T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[tyroned3222]

Wow! Band 2 deployment is very speedy just like band 12. I have seen band 2 lte pop up in many places. Is it true t mobile is starting band 2 with 5mhz ?

 

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

[reedacus25]

Wow! Band 2 deployment is very speedy just like band 12. I have seen band 2 lte pop up in many places. Is it true t mobile is starting band 2 with 5mhz ?

 

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

Depends on a few different variables, some markets are going 10x10 (or 15x15 in Dallas iirc) when there is excess spectrum to devote to it, usually by having 50 MHz of AWS-1 to keep 1c UMTS in 2100, this freeing up PCS for GSM+ LTE.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tyroned3222]

Depends on a few different variables, some markets are going 10x10 (or 15x15 in Dallas iirc) when there is excess spectrum to devote to it, usually by having 50 MHz of AWS-1 to keep 1c UMTS in 2100, this freeing up PCS for GSM+ LTE.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am in el paso tx and we need band 2 really bad

 

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

[reedacus25]

I am in el paso tx and we need band 2 really bad

 

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

 

El Paso has:

• AWS D (5x5)
• AWS E (5x5)
• AWS F (10x10)
• PCS A (15x15)
• PCS B3 (5x5)

AWS D-F all contiguous, all LTE I imagine. So 20x20 L2100 @ EARFCN 2300.

 

They should also have at least, 2c UMTS in PCS A, pick whatever UARFCN's you want, with the rest GSM.

 

Right now they can likely support 5x5 L1900 + 2c UMTS (DC-HSPA) at full 5 MHz wide channels.

 

Coupled with L700, this gets you to 60 MHz of deployed LTE (20 MHz deployed UMTS, 10 MHz deployed GSM).

 

However, I can think of at least one scenario where I believe they could achieve 10x10 L1900 with 2c UMTS (not DC-HSPA), and GSM. Shove 10x10 L1900 to whatever edge of the A block, and in the remaining 5x5 block, you squeeze a 3.8 MHz carrier, surrounded by GSM carriers. Do the same thing with the B block license, with a single 3.8 MHz carrier, and GSM carriers surrounding it.

 

Should be enough for a k=4 reuse pattern.

 

However, I think you will likely see them move to 1c UMTS at full width, and expand the L1900 carrier to 10x10 when UMTS traffic warrants its not being needed anymore. The radios and antennas likely would not have enough ports to support that many separate connections in random spectrum blocks unfortunately.

 

Hopefully that answers your question. There's a path to it, but it will likely be a gradual transition. And likely around 2018, although maybe sooner, you may see them remove UMTS completely and move to complete LTE in the A block, leaving 5 MHz of GSM for circuit voice, which should be plenty to carry the voice traffic after more LTE device penetration.

 

The good part about the L1900 deployment in most markets is that it requires little if any tower top work to achieve. A system module installed at the tower bottom, and either a reconfigured radio, or a reusing of existing U2100 lines gets it on air without needing to climb the tower. Therefore, the turnaround time to bringing it online is relatively short compared to say the L700 overlay.

[tyroned3222]

El Paso has:

• AWS D (5x5)
• AWS E (5x5)
• AWS F (10x10)
• PCS A (15x15)
• PCS B3 (5x5)

AWS D-F all contiguous, all LTE I imagine. So 20x20 L2100 @ EARFCN 2300.

 

They should also have at least, 2c UMTS in PCS A, pick whatever UARFCN's you want, with the rest GSM.

 

Right now they can likely support 5x5 L1900 + 2c UMTS (DC-HSPA) at full 5 MHz wide channels.

 

Coupled with L700, this gets you to 60 MHz of deployed LTE (20 MHz deployed UMTS, 10 MHz deployed GSM).

 

However, I can think of at least one scenario where I believe they could achieve 10x10 L1900 with 2c UMTS (not DC-HSPA), and GSM. Shove 10x10 L1900 to whatever edge of the A block, and in the remaining 5x5 block, you squeeze a 3.8 MHz carrier, surrounded by GSM carriers. Do the same thing with the B block license, with a single 3.8 MHz carrier, and GSM carriers surrounding it.

 

Should be enough for a k=4 reuse pattern.

 

However, I think you will likely see them move to 1c UMTS at full width, and expand the L1900 carrier to 10x10 when UMTS traffic warrants its not being needed anymore. The radios and antennas likely would not have enough ports to support that many separate connections in random spectrum blocks unfortunately.

