Marcelo Claure, Town Hall Meetings, New Family Share Pack Plan, Unlimited Individual Plan, Discussion Thread

[Fraydog]

Arysyn, on 09 May 2016 - 5:32 PM, said:

 

What I don't understand is that Verizon and Sprint both use CDMA, yet Sprint sounds great while Verizon is bad, really bad on CDMA (I doubt this is when he's been on VoLTE). When he use to be on Skype using it on his smartphone, the Skype voice quality was much better. That is, when his LTE connection was stable. Often, it dropped down to 1xRTT. even in decent signal areas.

 

I'm curious what the bitrate differences might be between Sprint and Verizon, but it seems that Verizon might be using the lowest available, or just a really low bitrate, as I've read online a few times that they do.

Since I'm using Verizon, I'll answer to the best of my ability. Verizon uses a codec called 4GV which is super compressed to extend coverage and compress data over 1X so they could have, first off, more data on EV-DO when they got the iPhone, and secondly, be able to more quickly transition people to LTE. That codec is extremely noticeably bad. Meanwhile Sprint is using EVRC-NW Service Option 73 which is far closer to VoLTE quality than 4GV is. That's the main reason why Sprint is way ahead of Verizon on voice quality.

 

On VoLTE call quality on Verizon is much better until it hits cross carrier. Then they use G.729 to send the calls out over the POTS telephone system between carriers and landlines. That too is a degradation of voice quality, but Verizon had G.729 for the longest time because that was never their quality degradation. On 4GV to POTS or cross carrier, the bottleneck is 4GV. Now on Verizon VoLTE it is G.729. Compare to AT&T and T-Mobile that use G.711 in their own cross carrier calls. Call quality from AT&T to T-Mobile or vice versa is pretty good. Now my memory is foggy on Sprint's choice but I believe it is also G.711 IIRC.

 

In short, Verizon is the biggest bottleneck to call quality and they never get called out for it because coverage, coverage, coverage.

 

Here's more reading on G.711 vs. G.729.

 

http://www.airespring.com/understanding-sip-trunking-using-g711-g729-codecs/

[Arysyn]

 

• Günther Ottendorfer was appointed Chief Operating Officer, Technology
• John Saw was promoted to Chief Technology Officer
• Junichi Miyakawa, Technical Chief Operating Officer, who was instrumental in developing the company’s network plans is now a senior technical adviser in the Office of the CEO and a liaison between Softbank and Sprint for network strategy.

There's a whole new crew running things from the top, and Marcelo/Tarek are ensuring this works its way down the chain. This is also much easier to manage through "One Sprint" with the Four Area Presidents (West, Central, South, Northeast) reporting directly to Marcelo and the Regional Presidents reporting to the Area Presidents. Marcelo has introduced structure and accountability into Sprint.

 

Hmm... While this idea is growing on me, I'd divide regions a bit different ever so slightly, and have regional presidents and vice presidents, rather than having the two distinguished president roles of both area and regional. I'd have a Northeast Region, a Southeast Region, a Central Region, a South Region, a North Region, a Southwest Region, and a Northwest Region. So, seven regions instead of four regions, but no "areas". Each region's president would have voting rights as a secondary board to the main board of directors, similar to this idea where the regional presidents are like the House of Representatives, whereas the main board of directors are the Senate. The regional vice presidents could be the local "congressmen/women".

[Arysyn]

In short, Verizon is the biggest bottleneck to call quality and they never get called out for it because coverage, coverage, coverage. 

 

Here's more reading on G.711 vs. G.729.

 

http://www.airespring.com/understanding-sip-trunking-using-g711-g729-codecs/

 

Thank you for the information, Fraydog. Do these poor quality codecs Verizon uses contribute in any way to dropped calls, or is that primarily just an issue of coverage and congestion? When I had Verizon in the 2000s, I experienced alot of dropped calls, despite Verizon claiming their network as being so great. Although, I'm hoping now that people are experiencing much better call quality on VoLTE, they will start to put more pressure on Verizon for their poor call quality. It seems for many years Verizon gotaway with it because of their reputation for coverage and their LTE buildout, but now with the added competition especially from Sprint growing and people being able to experience Sprint's excellent voice quality on calls, it'll hopefully cause Verizon to make some upgrades with its codecs if enough people start to complain.

[Fraydog]

Arysyn, on 09 May 2016 - 6:21 PM, said:

Thank you for the information, Fraydog. Do these poor quality codecs Verizon uses contribute in any way to dropped calls, or is that primarily just an issue of coverage and congestion?

