AT&T LTE and Network Discussion

[iansltx]

17 hours ago, Destroyallcubes said:

Well no phones run N30 yet, and there is no N46 to my knowledge. 3G is going to be sunset and it'll be completed by what 2022 iirc. Could always just turn that off on sites early. Doubt it though. Most likely will use DSS though

To be clear, I'm betting they'll run n5 dedicated, plus maybe n2/66, as well as additional LTE on 30 and maybe 46.

I seriously doubt they'll drop H+ in these areas until their deadline. Far too many phones can't do VoLTE on AT&T.

[iansltx]

17 hours ago, Destroyallcubes said:

Quick look, looks like it was a 20mhz connection on N2, that's not too bad. Wonder if it's DSS or all n2 being converted from LTE. Also noticed B1w being the Primary carrier with N2, that's interesting. From what I've seen in my locale is B2 is the primary LTE carrier with N5 being the NR band of choice.

B12?

Yeah, it appears as though if you do NSA you have to pick a low-band PCC if you run mid-band NR, or vice versa. Rather curious if they'll use B14 as a PCC anywhere.

As for whether n2 is DSS or not, should be trivial to check, but there's no way AT&T would be willing to remove 20 MHz of LTE capacity in favor of NR at this stage; that's gotta be DSS (and you should be able to verify that by switching back to 4G only mode and checking EARFCNs).

[red_dog007]

On 10/31/2020 at 6:35 PM, iansltx said:

To be clear, I'm betting they'll run n5 dedicated, plus maybe n2/66, as well as additional LTE on 30 and maybe 46.

I seriously doubt they'll drop H+ in these areas until their deadline. Far too many phones can't do VoLTE on AT&T.

TMobile and Verizon will be all VoLTE here soon.  I don't see why AT&T couldn't.  Though they have a very tee tiny list of VoLTE capable devices. Some kind of technical issue because of some piece of hardware/software they opted for years ago? They don't want to put the extra effort into it? Use this as an opportunity to sell phones?

They already have a decent number of markets that lack 850.  It sucks going from a very usable LTE 700 to not being able to place a fall call due to the lack of 850.  I have even noticed that AT&T 700 LTE coverage is better than their 850 HSPA coverage in my area. VoLTE works on on my phone both TMobile and VZW, why the heck not AT&T!

[Yuhfhrh]

10 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

TMobile and Verizon will be all VoLTE here soon.  I don't see why AT&T couldn't.  Though they have a very tee tiny list of VoLTE capable devices. Some kind of technical issue because of some piece of hardware/software they opted for years ago? They don't want to put the extra effort into it? Use this as an opportunity to sell phones?

They already have a decent number of markets that lack 850.  It sucks going from a very usable LTE 700 to not being able to place a fall call due to the lack of 850.  I have even noticed that AT&T 700 LTE coverage is better than their 850 HSPA coverage in my area. VoLTE works on on my phone both TMobile and VZW, why the heck not AT&T!

I think it's just a control issue on AT&T's end as far as their VoLTE whitelist is concerned. This may just be a way to only allow the select devices they decide to work on the network.

Fun fact- you can take an AT&T sim out of a device that has VoLTE provisioning and move it to an "incompatible" device and VoLTE will work on that "incompatible" device for several minutes before AT&T's system updates with the new IMEI and kicks the phone off.

[red_dog007]

On 11/2/2020 at 2:54 PM, Yuhfhrh said:

Fun fact- you can take an AT&T sim out of a device that has VoLTE provisioning and move it to an "incompatible" device and VoLTE will work on that "incompatible" device for several minutes before AT&T's system updates with the new IMEI and kicks the phone off.

When I switched to RedPocket GMSA in December from Sprint using a Verizon Palm Phone, VoLTE was working through February before it was disabled. That was a RP sim card straight into the Palm and activated in the Palm.

[Destroyallcubes]

https://imgur.com/a/M3Tv3vX

 

What all Is going on with this site? One sector has 5 panels, the other 2 are 4, with 2 larger panels. (Mid rack) This is just a normal 2 B66 10x10 carriers with 1 B2 10x10Mhz, B2 5x5Mhz, b12, b14, B30 5x5Mhz, and N5 5Mhz, with 4g on B5.

 

Also With the Android 11 beta, and a few tweaks I was able to see all of these 5G bands available

[ingenium]

On 11/4/2020 at 11:50 AM, red_dog007 said:

When I switched to RedPocket GMSA in December from Sprint using a Verizon Palm Phone, VoLTE was working through February before it was disabled. That was a RP sim card straight into the Palm and activated in the Palm.

On the Pixel 4 at least, the MVNO profile that's loaded for the SIM disables the ability to turn on VoLTE. Same for red Pocket T-Mobile. I used root to set a prop that forces the toggle to always be present in settings and VoLTE works fine on GSMA and GSMT. AT&T is now at least allowing VoLTE on MVNOs on their network. But devices need updated to allow it to be turned on.