 

Hopefully that answers your question. There's a path to it, but it will likely be a gradual transition. And likely around 2018, although maybe sooner, you may see them remove UMTS completely and move to complete LTE in the A block, leaving 5 MHz of GSM for circuit voice, which should be plenty to carry the voice traffic after more LTE device penetration.

 

The good part about the L1900 deployment in most markets is that it requires little if any tower top work to achieve. A system module installed at the tower bottom, and either a reconfigured radio, or a reusing of existing U2100 lines gets it on air without needing to climb the tower. Therefore, the turnaround time to bringing it online is relatively short compared to say the L700 overlay.

Nice! Yes just what i needed. Yes 700 just got offically annouced 5 days ago. Which im sure there are more towers that will get 700. Just one more thing... what in the near future will be the fastest way to resolve the congestion issue? Is it band to with 5 megahertz to give little breathing room or at the rate that T-Mobile is growing I have to take in all those factors that you mentioned?

 

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

[tyroned3222]

El Paso has:

• AWS D (5x5)
• AWS E (5x5)
• AWS F (10x10)
• PCS A (15x15)
• PCS B3 (5x5)

AWS D-F all contiguous, all LTE I imagine. So 20x20 L2100 @ EARFCN 2300.

 

They should also have at least, 2c UMTS in PCS A, pick whatever UARFCN's you want, with the rest GSM.

 

Right now they can likely support 5x5 L1900 + 2c UMTS (DC-HSPA) at full 5 MHz wide channels.

 

Coupled with L700, this gets you to 60 MHz of deployed LTE (20 MHz deployed UMTS, 10 MHz deployed GSM).

 

However, I can think of at least one scenario where I believe they could achieve 10x10 L1900 with 2c UMTS (not DC-HSPA), and GSM. Shove 10x10 L1900 to whatever edge of the A block, and in the remaining 5x5 block, you squeeze a 3.8 MHz carrier, surrounded by GSM carriers. Do the same thing with the B block license, with a single 3.8 MHz carrier, and GSM carriers surrounding it.

 

Should be enough for a k=4 reuse pattern.

 

However, I think you will likely see them move to 1c UMTS at full width, and expand the L1900 carrier to 10x10 when UMTS traffic warrants its not being needed anymore. The radios and antennas likely would not have enough ports to support that many separate connections in random spectrum blocks unfortunately.

 

Hopefully that answers your question. There's a path to it, but it will likely be a gradual transition. And likely around 2018, although maybe sooner, you may see them remove UMTS completely and move to complete LTE in the A block, leaving 5 MHz of GSM for circuit voice, which should be plenty to carry the voice traffic after more LTE device penetration.

 

The good part about the L1900 deployment in most markets is that it requires little if any tower top work to achieve. A system module installed at the tower bottom, and either a reconfigured radio, or a reusing of existing U2100 lines gets it on air without needing to climb the tower. Therefore, the turnaround time to bringing it online is relatively short compared to say the L700 overlay.

Also with the tower grid being as dense as it is on the gsm network for T-Mobile. You think they need small cells immediately to fix congestion or do they have enough Spectrum to clear up the congestion

 

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

[Paynefanbro]

Also with the tower grid being as dense as it is on the gsm network for T-Mobile. You think they need small cells immediately to fix congestion or do they have enough Spectrum to clear up the congestion

 

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

According to the T-Mobile Reddit, some places T-Mobile has plans for small cells like Denver due to congestion not being able to be solved by spectrum alone.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[tyroned3222]

According to the T-Mobile Reddit, some places T-Mobile has plans for small cells like Denver due to congestion not being able to be solved by spectrum alone.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I did read that and chicago as well

 

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

[Trip]

Cross-posting from T4GRU:

 

Well, as the owner of an LG Leon LTE, I find that phone to spend most of its time on 700, which is fine if I'm looking for 700, but not fine if I'm trying to find towers with AWS and no 700.

 

So I went ahead and ordered the $50 Amazon ad-included Blu R1 HD and a T-Mobile SIM kit.  It doesn't support B12 (yet; might come in an update from what I read) which is probably a good thing for me at this point. 

 

If anyone's interested, I'll give some opinions on it once I have it.  I paid for 1-day shipping so I should have it on the 13th, in time for a trip on the 14th.

 

- Trip

 

Well, I have the phone in-hand, took it with me to the beach, and here's my two cents.