Verizon is using 4GV to reduce and in some cases eliminate dropped calls. Here's where it doesn't translate in the real world, it reduces voice quality to mush. Lots of people accepted it for a long time because there weren't other good alternatives for voice quality. Then Sprint went EVRC-NW Service Option 73, T-Mobile went to AMR-WB over UMTS then over LTE, and AT&T went to full rate AMR-NB on UMTS and then AMR-WB over LTE.

 

Yet Verizon wins RootMetrics tests because voice quality is not accounted for. If it was they would get routed by the other carriers. There is so little testing of voice quality that it is crazy, frankly. Even Sprint's non HD Voice seems to be ahead of Verizon. I don't seem to notice call quality drops to Sprint CDMA all that much but I sure do to Verizon CDMA and I'm on the same damn network.

 

AT&T and T-Mobile are even farther ahead of Verizon and T-Mobile is even rolling out EVS which gets even better quality than AMR on a 9.6 Kbps bit rate. I'm not even sure that anyone else in the world has a live EVS network. I expect AT&T would be next on that train. AT&T actually beat T-Mobile on NumberSync and software defined networks and didn't get any credit from it on Reddit. Go figure.

[gusherb]

Since I'm using Verizon, I'll answer to the best of my ability. Verizon uses a codec called 4GV which is super compressed to extend coverage and compress data over 1X so they could have, first off, more data on EV-DO when they got the iPhone, and secondly, be able to more quickly transition people to LTE. That codec is extremely noticeably bad. Meanwhile Sprint is using EVRC-NW Service Option 73 which is far closer to VoLTE quality than 4GV is. That's the main reason why Sprint is way ahead of Verizon on voice quality.On VoLTE call quality on Verizon is much better until it hits cross carrier. Then they use G.729 to send the calls out over the POTS telephone system between carriers and landlines. That too is a degradation of voice quality, but Verizon had G.729 for the longest time because that was never their quality degradation. On 4GV to POTS or cross carrier, the bottleneck is 4GV. Now on Verizon VoLTE it is G.729. Compare to AT&T and T-Mobile that use G.711 in their own cross carrier calls. Call quality from AT&T to T-Mobile or vice versa is pretty good. Now my memory is foggy on Sprint's choice but I believe it is also G.711 IIRC.In short, Verizon is the biggest bottleneck to call quality and they never get called out for it because coverage, coverage, coverage.Here's more reading on G.711 vs. G.729.http://www.airespring.com/understanding-sip-trunking-using-g711-g729-codecs/

Oh good, you beat me to it so I didn't have to explain this for a second time today. The G.729 thing kinda soured my Verizon calling experience just a little because it introduced scratchiness and a reduction in overall call volume that annoyed me. It also didn't help that the majority of people I talk to are on AT&T so I was used to AMR-WB 12.6 on top of that from being on AT&T myself. My friend just switched from T-Mobile to VZW and it sounds like ASS. We can't use anything wifi based either because his router has poor range and he absolutely refuses to upgrade it, so I either get choppiness or muffledness depending if he's on wifi calling or 1x.

 

  

Verizon is using 4GV to reduce and in some cases eliminate dropped calls. Here's where it doesn't translate in the real world, it reduces voice quality to mush. Lots of people accepted it for a long time because there weren't other good alternatives for voice quality. Then Sprint went EVRC-NW Service Option 73, T-Mobile went to AMR-WB over UMTS then over LTE, and AT&T went to full rate AMR-NB on UMTS and then AMR-WB over LTE.Yet Verizon wins RootMetrics tests because voice quality is not accounted for. If it was they would get routed by the other carriers. There is so little testing of voice quality that it is crazy, frankly. Even Sprint's non HD Voice seems to be ahead of Verizon. I don't seem to notice call quality drops to Sprint CDMA all that much but I sure do to Verizon CDMA and I'm on the same damn network.AT&T and T-Mobile are even farther ahead of Verizon and T-Mobile is even rolling out EVS which gets even better quality than AMR on a 9.6 Kbps bit rate. I'm not even sure that anyone else in the world has a live EVS network. I expect AT&T would be next on that train. AT&T actually beat T-Mobile on NumberSync and software defined networks and didn't get any credit from it on Reddit. Go figure.

Sprint sound quality was always pretty good for me except that I always had robogarble in just about every call. I got sick of that and was happy to be on AT&T UMTS for calls even despite using AMR 5.9 most of the time. And now I use VoLTE of course.

