enough for it to have a truly competitive national network footprint. The economics don’t come out favorably from what we’ve been told.

[S4GRU]

21 hours ago, RedSpark said:

T-Mobile is moving along quite rapidly on the 600 MHz rollout: https://www.t-mobile.com/news/extended-range-lte-puerto-rico (June 6, 2018)

“The Un-carrier today unveiled that it has now lit up 600 MHz Extended Range LTE in more than 900 cities and towns across 32 states, bringing T-Mobile LTE coverage into 120 places for the very first time. Now, T-Mobile will bring 600 MHz Extended Range LTE to Puerto Rico this fall, providing more LTE coverage and capacity than ever before and laying the foundation for 5G with 5G-ready equipment.”

Sprint had the finances to spend on overhauling retail stores, buying Radio Shack stores and doing the Carfone Warehouse experiment, none of which was necessary. This money should have gone towards 600 MHz.

The “600 MHz ecosystem” part is already happening. These devices support it:

LG G7 ThinQ™

LG K30™

LG V30™

Samsung Galaxy S8 Active

Samsung Galaxy S9

Samsung Galaxy S9 Plus

——————

Apple will likely have a 600 MHz compatible iPhone this fall as well.

As we all know, Sprint’s 800 MHz also has very limited capacity versus T-Mobile’s 600 MHz. Even 10-15 MHz of 600 MHz deployed across Sprint’s footprint would have meant low band spectrum across the country, including in areas that 800 MHz isn’t yet available or very limited. I’m not exactly sure when the 800 MHz rebanding is finally going to finish up, but let’s say it takes another year or two. Where do you think T-Mobile will be with its 600 MHz deployment at that point?

Furthermore, even with 2.5 GHz fully deployed with sufficient capex spend in in the last year or two, Sprint has said in its FCC Filing that’s not enough for a competitive national footprint.

Your memory conveniently rewrites history.  Sprint did not have the resources of T-Mobile to do that.  All your supposing is if Sprint and T-Mobile had exactly the same financial footing the day of the 600MHz auction.  Far from it.  And not only that, if Sprint had participated, everyone would have paid more for 600MHz too, and smaller blocks for everyone.  Sprint wouldn't have purchased for the same amount T-mo just did, they would have paid more.  And there is no way Sprint would have walked out of the auctions with as much spectrum as T-Mobile did.  Sprint could not afford to pay for 600MHz, let alone pay more for it by driving up the prices.  And then pay for the deployment of it.  You already complain about Sprint CapEx, but you would have required them to spend even more. 

You act like Sprint had unlimited resources.  That really has always been the issue all along.  They have had to focus on getting the best bang for the limited resources they have.  And the network is getting better and better.  It's been a fine line all along.  The big disappointment in the past 5 years in my mind is that Masayoshi Son never swept in with more capital.  That was the expectation all along.  A couple of extra cash infusions at the right times the past 5 years could have catapulted Sprint far forward in the race.  Maybe even prevented T-Mobile from taking 3rd Place.

Sprint never really received an outside infusion but was forced to reorganize and fund internally with the resources they had or could muster on their own.  Which were good moves for financially security.  However, additional capital on top of that really would have gone a long way.  But it is still quite amazing what Sprint did pull off without the additional capital infusions.

But your would haves, should haves, could haves of Sprint are not founded in financial reality and not reflective of the history as I recall it.  And they are not useful now for what is going on, not constructive to help Sprint in the future or a combined company in the future.  It's just meant to make you look superior in the eyes of a couple of Sprint naysayers now, after the fact.  And I won't let you get away with that here.

Robert