 

First of all, I threw $20 on a T-Mobile pre-paid plan just for kicks, but so far, can't get the phone to do anything beyond "Emergency Calls Only."  It IS on LTE while doing that, so it works for the purpose I bought it for, but it's still very annoying that I can't make it work the way I need to.  I'll be calling T-Mobile support at some point to try to get that sorted.

 

From an RF perspective, the phone appears to be somewhat more deaf than my LG Leon LTE.  On AWS, it seems to be 5-7 dB weaker (according to SignalCheck Pro), and it likes to fall back to HSPA or EDGE much more rapidly than my Leon, even when Band 12 is unavailable for the Leon to fall back on. 

 

One feature I do really like is that the engineering mode screen (which can be accessed through Activity Launcher) allows a by-band/technology setting, including the enabling of Band 12.  I could make the phone LTE-only if I wanted by disabling all the GSM and HSPA bands, or I could look for B12 only, etc.  If I was starting my phone collection from scratch, I would buy another of these for T-Mobile and have one set for Band 2/4 only and another for Band 12 only.  (Does anyone want to buy an LG Leon LTE?)  I wish it supported Band 5; if it did, I would also want to use it for AT&T for the same reason.

 

It seems to have some bugs with SignalCheck Pro.  When connected to LTE, it simultaneously shows invalid GSM data and logs it as "LTE" in the GSM log.  Additionally, when connected to EDGE, it says "No connection" even though it's clearly connected.  But it definitely updates more frequently than the Leon, which is nice, but it also seems like it does not report PSC data to SCP for the connected cell even though it does use PSC for neighbor cells.  Not sure what the deal is there, or if that's a bug of some sort.

 

As for the phone itself, the battery life seems comparable to my Nexus 5 (AT&T) and my Moto E (Verizon).  I like the screen in general, but it's polarized such that my polarized sunglasses make the screen look like it's off when I hold it vertically.  Like the Nexus 5, the Micro USB port on the bottom is upside down, and unlike any of my other phones, it's offset to the left side.  I had fits figuring out how the SIM locking mechanisms worked, but I eventually figured it out.  I don't like the button placement, but I think that's personal preference.  I can't speak to the sound or camera quality since I've tested neither.

 

Although the phone has two SIMs, as expected and against hopes, it appears that only one will send data to SCP at a time, it seems, though you can have GSM active on both at once (presumably for incoming calls). 

 

Any questions I can answer?

 

- Trip

[jgore43]

 

 

.

 

 

 

Any questions I can answer?

 

- Trip

Does it have a software mechanism for choosing which sim is the active one for being connected to LTE/hspa ? An example of what I mean, could you have an att sim and t mobile sim and check the signal of both without having to physically swap the SIMs around.

 

 

I haven't ever messed with a dual sim phone. This was one of the things that really interested me about it.

 

 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[Trip]

Does it have a software mechanism for choosing which sim is the active one for being connected to LTE/hspa ? An example of what I mean, could you have an att sim and t mobile sim and check the signal of both without having to physically swap the SIMs around.

 

 

I haven't ever messed with a dual sim phone. This was one of the things that really interested me about it.

 

 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

Yes, you can choose in software.  I have an AT&T SIM card in slot 2 but there's no service on it, so I can't actually test the software swapping at this point.

 

- Trip

[Arysyn]

Quick note here, especially as I wrote a long post in the AT&T thread. I am finally gone from T-Mobile after having a successful switch over to AT&T. It took a long time and several attempts at getting the arrangements made I mentioned about in that post, but it all worked out well in the end. I definitely like AT&T's network here in the Chicago area from my past experience on Cricket, and now that the pricing setup is arranged, along with the device in working order (Samsung Galaxy S7 Active), I'm good to go and finally off of T-Mobile!

[tyroned3222]

http://m.elpasoinc.com/news/local_news/article_db81ba48-42bb-11e6-a7c2-73d33531ee87.html?mode=jqm el paso is a big market for tmobile. Can anyone confirm t mobile starting cell splits. Are they very costly more then small cells ?

 

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

[derrph]

EVERYONE TAKE COVER...THERES A STORM ON THE HORIZON...IT LOOKS LIKE UPGRADE/ACTIVATION FEES!