Its a shame testing doesn't include sound quality, but at the same time I think the majority doesn't care/doesn't know any better.

[ingenium]

Oh good, you beat me to it so I didn't have to explain this for a second time today. The G.729 thing kinda soured my Verizon calling experience just a little because it introduced scratchiness and a reduction in overall call volume that annoyed me. It also didn't help that the majority of people I talk to are on AT&T so I was used to AMR-WB 12.6 on top of that from being on AT&T myself. My friend just switched from T-Mobile to VZW and it sounds like ASS. We can't use anything wifi based either because his router has poor range and he absolutely refuses to upgrade it, so I either get choppiness or muffledness depending if he's on wifi calling or 1x.

 

 

Sprint sound quality was always pretty good for me except that I always had robogarble in just about every call. I got sick of that and was happy to be on AT&T UMTS for calls even despite using AMR 5.9 most of the time. And now I use VoLTE of course.

Its a shame testing doesn't include sound quality, but at the same time I think the majority doesn't care/doesn't know any better.

Yeah I get robocarble on pretty much every call, even with a strong signal. I think a lot of the time the sites are over capacity and they drop the quality to support more calls.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P

[Fraydog]

Oh good, you beat me to it so I didn't have to explain this for a second time today. The G.729 thing kinda soured my Verizon calling experience just a little because it introduced scratchiness and a reduction in overall call volume that annoyed me. It also didn't help that the majority of people I talk to are on AT&T so I was used to AMR-WB 12.6 on top of that from being on AT&T myself. My friend just switched from T-Mobile to VZW and it sounds like ASS. We can't use anything wifi based either because his router has poor range and he absolutely refuses to upgrade it, so I either get choppiness or muffledness depending if he's on wifi calling or 1x.

The biggest shock is falling back to 1X on Verizon, I'll tell a story. Here in Chester there's a Mexican restaurant called Tequila's. It's a fairly infamous hell hole for cell service in the past because the place is more or less carved into a bluff. It was a typical Saturday night, we were sitting at the table eating Mexican food and drinking beer. I received a call from Mom sitting at the table and took the call, earlier noticing my phone fell back to EV-DO because data wasn't working well at all. Then I took the call falling back to 1X on VZW. I don't remember ever having a call sound that horrible. It might have been because I'm used to the better sound quality on Advanced Calling, but it sounded absolutely underwater. 

 

My friend who is one of the few people in town on AT&T was able to stay on LTE and things loaded very well for him in the same spot. I was shocked. Then people at the table started to notice he was on LTE since he was the only one on the table with LTE, and that was on an iPhone which isn't the strongest RF device in the world. 

 

That was when I started to think AT&T was really a viable alternative where I live after many years of talking down about them. 

[gusherb]

The biggest shock is falling back to 1X on Verizon, I'll tell a story. Here in Chester there's a Mexican restaurant called Tequila's. It's a fairly infamous hell hole for cell service in the past because the place is more or less carved into a bluff. It was a typical Saturday night, we were sitting at the table eating Mexican food and drinking beer. I received a call from Mom sitting at the table and took the call, earlier noticing my phone fell back to EV-DO because data wasn't working well at all. Then I took the call falling back to 1X on VZW. I don't remember ever having a call sound that horrible. It might have been because I'm used to the better sound quality on Advanced Calling, but it sounded absolutely underwater.

 

My friend who is one of the few people in town on AT&T was able to stay on LTE and things loaded very well for him in the same spot. I was shocked. Then people at the table started to notice he was on LTE since he was the only one on the table with LTE, and that was on an iPhone which isn't the strongest RF device in the world.

 

That was when I started to think AT&T was really a viable alternative where I live after many years of talking down about them.

When I had Verizon prepaid for a short while in June of last year, I made a call while in the car on the expressway and it sounded like they were talking through a kazoo. Someone on HoFo complained about that very thing happening and I didn't believe them, thinking it was just the usual muffled crap. Boy was I proven wrong, a kazoo couldn't have been a more accurate comparison. That's my worst voice experience on VZW. At home 1x was ok, not the usual muffled crap. But overall the call quality proved to be a complete deal breaker so I didn't stay on prepaid then.