[iansltx]

37 minutes ago, ingenium said:

On the Pixel 4 at least, the MVNO profile that's loaded for the SIM disables the ability to turn on VoLTE. Same for red Pocket T-Mobile. I used root to set a prop that forces the toggle to always be present in settings and VoLTE works fine on GSMA and GSMT. AT&T is now at least allowing VoLTE on MVNOs on their network. But devices need updated to allow it to be turned on.

Yeah, for the short period family was on Pure Talk, VoLTE worked on the g fast and S20, but not on the Moto X4 and E4 Plus. All four devices support VoLTE on VZW. 99.99% sure all would support VoLTE on TMo but lack of B71 on the older Motos mean I haven't checked.

[Destroyallcubes]

So very interesting find , at my home The 5G upper layer indicator was turned off on certain LTE bands, but still has NR connected. It was on a Band 30 5 mhz one tower, a Band 30 10mhz chunk on another, and my home tower the Band 2 5Mhz chunk now has no indicator on. I am wondering if they are maybe configuring the the tower for DSS NR band 2

[mdob07]

So it appears the January update on my S20 Ultra has enabled SA 5G for AT&T finally. Before the option wasn't even there. I set my phone to SA only but can't connect yet, but hopefully this is a sign they will enable soon. N5 NSA is all thats live around me currently. This might explain the weirdness some of us have been seeing with the 5G indicator and some other weirdness recently.

[Destroyallcubes]

On 1/25/2021 at 8:29 PM, mdob07 said:

So it appears the January update on my S20 Ultra has enabled SA 5G for AT&T finally. Before the option wasn't even there. I set my phone to SA only but can't connect yet, but hopefully this is a sign they will enable soon. N5 NSA is all thats live around me currently. This might explain the weirdness some of us have been seeing with the 5G indicator and some other weirdness recently.

Yep it was enabled across the board with android 11/One ui 3.0 update. It also enabled N66. I just got the s21 Ultra, and am curious to test if N30 is enabled or if I can enable it

[mdob07]

I'm out in Lexington, KY today and noticed that Verizon has acquired 5x5 B2 from AT&T, they now have 10x10 at EARFCN 1150, used to be 5x5 at 1125 for Verizon and 5x5 at 1175 for AT&T. Not sure if they just sold for cash or swapped other spectrum. As far as I can tell I don't see any other difference in deployed spectrum here for AT&T, so not sure what spectrum they might have received in return. 

Edited to add: Unless they can swap spectrum across different areas. With Verizon buying Bluegrass Cellular maybe they are positioning to trade for the block Bluegrass owns in the middle of AT&Ts 2 B2 carriers south of Louisville. That would keep Lexington at 20x20 and allow the area south of Louisville to go to 20x20 from the current 10x10 + 5x5.

[Destroyallcubes]

17 hours ago, mdob07 said:

I'm out in Lexington, KY today and noticed that Verizon has acquired 5x5 B2 from AT&T, they now have 10x10 at EARFCN 1150, used to be 5x5 at 1125 for Verizon and 5x5 at 1175 for AT&T. Not sure if they just sold for cash or swapped other spectrum. As far as I can tell I don't see any other difference in deployed spectrum here for AT&T, so not sure what spectrum they might have received in return. 

Edited to add: Unless they can swap spectrum across different areas. With Verizon buying Bluegrass Cellular maybe they are positioning to trade for the block Bluegrass owns in the middle of AT&Ts 2 B2 carriers south of Louisville. That would keep Lexington at 20x20 and allow the area south of Louisville to go to 20x20 from the current 10x10 + 5x5.

Yeah pretty sure you can do swaps in different markets. Pretty sure that has happened previously with other spectrum swaps. Honestly wish most areas would just complete swaps with the competition to give continuous 10-20mhz swaths instead of separated chunks(Obviously where applicable) pretty sure it would be a better experience for everyone 

[Paynefanbro]

I think that we're in for another round of spectrum swaps similar to the mid-2010's. The issue previously was that we had 4 nationwide carriers so it was less likely that in PCS, carriers could swap and everyone walks away with contiguous blocks that are equal in size to what they had previously. Now that T-Mobile is part of Sprint, in many markets T-Mobile can now initiate spectrum swaps with AT&T and Verizon because their PCS holdings are much larger than before.

A good example of this is Pitt County, NC where T-Mobile lacked significant amounts of PCS spectrum before the merger with Sprint. Post-merger, T-Mobile can now swap the lower 5MHz PCS-A block and the 10MHz PCS D-block for AT&T's 15MHz PCS-B block. T-Mobile can also swap their 5MHz PCS-F with Verizon's 5MHz PCS-E.

After that swap, AT&T would have a contiguous 20MHz of PCS (A+D), Verizon would have a contiguous 20MHz of PCS (F+C), and T-Mobile would have a contiguous 20MHz of PCS (B+E) + the 5MHz PCS-G block.

[bigsnake49]

On 1/30/2021 at 11:10 AM, Paynefanbro said:

I think that we're in for another round of spectrum swaps similar to the mid-2010's. The issue previously was that we had 4 nationwide carriers so it was less likely that in PCS, carriers could swap and everyone walks away with contiguous blocks that are equal in size to what they had previously. Now that T-Mobile is part of Sprint, in many markets T-Mobile can now initiate spectrum swaps with AT&T and Verizon because their PCS holdings are much larger than before.

A good example of this is Pitt County, NC where T-Mobile lacked significant amounts of PCS spectrum before the merger with Sprint. Post-merger, T-Mobile can now swap the lower 5MHz PCS-A block and the 10MHz PCS D-block for AT&T's 15MHz PCS-B block. T-Mobile can also swap their 5MHz PCS-F with Verizon's 5MHz PCS-E.

After that swap, AT&T would have a contiguous 20MHz of PCS (A+D), Verizon would have a contiguous 20MHz of PCS (F+C), and T-Mobile would have a contiguous 20MHz of PCS (B+E) + the 5MHz PCS-G block.

There is a lot of spectrum swaps that should happen throughout the country to rationalize spectrum on different bands, not just PCS. 

[Paynefanbro]

1 hour ago, bigsnake49 said:

There is a lot of spectrum swaps that should happen throughout the country to rationalize spectrum on different bands, not just PCS. 

I’m well aware however I specifically spoke about PCS as that is where there is the most to be gained right now. That is the only spectrum that Sprint had in common with the other carriers and now it has been consolidated under T-Mobile so there are many more opportunities than before for T-Mobile to do PCS swaps nationwide. 

[mdob07]

1 hour ago, Paynefanbro said:

I’m well aware however I specifically spoke about PCS as that is where there is the most to be gained right now. That is the only spectrum that Sprint had in common with the other carriers and now it has been consolidated under T-Mobile so there are many more opportunities than before for T-Mobile to do PCS swaps nationwide. 

I wonder how willing AT&T and Verizon will be to take G block in PCS? Here thats the only orphaned PCS T-Mobile has. I wish B(N)25 had caught on like B66 had to replace B4. I've not seen other carriers using B25 as priority over B2. AT&T broadcast their primary B2 carrier as B25 here but no CA with it. I only see it when I force my phone to B25 and I'm assuming it's there for other carriers to roam on. Down the road I'd love to see AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile do similar swaps in AWS as well, all 3 are a fragmented mess here. 

[bigsnake49]

1 hour ago, mdob07 said:

I wonder how willing AT&T and Verizon will be to take G block in PCS? Here thats the only orphaned PCS T-Mobile has. I wish B(N)25 had caught on like B66 had to replace B4. I've not seen other carriers using B25 as priority over B2. AT&T broadcast their primary B2 carrier as B25 here but no CA with it. I only see it when I force my phone to B25 and I'm assuming it's there for other carriers to roam on. Down the road I'd love to see AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile do similar swaps in AWS as well, all 3 are a fragmented mess here. 

The best thing to do with respect to PCS-G is to swap spectrum with the other two so you can get the adjacent C block. That's what they tried to do the last couple of rounds of spectrum swaps.

[iansltx]

On 2/17/2021 at 11:07 AM, bigsnake49 said:

The best thing to do with respect to PCS-G is to swap spectrum with the other two so you can get the adjacent C block. That's what they tried to do the last couple of rounds of spectrum swaps.

Yep. Only reason AT&T is doing B25 MFBI is for Sprint roaming as far as I can tell. They do the same thing on B5, which they also broadcast as B26. No need for CA on either because you're looking at ~256 kbps capped speeds for roaming anyway, and reasonable CA combos don't really exist for 25/26 vs. anything else on AT&T.

[iansltx]

So, AT&T got 80 MHz of C-Band on average, with 40 of that showing up in December. Not a horrible showing, given how much VZW spent.

[Destroyallcubes]

5 hours ago, iansltx said:

So, AT&T got 80 MHz of C-Band on average, with 40 of that showing up in December. Not a horrible showing, given how much VZW spent.

My area got the C blocks. No C band for me until 2023 or later. Dallas got 40Mhz roughly of the A block which should be ready for use soon. Curious to see the cell sites with C band equipment

[iansltx]

4 hours ago, Destroyallcubes said:

My area got the C blocks. No C band for me until 2023 or later. Dallas got 40Mhz roughly of the A block which should be ready for use soon. Curious to see the cell sites with C band equipment

So your area is outside the top bunch of markets then?

Re: equipment, should look quite similar to 2.5 M-MIMO gear.

[dkyeager]

I found AT&T's strategy for auction 107 (n77) to be interesting: top dollar for the first 40Mhz, bottom dollar for the second 40Mhz. I believe they then spent additional money to make it contiguous.  Squatters would typically position themselves right after AT&T yet before T-Mobile.

[4GHoward]

[RAvirani]

8 hours ago, 4GHoward said:

Where is this map from?