 

http://www.tmonews.com/2016/07/t-mobile-assisted-service-upgrade-fee-launching-july-31-select-customers/

 

But no seriously...the comments are too funny with everyone being mad/deceived about it. Well for me I'm not shocked. T-Mobile and John will start to show themselves more and more as the months go on. John and his board figures millions have bought into their propaganda now let's do what we really want to but mask it up with select wording. Thoughts folks?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6s+ using Tapatalk

[NYC126]

EVERYONE TAKE COVER...THERES A STORM ON THE HORIZON...IT LOOKS LIKE UPGRADE/ACTIVATION FEES!

 

http://www.tmonews.com/2016/07/t-mobile-assisted-service-upgrade-fee-launching-july-31-select-customers/

 

But no seriously...the comments are too funny with everyone being mad/deceived about it. Well for me I'm not shocked. T-Mobile and John will start to show themselves more and more as the months go on. John and his board figures millions have bought into their propaganda now let's do what we really want to but mask it up with select wording. Thoughts folks?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6s+ using Tapatalk

John Legere was a slime at the previous firm, and he is an AT&T product that worked under Dan Hesse. Tmobile network can't handle the organic growth anymore, too much congestion everywhere so John will do now what every corporation do,  grow slowly at maximum profits. 

[ndog21]

John Legere was a slime at the previous firm, and he is an AT&T product that worked under Dan Hesse. Tmobile network can't handle the organic growth anymore, too much congestion everywhere so John will do now what every corporation do, grow slowly at maximum profits.

This makes total sense and I kind of saw hints of this in the beginning. I wonder how he will present further changes like this in press conferences, earnings calls, social media and Periscope.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[derrph]

John Legere was a slime at the previous firm, and he is an AT&T product that worked under Dan Hesse. Tmobile network can't handle the organic growth anymore, too much congestion everywhere so John will do now what every corporation do, grow slowly at maximum profits.

This is very true. I agree with you that the writing was on the wall from the start with the plan of getting as many people on the network and then slowly pull the carpet from up under them. But I just can't believe that people thought John was "looking" out for them. John is and never will be your friend. He's there to bring money into that carrier. All of this was a roadmap that they weren't sure was going to work but took a chance. Phase 1 complete. Now onto phase 2.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6s+ using Tapatalk

[Fraydog]

Arsyn is just not in a good T-Mobile market. I see a lot of the same in the other part of the state, i.e. downstate Southern Illinois with no band 12 on the horizon. 

 

Honestly they're behind in Illinois compared to most states with the exception of places like Wisconsin and the Great Plains states where T-Mobile is just starting a long term network buildout. It is what it is. I was in Ohio and Kentucky the last few weeks and it seemed like T-Mobile was way ahead there compared to IL. Those states are probably more of an indicator of T-Mobile's network and what it is like nationwide compared to IL. 

 

T-Mobile has low band in 29 of the top 30 markets. I'm in the one market that isn't. I've accepted my market (St. Louis) probably isn't a good barometer of T-Mobile. 

[centermedic]

EVERYONE TAKE COVER...THERES A STORM ON THE HORIZON...IT LOOKS LIKE UPGRADE/ACTIVATION FEES!

 

http://www.tmonews.com/2016/07/t-mobile-assisted-service-upgrade-fee-launching-july-31-select-customers/

 

But no seriously...the comments are too funny with everyone being mad/deceived about it. Well for me I'm not shocked. T-Mobile and John will start to show themselves more and more as the months go on. John and his board figures millions have bought into their propaganda now let's do what we really want to but mask it up with select wording. Thoughts folks?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6s+ using Tapatalk

As much as I don't like John this is an accepted buisness practice. Entice them in and then jack up the price. Marcelo recently stated that he planned to do the same thing.

[Arysyn]

Arsyn is just not in a good T-Mobile market. I see a lot of the same in the other part of the state, i.e. downstate Southern Illinois with no band 12 on the horizon.

 

Honestly they're behind in Illinois compared to most states with the exception of places like Wisconsin and the Great Plains states where T-Mobile is just starting a long term network buildout. It is what it is. I was in Ohio and Kentucky the last few weeks and it seemed like T-Mobile was way ahead there compared to IL. Those states are probably more of an indicator of T-Mobile's network and what it is like nationwide compared to IL.

 

T-Mobile has low band in 29 of the top 30 markets. I'm in the one market that isn't. I've accepted my market (St. Louis) probably isn't a good barometer of T-Mobile.

I'm wondering if Illinois is a bad state for T-Mobile in general, including in Chicago. Thank goodness my mother's prepaid service with T-Mobile is almost over, and is learning to use her new smartwatch on AT&T. The T-Mobile service around here became unbearable to use after Binge On was introduced. Before that it was fine on the predominant 15x15 AWS and sometime 5x5 or 10x10 PCS LTE though I don't remember the exact amount of PCS LTE here in the Chicago area. Still, its little spectrum compared with what AT&T has here.