 

In my experiences AT&T has done an extremely good job building out in ex Alltel territories. They've been giving VZW a serious run for its money since March 2011 in southwest Colorado. Funny story; my sister moved to Durango, CO in February 2011 and was roaming on Commnet, unknowingly since the alpha tag on her iP4 just showed "AT&T E". Well a month and 1,200 minutes later she got a call from them telling her they were gonna terminate her service for excessive roaming. Took her by surprise and she didn't know what to do. So me and my mother drove out there at the end of March and we discover that there was 3G, I said to my sister "wow I can't believe there's 3G all over this area" and then she told me that story followed by her saying "yeah it just showed up on my phone this morning". So I showed up in Southwest CO the very day AT&T lit up its brand new network.

[JimBob]

Yeah. But i think the fact they cant get any where argues that the market is better served by 3 players instead of four. It is an expensive industry with high fixed cost and it doesnt help that any podunk town or city can hold up deployment for some almost any retarded reason they want.

There is a recession every decade.  We are due or overdue  for a new one.  Sprint is currently nowhere near profitability.  With its $34 billion debt and all these crazy Softbank-engineered credit facilities, the company is barely surviving while the rest of the economy has grown the past 7 years.  A new recession within the next few years would be a mortal blow to the sick company, forcing the government to let Sprint merge or go bankrupt.

 

I dearly hope that I am wrong, so that  I can pull out the crapload of money I have spent on Sprint shares the past few years.

[SkyGuy98]

I've been just lurking for the last several days and it's fascinating to see everyone's thoughts and predictions.

 

I personally like the 4-carrier system (1 or 2 more wouldn't hurt, but it works fine), because of the competition and constant need for improvement in the bottom carriers (S & T right now). However, I can't help but wonder if S & T merged, if that might not make the market more competitive and crazy because the resulting company would have the brains and rich spectrum portfolio in Sprint, with the aggressive and innovative management @T in Legere and his network rollout team.

 

Really just something to think about, as I see no reason Sprint HAS to be bought out any time soon. ¡Viva Amarillo!

[Paynefanbro]

I've been just lurking for the last several days and it's fascinating to see everyone's thoughts and predictions.

 

I personally like the 4-carrier system (1 or 2 more wouldn't hurt, but it works fine), because of the competition and constant need for improvement in the bottom carriers (S & T right now). However, I can't help but wonder if S & T merged, if that might not make the market more competitive and crazy because the resulting company would have the brains and rich spectrum portfolio in Sprint, with the aggressive and innovative management @T in Legere and his network rollout team.

 

Really just something to think about, as I see no reason Sprint HAS to be bought out any time soon. ¡Viva Amarillo!

One quick correction!

 

For continuity's sake, I think that when we refer to T-Mobile, we should use TMUS which is their NASDAQ stock symbol. Just like S is Sprint's NYSE stock symbol. T is typically saved for AT&T.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[gusherb]

One quick correction!

 

For continuity's sake, I think that when we refer to T-Mobile, we should use TMUS which is their NASDAQ stock symbol. Just like S is Sprint's NYSE stock symbol. T is typically saved for AT&T.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Whenever I see TMUS I hear it as "T-Moose" in my head...

[Paynefanbro]

Whenever I see TMUS I hear it as "T-Moose" in my head...

Same thing here! ????

But I know it to be T-Mobile. When I read T, I instantly think AT&T.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[greenbastard]

I've been just lurking for the last several days and it's fascinating to see everyone's thoughts and predictions.

 

I personally like the 4-carrier system (1 or 2 more wouldn't hurt, but it works fine), because of the competition and constant need for improvement in the bottom carriers (S & T right now). However, I can't help but wonder if S & T merged, if that might not make the market more competitive and crazy because the resulting company would have the brains and rich spectrum portfolio in Sprint, with the aggressive and innovative management @T in Legere and his network rollout team.

 

Really just something to think about, as I see no reason Sprint HAS to be bought out any time soon. ¡Viva Amarillo!

I absolutely hate the idea of reducing national carrier selection. A Sprint/T-Mobile merger is probably not the best thing for consumers in the long run, but unfortunately I have this feeling Sprint is headed for the 3 carrier path one way or another.

 

While the 2.5 GHz band can definitely work for Sprint, it will involve a massive amount of tower and small cell additions to urban areas. It sounds easy on paper, but in the long run Sprint will add massive amounts of operating expenses just to adequately cover 2-3 city blocks with Band 41. Think of the costs of electricity, backhaul, and rent that Sprint will take on just to fill B41 gaps. It's bad enough they have massive amounts of debt...Last thing Sprint needs is to grow their operating expenses.

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion (an unpopular one on this board) that Sprint should go after a 10x10 block of 600 MHz spectrum. While support won't be ready for this band anytime soon, Sprint can at least have a chance to future-proof indoor performance speeds and reliability. I know many on this board don't like the idea, but 2.5 Ghz is just not getting the job done in its current setup.

[nexgencpu]

Son comments from his latest not so great quarterly..

 

 

SoftBank said Sprint recently has shown signs of a turnaround. Chief Executive Masayoshi Son reiterated at a news conference at a Tokyo hotel his promise that the bad news at Sprint was about to end and a revival would soon begin.

 

He pointed to the success he has had with the mobile business in Japan, which was dismal in the beginning but now boasts an excellent reputation for cell-phone connectivity. He said he would do the same at Sprint.

 

"On my pride, I promise a V-shaped recovery," he said.

 

Link to article...

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/softbanks-annual-profit-drops-27-pct-sprint-woes-39000836

[S4GRU]

Whenever I see TMUS I hear it as "T-Moose" in my head...

Marty Moose! Marty Moose! Uhhh, yup! That's me!!!

 

Using Tapatalk on Note 8.0

[RedSpark]

"On my pride, I promise a V-shaped recovery," he said.

 

Not only has Son put his money where his mouth is (in buying additional shares in Sprint after purchasing his majority stake, approaching the 85% limit at which he would be obligated to buy the rest of the company's shares per the merger conditions), he's put his personal pride on the line, which is a really big deal. He's been a good friend to Sprint these past years, giving Sprint access to SoftBank's large scale engineering/financial resources and talent, while at the same time walking the tightrope in his domestic market. I believe him.

 

The Fiscal Year 2015 Earnings Presentation and Webcast are worth a read/watch.

[dnicekid]

Sprint should ask the gov for a bailout

[RedSpark]

Sprint should ask the gov for a bailout

 

No it shouldn't, and it doesn't need one.

[dnicekid]

No it shouldn't, and it doesn't need one.

Of course they do. Get the money to payoff debt at cheap interest rates as well as money for a quick rapid deployment. Especially since they weren't allowed to merge with Tmo when they had the finances.

Investors will feel better as its backed by gov.

Sprint will bounce back like the automakers.

 

Yes it sounds crazy and almost impossible but it would probably help that contract along with small cell on government property.

Also, the gov wants 4 players and this market is slim pickings

So help sprint out!

 

I bet they wouldn't need it too long just like the auto industry

[RedSpark]

Of course they do. Get the money to payoff debt at cheap interest rates as well as money for a quick rapid deployment. Especially since they weren't allowed to merge with Tmo when they had the finances.

Investors will feel better as its backed by gov.

Sprint will bounce back like the automakers.

 

Yes it sounds crazy and almost impossible but it would probably help that contract along with small cell on government property.

Also, the gov wants 4 players and this market is slim pickings

So help sprint out!

 

I bet they wouldn't need it too long just like the auto industry

 

You know when you say "money" from the government, you're actually talking about using joe and jane taxpayer's money right?

 

The last thing Sprint needs is to owe money or favors back to Uncle Sam.

[dnicekid]

You know when you say "money" from the government, you're actually talking about using joe and jane taxpayer's money right?

 

The last thing Sprint needs is to owe money or favors back to Uncle Sam.

 

 

That's ok use the Print your own money method as suggested by someone... Jk

 

 

Didn't vzw get some spectrum or something from special treatment from the gov?

 

If sprint pays it back we shouldn't worry and if they don't the gov will make much more in wireless auctions.

[payturr]

Didn't vzw get some spectrum or something from special treatment from the gov?

Sprint got spectrum from the government too - the spectrum that composes everyone's band 25 signal, as part of the Nextel deal. If VZW got spectrum, it was either through auction or a deal.

[NYC126]

Sprint got spectrum from the government too - the spectrum that composes everyone's band 25 signal, as part of the Nextel deal. If VZW got spectrum, it was either through auction or a deal.

Verizon got the 850mhz cellular band as free gift from daddy government decades ago.

[Rawvega]

Sprint got spectrum from the government too - the spectrum that composes everyone's band 25 signal, as part of the Nextel deal. If VZW got spectrum, it was either through auction or a deal.

 

Sprint received the PCS G block as compensation for re-banding, a process that has cost Sprint billions of dollars and at times a lot of headaches. I don't believe that is really comparable to how V and T got their cellular spectrum back in the 80s.