AWD vs FWD

[centermedic]

The new cherokee's are nice but the one thing I hate about it is the gas mileage is horrible.  Now of course there are different trim levels but the one I rented last summer was the high end model with every feature you can get and while I loved it, the gas mileage was horrible(both highway and city driving), but it does have a huge gas tank though.

I think you are getting the Grand Cherokee and the Cherokee confused. The new Cherokee gets 31 mpg on the highway and is a smaller vehicle than the Grand Cherokee. http://www.jeep.com/en/2014/cherokee/#model=limited&color=deep-cherry-red

[themuffinman]

I think you are getting the Grand Cherokee and the Cherokee confused. The new Cherokee gets 31 mpg on the highway and is a smaller vehicle than the Grand Cherokee. http://www.jeep.com/en/2014/cherokee/#model=limited&color=deep-cherry-red

My bad, you are right.  It was the grand cherokee.

[burnout8488]

Probably can't go wrong with a Forester, Pilot, or Highlander. Our 2010 HL is still perfect after 60K. Not a single thing has failed prematurely. The brake pads lasted 50K, all 4 rotors were fine. I expect them to last to 100K. Installed new pads from the dealership for $40 per axle and it brakes smooth and quietly, even at high speed. Really impressed with the factory rotor quality, no warping whatsoever and very light wear.

 

It seems like this is going to be an extremely cheap vehicle to own. Especially because we got a base FWD with the 17" wheels, not 19" which causes the tire price to skyrocket.

 

It does have chunky tires even on the FWD, and for the most part it is decent, but it has so much power that it spins the inside wheel every time I accelerate and try to turn at the same time. Even when driving slowly... The AWD on these Highlanders is much like Subaru's, from what I hear. Full time, no clutch packs to engage or wear down. More durable than a part-time AWD system that only kicks in once the front wheels slip. I believe Honda uses that type of system in the Pilot, but don't quote me on that.

 

Oh, and the 3.5L 2GRFE V6 is absolutely amazing. Toyota uses it in everything, and I can see why. (Same goes for Honda's J35 V6, they're perfect engines)

[richy]

Thanks again for all the comments, especially re AWD vs FWD I think the awd will just come down to whats on the lots and what I can negotiate. The turbo forester seems really rare here (and it requires premium which affects the cost per mile), I called and no tester and a wait list for it, makes the lot of fwd highlanders over the road look attractive. I'm just going to grab a maui cruiser from someone leaving the island and bide my time until the right deal comes along. Plus I get to keep the bike for the crazy weather and its reliability. 

 

The rumor for the pilot is it is getting an inch or two narrower and will get the mdx engine with a cvt for fwd which should make it fairly decent fuel wise, possibly best in class. The cx9 is also alledgedly getting redesigned this year although I have no idea what engine it will get, possibly they will buy in the toyota v6 as they have said no v6 skyactiv engine (maybe a 4 pot turbo or a large diesel?). It won't be fun filling it if things kick off with russia and gas goes up a few bucks a gallon. 

[Epic4G25]

Thanks again for all the comments, especially re AWD vs FWD I think the awd will just come down to whats on the lots and what I can negotiate. The turbo forester seems really rare here (and it requires premium which affects the cost per mile), I called and no tester and a wait list for it, makes the lot of fwd highlanders over the road look attractive. I'm just going to grab a maui cruiser from someone leaving the island and bide my time until the right deal comes along. Plus I get to keep the bike for the crazy weather and its reliability. 

 

The rumor for the pilot is it is getting an inch or two narrower and will get the mdx engine with a cvt for fwd which should make it fairly decent fuel wise, possibly best in class. The cx9 is also alledgedly getting redesigned this year although I have no idea what engine it will get, possibly they will buy in the toyota v6 as they have said no v6 skyactiv engine (maybe a 4 pot turbo or a large diesel?). It won't be fun filling it if things kick off with russia and gas goes up a few bucks a gallon. 

Just a tip on the Forester from the son of a mechanic. While the Forester and other turbo vehicles like it (my Saab included) say that 90-93 octane fuel should be used, it's not required. Saab started with an EMS (engine management system) called Saab Trionic, to retard timing and modify other engine parameters so it can run on lower grade fuel without damage or detriment, other manufacturers soon followed. The only thing you'll lose is some engine performance. So the easiest thing to do with a Forester would be, daily drive and when gas is high use 87 octane, when you're going for a fun weekend drive, or prices are reasonable use 90-93. So, don't discount Forester just because of the gas, if you're looking for fun, or especially safety, both safety in driving dynamics and structure, it won't be beat. Much less by a Honda, Toyota, or Mazda. Either way good luck!  

[richy]

Just a tip on the Forester from the son of a mechanic. While the Forester and other turbo vehicles like it (my Saab included) say that 90-93 octane fuel should be used, it's not required. Saab started with an EMS (engine management system) called Saab Trionic, to retard timing and modify other engine parameters so it can run on lower grade fuel without damage or detriment, other manufacturers soon followed. The only thing you'll lose is some engine performance. So the easiest thing to do with a Forester would be, daily drive and when gas is high use 87 octane, when you're going for a fun weekend drive, or prices are reasonable use 90-93. So, don't discount Forester just because of the gas, if you're looking for fun, or especially safety, both safety in driving dynamics and structure, it won't be beat. Much less by a Honda, Toyota, or Mazda. Either way good luck!

Thanks, yes it loses about 35bhp in order to stop the knocking, its only really a factor in the running cost rather than anything else. The real world MPG \ cost per mile of the turbo turns out to be fairly close to the highlander which was shocking given the extra bulk of the HL, but I also have to take into account the fact that the scooby turbo owners may be ragging it senseless for giggles which would drastically affect fuel economy. 

[nexgencpu]

Forester all the way, one of my good buds has had one since 05 and has done about a billion miles (reads 180,000, but I'm sure its gone around the odometer a few times) Subaru are just rock solid!! 

 

One thing you do have to take into account is loss of power not only through lower octane fuel, but also at elevated levels, the thinner the air the less efficient that turbo motor can be. Also, Turbos tend to choke and cease easier in high temperatures. (I have a MKV VW GLI and its awesome here in NYC during low temps)

 

I just wish they would spend the same amount of effort on their styling, it always takes one generation for the design to grow on you, and every new generation just gets fuglier and fuglier.

 

Granted, the forester is not quite as ugly as the rest of Subaru's line up.

[irev210]

I am surprised nobody on here has recommended the Mazda CX-5 AWD.

 

There are two AWD vehicles I would recommend - the Mazda CX-5 AWD (build date nov '13 or newer) or the Subaru Forrester (as others have suggested).

 

I would test drive both and pick the one you like more.

 

The Mazda CX-5 is an often overlooked choice and personally, my top pick.

 

Both the Mazda CX-5 and the Subaru Forrester are top safety picks (you mentioned drunks), get great mileage, seem to meet your size requirement, have great AWD systems, and are both EXTREMELY reliable.

 

The Mazda CX-5 is one awesome car.

[S4GRU]

I've had the CX5, CX7 and CX9 as rental cars. They were great. If you are taller than I am (6'-1"), knee room could be a problem though on longer trips. I drove a CX9 from South Dakota to New Mexico last Fall. Great drive.

 

Although I'm not a fan of Mazda's combined HVAC/Stereo cluster display. It's probably solved with a new navigation system, though.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

[WillM]

Edit: They just got a brand new Forester about 2 months ago also. That thing is the most comfortable SUV I've been in(for the back row of seats), it also has a nice amount of carrying room in the back. They've been averaging 36 mixed highway and city miles in it.

 

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I think your friend is bad at math. There is no way a Forester (US version) is getting 36MPG in mixed driving. Not happening. They are better than the older ones which were total pigs but not that good. 

 

Now if Subaru would allow me to have one with a turbo diesel like they sell everywhere else in the world I'd be all over that.

[swintec]

Now if Subaru would allow me to have one with a turbo diesel like they sell everywhere else in the world I'd be all over that.

 

 

Holy crap this.   Granted i want a new mid size pickup but all the companies keep dragging their feet on releasing diesel variants here in the states.  I am sure it has to do with BS regulation but it annoys me when they are available all around the world except here.  I seem to see every year that next year the car companies have a diesel version coming.  From what I have read, this next model year may be THE year for me with nissan and GM releasing them.

[kojitsari]

I think your friend is bad at math. There is no way a Forester (US version) is getting 36MPG in mixed driving. Not happening. They are better than the older ones which were total pigs but not that good.

They advertise 32mpg mixed, he tweaks things in his cars to boost the mpg too. He gets 36 mixed, granted its mainly highway but its still mixed mileage. He's a very non aggressive driver too; as odd as it sounds it makes a 3-4mpg difference when he drives versus his wife(she likes to stomp the accelerator at lights and brake really sudden).

 

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[WillM]

Holy crap this.   Granted i want a new mid size pickup but all the companies keep dragging their feet on releasing diesel variants here in the states.  I am sure it has to do with BS regulation but it annoys me when they are available all around the world except here.  I seem to see every year that next year the car companies have a diesel version coming.  From what I have read, this next model year may be THE year for me with nissan and GM releasing them.

 

Yeah. I don't get my hopes up too much when I hear that "this could be the year" but we'll see.   

 

Ram did release a V6 diesel in the 1500 this year. They sold out their initial run in 3 days so obviously there is some demand. 

[sbolen]

I have a brand new 2014 Subaru Forester. AWD & 32MPG highway (sometimes more, sometimes less depending on how much of a lead food I have that day).

 

City driving is fun - it's a pretty nimble beast.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

I have several AWD cars and am a big advocate for them. My fun car is an 800hp Mitsubishi Evolution VIII. My daily whip is a 2014 Acura TL SH-AWD.

 

I don't recommend the Evolution to anybody looking for a civilized AWD car, but it's been perfectly reliable, despite having so much horsepower.

 

The Acura TL SH-AWD (Super Handling All Wheel Drive) is a very capable car, while being much more civilized. The Honda/Acura J37 V6 is butter smooth and pulls very hard all the way through the RPM range. The torque vectoring of the Acura SH-AWD system is really fun and is what makes this system the best on the market. Will it last? Who knows. Lol. Acura generally has very good dependability and the SH-AWD TLs seem to follow this trend. If it's in your price range, it's a very fun car and very underrated.

 

The only issue with the SH-AWD TL is gas mileage. I can only get about 27-29mpg on the highway. The car only has about 7,000 miles on it, so it's barely broken in and the gas mileage has gotten slightly better since the first oil change.

[richy]

I am surprised nobody on here has recommended the Mazda CX-5 AWD.

 

There are two AWD vehicles I would recommend - the Mazda CX-5 AWD (build date nov '13 or newer) or the Subaru Forrester (as others have suggested).

 

I would test drive both and pick the one you like more.

 

The Mazda CX-5 is an often overlooked choice and personally, my top pick.

 

Both the Mazda CX-5 and the Subaru Forrester are top safety picks (you mentioned drunks), get great mileage, seem to meet your size requirement, have great AWD systems, and are both EXTREMELY reliable.

 

The Mazda CX-5 is one awesome car.

 

 

I've had the CX5, CX7 and CX9 as rental cars. They were great. If you are taller than I am (6'-1"), knee room could be a problem though on longer trips. I drove a CX9 from South Dakota to New Mexico last Fall. Great drive.

 

Although I'm not a fan of Mazda's combined HVAC/Stereo cluster display. It's probably solved with a new navigation system, though.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

Not sure why I didnt mention them. I did have a drive, I love the looks. The cx5 could do with just a smidge more power, another engine option would be nice, a diesel would be awesome. I'll see how they are doing in a year with reliability as it is a new model and they are still finding their feet after the ford divorce. The new cx9 will be interesting, I'm hoping they add the toyota v6 to it along with a light & safe chassis and it should be a great contender. The cx5 is faster than the base forester and a chunk faster than the crv which is glacial (only reason I'm not really considering the crv, it was like swimming through concrete). Sadly at 6'3 (210 lbs so I guess a little over average build) the cx was verging on cramped but I didnt mess too much with the seat position. 

 

I think your friend is bad at math. There is no way a Forester (US version) is getting 36MPG in mixed driving. Not happening. They are better than the older ones which were total pigs but not that good.

They advertise 32mpg mixed, he tweaks things in his cars to boost the mpg too. He gets 36 mixed, granted its mainly highway but its still mixed mileage. He's a very non aggressive driver too; as odd as it sounds it makes a 3-4mpg difference when he drives versus his wife(she likes to stomp the accelerator at lights and brake really sudden).

 

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They advertise 32mpg highway and 27 combined. It is possible to beat the epa figures assuming everything is perfect but mixed driving and beating the highway figures? Not impossible but if you check on places like fuelly he is 4mpg better than anyone has reported for any kind of driving. I can't match the epa figures on my bike (I assume because they were set using a 90lb rider) but on a fun day I can half them. The only vehicle we have ever had that beat the epa figures was a small diesel back in the UK which pretty much returned the same economy no matter what speed or conditions. I miss 65mpg Please note that is a real gallon not the half fat gallon used stateside. Just as an aside, does anyone know why there are so many gallons? (imperial, wet, dry, us??)

 

Just fud out the melanoma roof in the subaru eats up 3ft of cargo space  

[kojitsari]

I have several AWD cars and am a big advocate for them. My fun car is an 800hp Mitsubishi Evolution VIII. My daily whip is a 2014 Acura TL SH-AWD. I don't recommend the Evolution to anybody looking for a civilized AWD car, but it's been perfectly reliable, despite having so much horsepower. The Acura TL SH-AWD (Super Handling All Wheel Drive) is a very capable car, while being much more civilized. The Honda/Acura J37 V6 is butter smooth and pulls very hard all the way through the RPM range. The torque vectoring of the Acura SH-AWD system is really fun and is what makes this system the best on the market. Will it last? Who knows. Lol. Acura generally has very good dependability and the SH-AWD TLs seem to follow this trend. If it's in your price range, it's a very fun car and very underrated.The only issue with the SH-AWD TL is gas mileage. I can only get about 27-29mpg on the highway. The car only has about 7,000 miles on it, so it's barely broken in and the gas mileage has gotten slightly better since the first oil change.

I'm picking up an EVO IX for my next car. I have an acquaintance who's had his since 06 and he's only put 12k on it stock(its his every once in awhile car). I take it your evo is far from stock . How do you like it?

 

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[kojitsari]

Not sure why I didnt mention them. I did have a drive, I love the looks. The cx5 could do with just a smidge more power, another engine option would be nice, a diesel would be awesome. I'll see how they are doing in a year with reliability as it is a new model and they are still finding their feet after the ford divorce. The new cx9 will be interesting, I'm hoping they add the toyota v6 to it along with a light & safe chassis and it should be a great contender. The cx5 is faster than the base forester and a chunk faster than the crv which is glacial (only reason I'm not really considering the crv, it was like swimming through concrete). Sadly at 6'3 (210 lbs so I guess a little over average build) the cx was verging on cramped but I didnt mess too much with the seat position.

 

They advertise 32mpg highway and 27 combined. It is possible to beat the epa figures assuming everything is perfect but mixed driving and beating the highway figures? Not impossible but if you check on places like fuelly he is 4mpg better than anyone has reported for any kind of driving. I can't match the epa figures on my bike (I assume because they were set using a 90lb rider) but on a fun day I can half them. The only vehicle we have ever had that beat the epa figures was a small diesel back in the UK which pretty much returned the same economy no matter what speed or conditions. I miss 65mpg Please note that is a real gallon not the half fat gallon used stateside. Just as an aside, does anyone know why there are so many gallons? (imperial, wet, dry, us??)

 

Just fud out the melanoma roof in the subaru eats up 3ft of cargo space

I credit his bonus gas mileage to the modifications he's put into it. He tweaks his cars like most of the people who frequent S4GRU tweak their phones.

To your gallon question, well its the US. We do things how we want to, regardless of how stupid they are or if there's a simpler way.

 

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[CaryTheLabelGuy]

I'm picking up an EVO IX for my next car. I have an acquaintance who's had his since 06 and he's only put 12k on it stock(its his every once in awhile car). I take it your evo is far from stock . How do you like it?

 

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I love my Evo. I bought it brand new in 2006 (it's a 2005 Evo 8.5) and had to drive to Arizona to get it. It has 75k hard miles (it's been babied, but driven like it has 800hp) on it and it's never had a single issue. Not a single one. And to answer your question, it's far from stock. The car has been re-painted a custom color, but the interior is still practically brand-new and the drivetrain is impeccable.

[richy]

I credit his bonus gas mileage to the modifications he's put into it. He tweaks his cars like most of the people who frequent S4GRU tweak their phones.

To your gallon question, well its the US. We do things how we want to, regardless of how stupid they are or if there's a simpler way.

 

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Any ideas about what mods he has done? K&N air filter etc? It should already be running 0w20 which is basically baby oil. I'm thinking I will go and pester the dealers again next time we have a stormy day, see if they will let me do a 2 day test drive. Silly question but do dealers let you do extended test drives like that here? I know back home as long as you are a serious buyer they let you do extended tests. Even the Kawasaki dealership back home let me do 24 hour tests but they're a big risk for the dealership and it adds serious miles to their stock.

[richy]

I love my Evo. I bought it brand new in 2006 (it's a 2005 Evo 8.5) and had to drive to Arizona to get it. It has 75k hard miles (it's been babied, but driven like it has 800hp) on it and it's never had a single issue. Not a single one. And to answer your question, it's far from stock. The car has been re-painted a custom color, but the interior is still practically brand-new and the drivetrain is impeccable.

I would love an evo Sadly I know how that story would end (becoming a structurally important member of a tree, much the same as why there isn't a zx14 sat in my parking stall right now. 

 

Whats the insurance like on that stateside? I know in the UK anything like that is crazy money. Do they penalize you as hard here?

[kojitsari]

I would love an evo Sadly I know how that story would end (becoming a structurally important member of a tree, much the same as why there isn't a zx14 sat in my parking stall right now.

 

Whats the insurance like on that stateside? I know in the UK anything like that is crazy money. Do they penalize you as hard here?

He's done all the standard things you can think of and more. I don't think I could give you a descriptive list without it being a major eyesore. I'll try to get him to write it up online(if he ever gets free time). I know for me being a 20 year old male with a perfect driving record(not even ever being stopped by a cop, or looked at funny ) it cost the same for me to get an EVO/STI as it would for me to get an SUV or a truck. I'm definitely a car type of guy (I love the way they hug turns I could never deal with a truck), so for me its a no brainer.

 

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[richy]

Thats pretty impressive insurance wise. My bike insurance is insanely low because I'm mid 30's and no accidents \ tickets etc but in Europe I would still pay a heft premium for supersports bike (a 2 wheeled evo in effect:) ). Only ever had one whoopsie and it was at just under 10mph and no one else was involved and no need for insurance. 

I totally understand re the prefer cars, frankly I would rather chew all my own skin off than trade in 2 wheels for 4, its like sex with rubber Safer but none of the feeling. Sadly she who must be obeyed nixed the sidecar idea. I'm toying with keeping a bike for fun, very little seems to beat getting your elbow down for stress relief and on a small bike you can have hideous fun without going too fast. I think I need to go discuss sidecars again. 

[kojitsari]

Thats pretty impressive insurance wise. My bike insurance is insanely low because I'm mid 30's and no accidents \ tickets etc but in Europe I would still pay a heft premium for supersports bike (a 2 wheeled evo in effect:) ). Only ever had one whoopsie and it was at just under 10mph and no one else was involved and no need for insurance.

I totally understand re the prefer cars, frankly I would rather chew all my own skin off than trade in 2 wheels for 4, its like sex with rubber Safer but none of the feeling. Sadly she who must be obeyed nixed the sidecar idea. I'm toying with keeping a bike for fun, very little seems to beat getting your elbow down for stress relief and on a small bike you can have hideous fun without going too fast. I think I need to go discuss sidecars again.

I live in a good state for insurance, but its still screwy that mine is 4 times more than my sisters who's a few years older and has had 3 accidents... Stupid stereotypes

I've never experience bikes, but I want to try one sometime(they seem like fun to me, as an extra vehicle). I've consistently gotten good student discounts also, so that helps.

 

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[richy]

I live in a good state for insurance, but its still screwy that mine is 4 times more than my sisters who's a few years older and has had 3 accidents... Stupid stereotypes

I've never experience bikes, but I want to try one sometime(they seem like fun to me, as an extra vehicle). I've consistently gotten good student discounts also, so that helps.

 

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Yeah the whole age and sex thing for insurance probably works when you have 20 million customers, but it doesn't work for all the people who don't fall into the stereotypes.

 

Give a bike a shot sometime, even a $4k new 250cc sports bike can be a howl. Just be prepared to pay $2k for a decent helmet and leathers (plus gloves and boots) and take all the learning you can, spending less isn't worth it. DOT certified helmets that aren't snell or ec rated should be ignored. Also get yourself online and find a decent truck horn and fit that The only danger is bikes tend to make you go all red eyed millennium falcon at hyperspace crazy.