 

Have you considered trying AT&T, Fraydog? The unlimited plan is great, especially with the Freelancers Union discount gusherb originally mentioned. Even without the television service, you could get the $100 monthly 15gb plan for just under $80 monthly with the discount.

[gusherb]

I'm wondering if Illinois is a bad state for T-Mobile in general, including in Chicago. Thank goodness my mother's prepaid service with T-Mobile is almost over, and is learning to use her new smartwatch on AT&T. The T-Mobile service around here became unbearable to use after Binge On was introduced. Before that it was fine on the predominant 15x15 AWS and sometime 5x5 or 10x10 PCS LTE though I don't remember the exact amount of PCS LTE here in the Chicago area. Still, its little spectrum compared with what AT&T has here.

 

Have you considered trying AT&T, Fraydog? The unlimited plan is great, especially with the Freelancers Union discount gusherb originally mentioned. Even without the television service, you could get the $100 monthly 15gb plan for just under $80 monthly with the discount.

Looking at coverage maps (zoomed in, not the pretty pink "coverage everywhere" zoomed out one") they aren't the worst but not the best either. They will likely continue to fall behind as they don't have any 700A to deploy in the majority of the state, as more of it is deployed elsewhere. Indiana for example does better for T-Mo than IL, and will continue to improve since NWI will now be getting 700A soon.

 

They could've been doing great in Chicago if they had started investing in it sooner, but they do run a pretty lean ship and didn't wanna spend the money a year ago when they should have started. I suspect they held off until they knew they would have 700A in their arsenal since the competition is fierce from the other three, and without it probably would've spent a ton of money and not quite gotten the results they want.

[Arysyn]

Looking at coverage maps (zoomed in, not the pretty pink "coverage everywhere" zoomed out one") they aren't the worst but not the best either. They will likely continue to fall behind as they don't have any 700A to deploy in the majority of the state, as more of it is deployed elsewhere. Indiana for example does better for T-Mo than IL, and will continue to improve since NWI will now be getting 700A soon.

 

They could've been doing great in Chicago if they had started investing in it sooner, but they do run a pretty lean ship and didn't wanna spend the money a year ago when they should have started. I suspect they held off until they knew they would have 700A in their arsenal since the competition is fierce from the other three, and without it probably would've spent a ton of money and not quite gotten the results they want.

I'm hoping the 700mhz will help T-Mobile once it is deployed here. I know I was depending on it prior to getting AT&T, which I'm very happy about. The biggest issue for T-Mobile around here besides spectrum, definitely seems to be Binge On though, as T-Mobile was pretty good otherwise around here prior to Binge On being introduced.

 

T-Mobile would be doing much better by eliminating Binge On and introducing speed capped unlimited plans. My idea for them would be to have it start at $45 monthly for 1.5mbps, $60 monthly for 3mbps, $75 monthly for 9mbps, $90 monthly for 15mbps.

[reedacus25]

They could've been doing great in Chicago if they had started investing in it sooner, but they do run a pretty lean ship and didn't wanna spend the money a year ago when they should have started. I suspect they held off until they knew they would have 700A in their arsenal since the competition is fierce from the other three, and without it probably would've spent a ton of money and not quite gotten the results they want.

I'll entertain the notion that they likely have been running a lean ship out of necessity, more so than want. So by the time that the money came in to get the ball rolling on projects, it was likely "too late" to head the congestion off at the pass if you will. And here we are. Not saying this is fact, but a plausible scenario.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gusherb]

I'll entertain the notion that they likely have been running a lean ship out of necessity, more so than want. So by the time that the money came in to get the ball rolling on projects, it was likely "too late" to head the congestion off at the pass if you will. And here we are. Not saying this is fact, but a plausible scenario.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I suggest want instead of necessity because they're numbers have been good for the last year or so. If they really wanted to they could have spent the money on it sooner and then not had as good of numbers to show. But I also think it wasn't just a money thing but also them wanting to have 700A before they go doing all this investment.

[tyroned3222]

How long will band 12,(5×5mhz)band 4(20×20mhz, band 2(20×20mhz) aggregated.. before t mobile runs into congestion(is it even possible to have congestion with that much spectrum dedicated to lte

 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk