AT&T LTE and Network Discussion

[mdob07]

On 2/25/2022 at 9:47 AM, mdob07 said:

HSPA still working here in Louisville KY also. 

Still working here a week after the shutdown date. Hopefully they shut it down soon, I'd much rather have the extra bandwidth on N5. 

[Destroyallcubes]

My 3G shut off middle of the day last week. Still no 10mhz N5. They just havent refarmed the 3G spectrum. Figured they would have shut off the 3G network, and very quickly turned on that spectrum for use with 5G. In areas where B2 was used as 3G, it should have been transitioned quickly to 5G, but hasnt here at least. 

 

Im wondering if they will be waiting in some areas until tower climbs happen later this year with the N77 additions. 

[Destroyallcubes]

So am I missing something with why All N77 capable phones arent able to use the new "Andromeda" spectrum? As far As what I could tell is the new ATT spectrum should be available to use as N77, but ATT seems to ensue that N77 phones wont work with it. Is there a specific band thats used for it?

[clbowens]

1 hour ago, Destroyallcubes said:

So am I missing something with why All N77 capable phones arent able to use the new "Andromeda" spectrum? As far As what I could tell is the new ATT spectrum should be available to use as N77, but ATT seems to ensue that N77 phones wont work with it. Is there a specific band thats used for it?

They don't want to pay for going back and getting those devices "approved" for N77 and software updates.

[dkyeager]

4 hours ago, Destroyallcubes said:

So am I missing something with why All N77 capable phones arent able to use the new "Andromeda" spectrum? As far As what I could tell is the new ATT spectrum should be available to use as N77, but ATT seems to ensue that N77 phones wont work with it. Is there a specific band thats used for it?

 

3 hours ago, clbowens said:

They don't want to pay for going back and getting those devices "approved" for N77 and software updates.

There is also n78. Even the Samsung Galaxy A32 5g has both.

[Destroyallcubes]

7 hours ago, clbowens said:

They don't want to pay for going back and getting those devices "approved" for N77 and software updates.

Thats the thing, even the A32 5Gaready has it enabled, even the S21/Z 3 series has it enabled, yet they make it seem like its only the S22 and on that will support it. Youd think theyd want more devices connecting to N77 to offload LTE some

[iansltx]

Apparently 3.45 requires NR Release 16, which is only available on X65 modems. So the only phones that can take advantage are the S22 series right now. Plus whatever comes out with the 8G1 otherwise. Which annoys me because I'm not hearing great things about the S22, so I don't particularly want to upgrade, but I also want to take advantage of that spectrum.

Might have to buy two new phones this year as a result: one for 3.45, one for n70 😐

[dkyeager]

29 minutes ago, iansltx said:

Apparently 3.45 requires NR Release 16, which is only available on X65 modems.

What specific aspects of Release 16 does it require?  Surprised they just didn't go the n77 super band, n78.

[clbowens]

4 hours ago, iansltx said:

Apparently 3.45 requires NR Release 16, which is only available on X65 modems. So the only phones that can take advantage are the S22 series right now. Plus whatever comes out with the 8G1 otherwise. Which annoys me because I'm not hearing great things about the S22, so I don't particularly want to upgrade, but I also want to take advantage of that spectrum.

Might have to buy two new phones this year as a result: one for 3.45, one for n70 😐

3.45 what?

[dkyeager]

22 hours ago, clbowens said:

3.45 what?

GHz

[iansltx]

On 3/12/2022 at 4:53 PM, dkyeager said:

What specific aspects of Release 16 does it require?  Surprised they just didn't go the n77 super band, n78.

n77 is the superset, not n78.

Source on Rel 16, but I don't know anything further: 

 

[mdob07]

HSPA is still live here in KY and Nashville, TN. I'm surprised they're waiting this long to shut it off with how much communication they were sending my aunt who had some phones that needed to be updated. I'm sure there's some people that took the wait and see approach to see if their phone really would stop working on Feb 22nd that will now be caught off guard down the road when they finally do shut it down. My uncle was going to go that route but he ended up getting a newer Samsung, (A32 5G I think?) AT&T had sent him a Fusion Z as a free replacement and it was a pile of crap, which is why he was originally going to wait it out and see if his old phone still worked on the 23rd. We ended up using the Fusion Z to replace my grandma's cracked S7 which also supposedly wouldn't work once HSPA was shut off. The phone is so slow and clunky that even she is asking to get a better phone now lol. And yes they are going to go get her the same phone my uncle got and put the Fusion Z out of its misery.    

