Jump to content

Band 25/26 & 41 CA


Recommended Posts

So I was looking over approved carrier aggregation combinations at the following site:

http://niviuk.free.fr/lte_ca_band.php

 

And saw band 25+26, 25+41, and 26+41. I remembered a while back Sprint mentioned it was working on getting TD and FD LTE to play nice with each other for CA. Does this mean we'll soon see 25/26+41 CA in the real world?

 

WUjlfKm.png

yLHnR63.png

 

I also noticed band 25+25 CA:

 

vhSOpmP.png

 

I guess my question is, do you think we'll notice any CA involving 25/26? Would be cool to see CA slightly increase the range of band 41 by using 25/26 as the uplink.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not yet.

 

There are LTE release 13/14 specifications which far exceed what is currently capable on sprints LTE rel 9/10 b25/26 equipment.

 

Intraband non contiguous b25CA is a possibility in the near future.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope so sprint needs to do FDD carrier CA. The 5x5 speeds are bad. Tho its not as helpful as doing 10x10 because, you have to buy a new phone that supports it. However there wlll always be places where Band 41 can't reach, that 25 and, 26 can.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope so sprint needs to do FDD carrier CA. The 5x5 speeds are bad. Tho its not as helpful as doing 10x10 because, you have to buy a new phone that supports it. However there wlll always be places where Band 41 can't reach, that 25 and, 26 can.

Usually B25 and B26 are pretty heavily loaded, so CA on them by themselves isn't really helpful. What would be useful is aggregation with B41, or using the B25 uplink and B41+B25 for downlink (perhaps favoring B41 if that's possible).

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Usually B25 and B26 are pretty heavily loaded, so CA on them by themselves isn't really helpful. What would be useful is aggregation with B41, or using the B25 uplink and B41+B25 for downlink (perhaps favoring B41 if that's possible).

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P

That will only work in places where you can get b41. Sprint has a cell site on the roof of the building where i work and, i still can't get b41 in some areas band 25 and, 26 I can.

 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That will only work in places where you can get b41. Sprint has a cell site on the roof of the building where i work and, i still can't get b41 in some areas band 25 and, 26 I can.

 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

MY experience is that the B-41 antennas really send the signal out in a horizontal manner much more than Band 25 or 26.  The band 25 & 26 antennas surely are designed to send the signal out horizontally too, but you can be directly under them and still get a reasonably good signal.  But it seems in my personal experience with it, the band 41 signal just does not seem to go down under the antennas much at all.    If you get back from the antennas a little and get height, the signal gets much better. I sometimes think that having b-41 antennas on a nearby building is much better than having them on the roof of the building you are in. 

I get a poor signal on B-41 standing under a tower that is out in the open let alone on top of a building.

 

Yes, you could see a situation where a building with B-41 antennas on top has very good signal in the building, but if you do, there may have been some special effort to bring the signal into the building.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MY experience is that the B-41 antennas really send the signal out in a horizontal manner much more than Band 25 or 26.  The band 25 & 26 antennas surely are designed to send the signal out horizontally too, but you can be directly under them and still get a reasonably good signal.  But it seems in my personal experience with it, the band 41 signal just does not seem to go down under the antennas much at all.    If you get back from the antennas a little and get height, the signal gets much better. I sometimes think that having b-41 antennas on a nearby building is much better than having them on the roof of the building you are in. 

I get a poor signal on B-41 standing under a tower that is out in the open let alone on top of a building.

 

Yes, you could see a situation where a building with B-41 antennas on top has very good signal in the building, but if you do, there may have been some special effort to bring the signal into the building.

 

the 8tx8r antennas are supposed to have both transmit and receive diversity. That in conjunction with beam forming allows B41 to expand its coverage area farther than is possible with simpler antenna panels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to see B25 + B26 CA together on Sprint when the next LTE release is made available.  Unfortunately B26 LTE by itself is way too slow to be optimal and gives customers a very bad impression.

 

Tmobile does B4 + B12 CA and I think it has worked out well.  I don't know how the propagation characteristics work out when you combine low band and mid band spectrum.  Does the LTE signal have the propagation as if it is low band, mid band or in between?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to see B25 + B26 CA together on Sprint when the next LTE release is made available.  Unfortunately B26 LTE by itself is way too slow to be optimal and gives customers a very bad impression.

 

Tmobile does B4 + B12 CA and I think it has worked out well.  I don't know how the propagation characteristics work out when you combine low band and mid band spectrum.  Does the LTE signal have the propagation as if it is low band, mid band or in between?

 

Propagation depends on the primary band since all upload is currently done on it, and uplink (communication from the phone to the tower) is the weakest link. So if B12 is primary, you get low band signal strength but comparatively slower upload speeds. If B4 is the primary, you get B4 propagation but fast upload speeds. Ideally the network should decide which is best for you, since you don't want to load everyone on B12 otherwise upload speeds will be terrible for all B12 users. A nice advantage is that having B12 as primary can extend B4 propagation since B4 as secondary is only using downlink (communication from the tower to the phone) and the tower obviously transmits a much more powerful signal. 

Edited by Volaris
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A nice advantage is that having B12 as primary can extend B4 propagation since B4 as secondary is only using downlink (communication from the tower to the phone) and the tower obviously transmits a much more powerful signal. 

 

I would have to double check, but I do not believe that LTE uses closed loop power control on the downlink.  In other words, no power boost just because the uplink is on a lower band and does not fail for a greater attenuation/distance.  The reference signals certainly are fixed ERP/EIRP.

 

AJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Stumbled across this - has anyone seen B26 CA in the wild yet?

 

0e36cfa5017f26beda91817f6951a164.png

 

Ummm. As far as I was aware, B26 CA with... anything was not possible given the current hardware at cell sites. Also don't recall devices that support B26 CA with... anything.

 

Sent from my LG G5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ummm. As far as I was aware, B26 CA with... anything was not possible given the current hardware at cell sites. Also don't recall devices that support B26 CA with... anything.

Sent from my LG G5

According to Gunther, it has already been implemented so I don't know what to make of that...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to Gunther, it has already been implemented so I don't know what to make of that...

 

Any chance he confused B25 / B26?  Latest set of phones does B25-B25 CA, and his answer makes sense in that context.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to Gunther, it has already been implemented so I don't know what to make of that...

 

Tim may have to correct me, but that would require new B26 RRU/RRHs, which I have not seen any indication of.

 

Any chance he confused B25 / B26?  Latest set of phones does B25-B25 CA, and his answer makes sense in that context.

 

I know I have heard about B25-B25 CA being talked about, but that would still require some changes at the site. I'm not sure which equipment is capable of B25 CA and which isn't. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tim may have to correct me, but that would require new B26 RRU/RRHs, which I have not seen any indication of.

 

 

I know I have heard about B25-B25 CA being talked about, but that would still require some changes at the site. I'm not sure which equipment is capable of B25 CA and which isn't.

Software upgrades for 25-25CA as that is LTE rel 10/11 and one of the early requests made by sprint to 3gpp back in 2011-2012.

 

25-26 / 25-41 / 26-41 is rel 13-14 which is a bit more ifty

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

This HPUE seems to be working on the other side.  Enhancing the equipment to provide "...an average 3dBm increase in performance..." on band 41.

 

 

Pocketnow article--

http://pocketnow.com/2016/12/13/sprints-hpue

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Software upgrades for 25-25CA as that is LTE rel 10/11 and one of the early requests made by sprint to 3gpp back in 2011-2012.

 

25-26 / 25-41 / 26-41 is rel 13-14 which is a bit more ifty

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

When do you see band 25 CA actually happening?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • large.unreadcontent.png.6ef00db54e758d06

  • gallery_1_23_9202.png

  • Posts

    • So, in summary, here are the options I tested: T-Mobile intl roaming - LTE on SoftBank, routes back to the US (~220ms to 4.2.2.4) IIJ physical SIM - LTE on NTT, local routing Airalo - LTE on SoftBank and KDDI (seems to prefer SoftBank), routed through Singapore (SingTel) Ubigi - 5G on NTT, routed through Singapore (Transatel) US Mobile East Asia roaming - 5G on SoftBank, routed through Singapore (Club SIM) Saily - 5G on NTT, routed through Hong Kong (Truphone)...seems to be poorer routing my1010 - LTE on SoftBank and KDDI (seems to prefer KDDI), routed through Taiwan (Chunghwa Telecom) I wouldn't buy up on the T-Mobile international roaming, but it's a solid fallback. If you have the US Mobile roaming eSIM that's a great option. Otherwise Ubigi, Airalo, or my1010 are all solid options, so get whatever's cheapest. I wouldn't bother trying to find a physical SIM from IIJ...the Japanese IP is nice but there's enough WiFi that you can get a Japanese IP enough for whatever you need, and eSIM flexibility is great (IIJ as eSIM but seems a bit more involved to get it to work).
    • So, the rural part of the journey still has cell service for nearly all the way, usually on B18/19/8 (depending on whether we're talking about KDDI/NTT/SoftBank). I think I saw a bit of B28 and even n28 early on in the trip, though that faded out after a bit. Once we got to where we were going though, KDDI had enough B41 to pull 150+ Mbps, while NTT and SoftBank had B1/B3 IIRC. Cell service was likewise generally fine from Kawaguchiko Station to Tokyo on the express bus to Shinjuku Station, though there were some cases where only low-band LTE was available and capacity seemed to struggle. I also figured out what I was seeing with SoftBank on 40 MHz vs. 100 MHz n77: the 40 MHz blocks are actually inside the n78 band class, but SoftBank advertises them as n77, probably to facilitate NR CA. My phone likely preferred the 40 MHz slices as they're *much* lower-frequency, ~3.4 GHz rather than ~3.9, though of course I did see the 100 MHz slice being used rather often. By contrast, when I got NR on NTT it was either n28 10x10 or, more often, 100 MHz n78. As usual, EMEA bands on my S24 don't CA, so any data speeds I saw were the result of either one LTE carrier or one LTE carrier plus one NR carrier...except for B41 LTE. KDDI seems to have more B41 bandwidth live at this point, so my1010 or Airalo works well for this, and honestly while SoftBank and NTT 5G (in descending order of availability) have 5G that's readily available it may be diminishing returns, particularly given that I still don't know how to, as someone not from Hong Kong, get an eSIM that runs on SoftBank 5G that isn't the USM "comes for free with the unlimited premium package" roaming eSIM (NTT is easy enough thanks to Ubigi). In other news, I was able to borrow someone's Rakuten eSIM and...got LTE with it. 40 Mbps down, 20 Mbps up, 40ms latency to Tokyo while in Tokyo...which isn't any worse than the Japan-based physical SIMs I had used earlier. But not getting n77 or n257 was disappointing, though I had to test the eSIM from one spot rather than bouncing around the city to find somewhere with better reception. It's currently impossible to get a SIM as a foreigner that runs on Rakuten, so that was the best I could do. Also, I know my phone doesn't have all the LTE and 5G bands needed to take full advantage of Japanese networks. My S24 is missing: B21 (1500 MHz) - NTT B11 (1500 MHz) - KDDI, SoftBank B42 (3500 MHz) - NTT, KDDI, SoftBank n79 (4900 MHz) - NTT Of the above, B42/n79 are available on the latest iPhones, though you lose n257, and I'm guessing you're not going to find B11/B21 on a phone sold outside Japan.
    • T-Mobile acquiring SoniqWave's 2.5 GHz spectrum  Another spectrum speculator down! T-Mobile is acquiring all of their BRS/EBS licenses and their leases. Details are lacking but it looks like T-Mobile might be giving them 3.45GHz in exchange in some of the markets where they're acquiring BRS/EBS to sweeten the deal and stay below the spectrum screen. Hopefully NextWave is at the negotiating table with T-Mobile so NYC can finally get access to the full BRS/EBS band as well.  — — — — — Edit: Turns out this is a spectrum swap where T-Mobile is basically giving them DoD spectrum in a bunch of markets in exchange for all of SoniqWave's BRS/EBS. SoniqWave will likely turn around and sell the DoD spectrum to AT&T whenever the FCC removes the 40MHz cap.
    • Maybe. The taller buildings on one side of the street all have Fios access and the NYCHA buildings are surrounded by Verizon macros that have mmWave. I don’t think this site will add much coverage. It’d be better off inside the complex itself.
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...