Also, I had an interesting experience down in Nashville Friday night. Out on Broadway AT&T and Verizon have small cells everywhere but no one in my group could get data to work on any carrier. T-Mobile had 100+ on download thanks to N41 @ 100MHz but kept failing on upload which is why nothing worked. My AT&T phone had great signal (we were actually standing again a pole with a SC on it) but again nothing would load and speed tests wouldn't even start. Not sure if whoever provides backhaul for all the small cells had a hiccup or what. Seemed to affect both Verizon and AT&T small cells though not just one carrier. SCP did confirm I was connected to multiple small cells during the experience. We were trying to find a place they wanted to go to off the strip and trying to figure out if we could walk or needed to Uber. Ended up walking just over a mile in sleet and snow but we made it, by the time we got far enough to get working data were were halfway there so we figured what the heck and walked the rest of the way there. 

[dkyeager]

6 hours ago, mdob07 said:

HSPA is still live here in KY and Nashville, TN. I'm surprised they're waiting this long to shut it off with how much communication they were sending my aunt who had some phones that needed to be updated. I'm sure there's some people that took the wait and see approach to see if their phone really would stop working on Feb 22nd that will now be caught off guard down the road when they finally do shut it down. My uncle was going to go that route but he ended up getting a newer Samsung, (A32 5G I think?) AT&T had sent him a Fusion Z as a free replacement and it was a pile of crap, which is why he was originally going to wait it out and see if his old phone still worked on the 23rd. We ended up using the Fusion Z to replace my grandma's cracked S7 which also supposedly wouldn't work once HSPA was shut off. The phone is so slow and clunky that even she is asking to get a better phone now lol. And yes they are going to go get her the same phone my uncle got and put the Fusion Z out of its misery.    

Also, I had an interesting experience down in Nashville Friday night. Out on Broadway AT&T and Verizon have small cells everywhere but no one in my group could get data to work on any carrier. T-Mobile had 100+ on download thanks to N41 @ 100MHz but kept failing on upload which is why nothing worked. My AT&T phone had great signal (we were actually standing again a pole with a SC on it) but again nothing would load and speed tests wouldn't even start. Not sure if whoever provides backhaul for all the small cells had a hiccup or what. Seemed to affect both Verizon and AT&T small cells though not just one carrier. SCP did confirm I was connected to multiple small cells during the experience. We were trying to find a place they wanted to go to off the strip and trying to figure out if we could walk or needed to Uber. Ended up walking just over a mile in sleet and snow but we made it, by the time we got far enough to get working data were were halfway there so we figured what the heck and walked the rest of the way there. 

Still seeing AT&T HPSA+ here as well, although changing the network type to wcdma only gave temporary results. Had to turn off all LTE to fully force it this time.

Interesting that even the 100Mhz of n41 failed to have decent upload. How far were you from its site? Wondering if n71 upload will be able to help just at a distance or will be required for the entire cell range.  n41 upload at 100MHz should be at least 5x what Sprint could offer for band 41 LTE, plus supposedly they can temporarily shorten the download time frame to boost upload but not certain this was ever implemented.

On the small cell performance, I wonder if there are still lingering issues from the van? bombing a while back in downtown Nashville.  Was there any sort of festival occuring?

[dkyeager]

On 3/14/2022 at 12:21 PM, iansltx said:

n77 is the superset, not n78.

Source on Rel 16, but I don't know anything further: 

 

Perhaps in here:https://www.edn.com/3gpp-release-16-what-are-the-key-enhancements-and-new-features/

Found it interesting thecrelease 16 introduces so many new features rather than just bug fixes.

[iansltx]

So this is new: 15x15 dedicated n5 in an area where AT&T has all of 850. Means they have as much low-band NR las T-Mobile does (way less mid-band though, even counting the occasional n2/66). https://twitter.com/iansltx/status/1527426642301403145?t=n2MWeh4psvOy-HMzvLYWBQ&s=19

[red_dog007]

Wonder if AT&T is doing some last minute deals with businesses, as to why HSPA is still online.

Or maybe there are contracts in place that have pushed the "deadline" out in various places.

Shoot, AT&T could be getting sued in local courts and the courts saying AT&T needs to keep it online until things are settled?

[iansltx]

So, between the S22 and probably some AT&T improvements, seems like mmW in downtown Austin is getting a little better. Also means that n5 and LTE just outside mmW coverage is less loaded, so I can get much better speeds (200+/70+) than where there's no mmW for offload.

 

[iansltx]

One more high score. Turns out, using a USB 3 cable rather than the one that came with my PH-1 unlocks full wired tethering speeds well in excess of a gigabit.

Now, T-Mobile could totally do this on n41+n41+n71 3CA if they actually tried, and you wouldn't have to pick one specific street corner downtown to get it, but that's neither here nor there for this post.

AT&T also has n66 DSS on downtown, so there's technically 30x30 of sub-6 live where I'm sitting on top of 800 MHz of 38 GHz.

As a final note, and I do note this in the Twitter thread, Boost Mobile pretty obviously does *not* speed-cap its AT&T provisioned SIMs, tethered or on-phone. So they're excellent network test SIMs if you're judicious about how many mmW speed tests you do...and I'm not entirely sure why you'd get AT&T postpaid when this is an option unless your data usage is >35GB.

 

 

[red_dog007]

Kinda makes me wonder how hard mmWave is going to be pushed still.  AT&T has 160x160MHz of 3.45/3.7GHz. Makes that seem like mmWave might still see very limited deployment.  

What is AT&T doing with WCS these days? Still limited to 5x5? IIRC (could be completely wrong here) filters they used to make them 10x10 still had interference on Sirius, so had to go 5x5 unless AT&T broadcast Sirius off the towers. 

[iansltx]

2 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

Kinda makes me wonder how hard mmWave is going to be pushed still.  AT&T has 160x160MHz of 3.45/3.7GHz. Makes that seem like mmWave might still see very limited deployment.  

What is AT&T doing with WCS these days? Still limited to 5x5? IIRC (could be completely wrong here) filters they used to make them 10x10 still had interference on Sirius, so had to go 5x5 unless AT&T broadcast Sirius off the towers. 

AT&T only has 40 MHz deployed right now; 80 will require the S22 or better (3.45) and combo radios, and 120 has to wait until December 2023. They won't get 160...they have 40 MHz each of 3.7/3.8/3.45.

Given timing, mmW will still be useful for AT&T, particularly given that iPhones can't use 3.45, and there are a handful of phones that can do mmW but not C-Band.

AT&T does have 10x10 of WCS deployed in some areas; I've seen it even on some sites in the Austin area. It's just hit or miss. They use it for FWA too I believe, at 256QAM down 64QAM up. Haven't seen them deploy NR on it...yet. they don't seem to want to throw NR on anything less than 15x15 once they have the icon.

[iansltx]

Posting this from AT&T n5 pretty close to the middle of nowhere; T-Mobile roams on West Central Wireless H+ (B12 doesn't make it here), though occasionally I can get Sprint B26. VZW is B13 only. AT&T has 10x10 n5 (H+ is gone). Plus 10x10 each of B66, B66, B2, B14, B30, plus 5x5 B12 and I think B2. Some sites around here only have 5x5 B30, and those sites also have neither NR nor B14. Saw in excess of 100 Mbps down at times on 50x50 5CA, including n5.

T-Mobile roams on AT&T out here, albeit at like 64 kbps. Boost on T-Mobile roams on West Central H+ for voice and SMS only. Maybe WCW B12 too but it doesn't reach to where I've been for the past 24 hours.

 

 

[mdob07]

I finally found n66 in the wild. I'm on vacation down in the Gatlinburg TN area this week and noticed it in Knoxville and in Sevierville TN where I'm at now. Looks like they flipped the AWS1 5x5 carrier that centered at 1732.5/2132.5. 

[mdob07]

Looks like AT&T finally killed 3G around here.

[red_dog007]

I just flipped over to 3G and my phone isn't picking up a signal.  That means all of 850MHz is only 5G now?  AT&T doing DSS on that or no?

[mdob07]

2 minutes ago, red_dog007 said:

I just flipped over to 3G and my phone isn't picking up a signal.  That means all of 850MHz is only 5G now?  AT&T doing DSS on that or no?

Not sure on DSS since they haven't widened to 10x10 here yet. We'll see how long that takes, hopefully not another 3 months. I hope they enable SA on n5 soon, I get really good signal on n5 in my house but keep dropping to just b12 because the anchor signal is too weak.