Sprint Reportedly Bowing Out of T-Mobile Bid (was "Sprint offer" and "Iliad" threads)

[bigsnake49]

I do not know if he's "unmotivated" now. But he sure seemed like it when he was at Clearwire directing network management. But plenty of Clearwire folks jumped the ship when the deal closed, and several Sprint folks did, too. Senior people, even!

 Sprint's and also Clearwire's problem was money. 

[lilotimz]

I do not know if he's "unmotivated" now. But he sure seemed like it when he was at Clearwire directing network management. But plenty of Clearwire folks jumped the ship when the deal closed, and several Sprint folks did, too. Senior people, even!

Well then, you of all people should know that your words are taken seriously here and that when you say something as significant as the head of network being unmotivated you'll have definite proof.

 

Anyways, I don't think we have any conclusive proof of motivation or not now to judge him yet. I'd give him this quarter to see if he can fix some things and bring the new deployment ip to speed.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5

[bigsnake49]

I haven't seen any aggressiveness in Sprint's action plan to deploy VoLTE as of late. And considering a push towards EVRC-NW while everyone else is using W-AMR, I'd love to see that Multi-Operator VoLTE integration in action. May not be as seamless as we think.

 

HSPA+42 is still a viable airlink for data, voice and roamers. And it's being migrated to PCS which widens up contiguity for LTE in the AWS.

 

Worth saying that T-Mobile subs don't have CDMA capable handsets, and can't necessarily utilize Sprint's voice in the short term. Moving everyone to HSPA/LTE significantly cuts the manufacturing and licensing cost.

 

If HSPA+42 is completeley migrated to PCS, then great, no problem!

 

The only problem that I see is CDMA on 1x/SMR and cellular. It will be available to Sprint customers but not to T-Mobile customers. Unless T-Mobile customers can roam on AT&T, then there will definitely be an uneven network footprint.

Edited May 3, 2014 by bigsnake49

[milan03]

If HSPA+42 is completeley migrated to PCS, then great, no problem!

 

The only problem that I see is CDMA on 1x/SMR and cellular. It will be available to Sprint customers but not to T-Mobile customers. Unless T-Mobile customers can roam on AT&T, then there will definitely an uneven network footprint.

Yeah, there are already some major markets like Detroit, Dallas, Chicago with HSPA+42 moved to PCS, while only a single HSPA+21 carrier remains in the AWS. This is how they have live 15Mhz and 20Mhz wide LTE channels.

[bigsnake49]

It depends on whether the cost/benefit works out. The "magenta contingent" doesn't care whether or not Sprint participates. Regardless of its participation, there will be at least 2x15MHz reserved for Sprint and T-Mobile (though there are efforts underway to expand this to 2x20MHz or 2x25MHz as the minimum). T-Mobile is likely to only grab 2x10MHz at most. That leaves plenty for Sprint. Personally, I want Sprint to bid for both. But from a utilitarian perspective, 600MHz doesn't look that great for Sprint compared to working to expand to up to 2x9MHz of ESMR.

 

 

There were many people in the Clearwire side and the Sprint side that couldn't get along, and now the only people left from Clearwire at Sprint were the particularly unmotivated ones, like John Saw (the Chief Network Officer). I'm rather concerned about the effect that will have on Sprint in the future.

 

Sprint will participate in th 600MHz auction. You can take that to the bank.

 

As far as trying to expand SMR to 9x9MHz, how do you propose to do that? 

 

Now Sprint also has some 900MHz spectrum which will undergo rebanding to form a 3x3Mhz LTE band and a 2x2MHz LMR band. They are actually better off selling that to utilities for smart grid applications.

[Conan Kudo]

Sprint will participate in th 600MHz auction. You can take that to the bank.

 

As far as trying to expand SMR to 9x9MHz, how do you propose to do that? 

 

Now Sprint also has some 900MHz spectrum which will undergo rebanding to form a 3x3Mhz LTE band and a 2x2MHz LMR band. They are actually better off selling that to utilities for smart grid applications.

There are some quiet efforts to make it so that the Expansion Band and Guard Bands in SMR are offered to ESMR incumbents after rebanding before being made available to potential new licensees. In virtually all markets except the Southeast and a few states up in the North Central region, Sprint is the sole incumbent. This would expand Sprint's ESMR from 817-824 / 862-869 MHz to 815-824 / 860-869 MHz. A new "guard" between narrowband SMR and broadband ESMR would be placed below that, most likely.

 

As for LMR, Sprint is more likely to divest it or swap it for contiguous SMR anyway.

[Rawvega]

It depends on whether the cost/benefit works out. The "magenta contingent" doesn't care whether or not Sprint participates. Regardless of its participation, there will be at least 2x15MHz reserved for Sprint and T-Mobile (though there are efforts underway to expand this to 2x20MHz or 2x25MHz as the minimum). T-Mobile is likely to only grab 2x10MHz at most. That leaves plenty for Sprint. Personally, I want Sprint to bid for both. But from a utilitarian perspective, 600MHz doesn't look that great for Sprint compared to working to expand to up to 2x9MHz of ESMR.

 

You can believe that they don't care if you wish. It's only common sense that at an auction you would ideally like to have fewer (if any) well capitalized competitors to bid against. Additionally, I'm not quite sure how Sprint will get 9+9 SMR, but even if possible, there are still border region issues to be worked out. I don't see how getting a couple of extra MHz of SMR is better than bidding for 10+10, 15+15 or 20+20 MHz of 600MHz spectrum. Going along those lines though, wouldn't it be better for T-Mobile to skip the headache of the 600MHz auction and instead use those funds to try and acquire more 700A licenses?

 

 

There were many people in the Clearwire side and the Sprint side that couldn't get along, and now the only people left from Clearwire at Sprint were the particularly unmotivated ones, like John Saw (the Chief Network Officer). I'm rather concerned about the effect that will have on Sprint in the future.

 

 

 

In a merger there are always going to be those who don't get along. I'd wager that it wasn't all peaches and cream between T-Mobile and MetroPCS either. In any event, you're not really showing any actual acquisition issues with Clearwire. Nor have you been able to show this alleged "unmotivated" John Saw. Supposition aside, he apparently was motivated enough to earn himself a promotion. So what that brings us back to is Nextel. I don't really know if a single instance of integration issues a decade ago is enough to establish a meaningful "historical" trend, especially when most, if not all, of the executives and board members from that transaction are no longer with the company.

[Conan Kudo]

You can believe that they don't care if you wish. It's only common sense that at an auction you would ideally like to have fewer (if any) well capitalized competitors to bid against. Additionally, I'm not quite sure how Sprint will get 9+9 SMR, but even if possible, there are still border region issues to be worked out. I don't see how getting a couple of extra MHz of SMR is better than bidding for 10+10, 15+15 or 20+20 MHz of 600MHz spectrum. Going along those lines though, wouldn't it be better for T-Mobile to skip the headache of the 600MHz auction and instead use those funds to try and acquire more 700A licenses?

I am in fact advocating for that, as well. I think the 600MHz auction has "bad idea" written all over it. I would much prefer if T-Mobile and Sprint focused on alternative options (Sprint with expanding ESMR, T-Mobile with acquiring Lower 700MHz licenses).

 

In a merger there are always going to be those who don't get along. I'd wager that it wasn't all peaches and cream between T-Mobile and MetroPCS either. In any event, you're not really showing any actual acquisition issues with Clearwire. Nor have you been able to show this alleged "unmotivated" John Saw. Supposition aside, he apparently was motivated enough to earn himself a promotion. So what that brings us back to is Nextel. I don't really know if a single instance of integration issues a decade ago is enough to establish a meaningful "historical" trend, especially when most, if not all, of the executives and board members from that transaction are no longer with the company.

You are correct. There were a few from MetroPCS who didn't make it over, mainly because T-Mobile wanted to relocate administrative positions to Seattle. The execs chose to make the move. Only Roger Linquist didn't make it over, but that was known as part of the merger anyway. Mostly some lower level admins didn't make the move by choice.

 

I'm holding a "wait and see" attitude about it with the Clearwire folks that made it over to Sprint, but I'm not particularly optimistic.

[bigsnake49]

There are some quiet efforts to make it so that the Expansion Band and Guard Bands in SMR are offered to ESMR incumbents after rebanding before being made available to potential new licensees. In virtually all markets except the Southeast and a few states up in the North Central region, Sprint is the sole incumbent. This would expand Sprint's ESMR from 817-824 / 862-869 MHz to 815-824 / 860-869 MHz. A new "guard" between narrowband SMR and broadband ESMR would be placed below that, most likely.

 

As for LMR, Sprint is more likely to divest it or swap it for contiguous SMR anyway.

 

Divest as in sell it? If they can swap it for SMR that will be great.

[hescominsoon]

Not really it is a rant. Sprint doesn't fit tor needs leave and stop commenting on forums about Sprint, it's network upgrades or any other related topic. If Sprint has burned you then there are other companies in the market place, move on with your life. I have been a Sprint customer for over 10 years , never lived in a wimax area and can say I was never burned by them. I had choices and I made mine, make yours and leave people interested in the topics discussed here alone.

i've been a sprint customer for over 15 years.  Cost was the reason i stayed..now that price is at parity ALL of the vendors are in play.  t-mob isn't an option as they have zero coverage..so it's Sprint, ATT, and Verizon.

[Rawvega]

I am in fact advocating for that, as well. I think the 600MHz auction has "bad idea" written all over it. I would much prefer if T-Mobile and Sprint focused on alternative options (Sprint with expanding ESMR, T-Mobile with acquiring Lower 700MHz licenses).

 

My only issue with that thinking is how strongly opposed AT&T and VZW are to the FCC's proposal to reserve some of the 600MHz spectrum for Sprint, T-Mobile and other smaller carriers to bid upon. In general, if AT&T and VZW are against something I tend to be for it and vice versa. While there may be issues with the TV broadcasters wanting to relinquish spectrum, surely you have to concede that there's some legitimate reason why the Twin Bells want to be free to buy it all up for themselves.

[Conan Kudo]

My only issue with that thinking is how strongly opposed AT&T and VZW are to the FCC's proposal to reserve some of the 600MHz spectrum for Sprint, T-Mobile and other smaller carriers to bid upon. In general, if AT&T and VZW are against something I tend to be for it and vice versa. While there may be issues with the TV broadcasters wanting to relinquish spectrum, surely you have to concede that there's some legitimate reason why the Twin Bells want to be free to buy it all up for themselves.

Of course. I just think we should re-examine the spectrum we have before we go after new bands. And we're going to have a huge problem with the inability to have both 600MHz and 700MHz on the same device, due to the multi-duplexer requirements and the nearness of the two bands. I'm also concerned about the fact we're depending on broadcasters voluntarily relinquishing their licenses to create the 600MHz band.

[bigsnake49]

Anyway, Sprint does not need AWS-3. I am pretty sure that Dish will bid for the unpaired portion1695-1710 MHz, and then combine it with the 2180-2200MHz sliver. They can then combine their PCS-H block and their 2000-2020MHz and trade it to Sprint for some EBS spectrum. Sprint can then combine it with their PCS G block to form a 30x10MHz block. I don't think too many people will bid for the 1695-1710Mhz block since it is only an uplink.

[nmbr1scoobs]

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/pogue-catches-up-with-t-mobile-ceo-john-legere-84461443194.html

 

John Legere commenting on the meger:

David Pogue: What about these Sprint takeover rumors?

John Legere: If you’re talking about the rumor about Sprint’s interest in T-Mobile, it’s been around for a long time. That’s been floating around since at least 2012. Nothing particularly new there.

On any specific deal that may or may not be going on, I really have no comment. But as a telecom professional who’s been at this game a long time, could I wake up tomorrow and use the access and capabilities of those two companies — and the economic prowess of the two owners — to create something really different and sustainable in the U.S. wireless industry? I sure as hell could.

But that’s a different type of question.

DP: But T-Mobile and Sprint are different, incompatible network types (GSM and CDMA). How would that work?

JL: We merged a year ago with MetroPCS, which is a CDMA carrier. More than half the customers have already moved over and gotten new handsets on the T-network. So rather than mash together two complicated network technologies, what we’re doing is migrating the customers from one to the other over time.

Then we’re taking those CDMA components and shutting them down. And we’re taking that radio spectrum and using it to make the T-Mobile side even better, because now you have more radio waves available for more customers. It’s a really interesting model. We’re talking about 10 million customers from MetroPCS.

[anthony.spina97]

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/pogue-catches-up-with-t-mobile-ceo-john-legere-84461443194.html

 

John Legere commenting on the meger:

David Pogue: What about these Sprint takeover rumors?

John Legere: If you’re talking about the rumor about Sprint’s interest in T-Mobile, it’s been around for a long time. That’s been floating around since at least 2012. Nothing particularly new there.

On any specific deal that may or may not be going on, I really have no comment. But as a telecom professional who’s been at this game a long time, could I wake up tomorrow and use the access and capabilities of those two companies — and the economic prowess of the two owners — to create something really different and sustainable in the U.S. wireless industry? I sure as hell could.

But that’s a different type of question.

DP: But T-Mobile and Sprint are different, incompatible network types (GSM and CDMA). How would that work?

JL: We merged a year ago with MetroPCS, which is a CDMA carrier. More than half the customers have already moved over and gotten new handsets on the T-network. So rather than mash together two complicated network technologies, what we’re doing is migrating the customers from one to the other over time.

Then we’re taking those CDMA components and shutting them down. And we’re taking that radio spectrum and using it to make the T-Mobile side even better, because now you have more radio waves available for more customers. It’s a really interesting model. We’re talking about 10 million customers from MetroPCS.

He seems to posess the ability to occasionally NOT be a dick... But only occasionally

 

-Anthony

[irev210]

I do not know if he's "unmotivated" now. But he sure seemed like it when he was at Clearwire directing network management. But plenty of Clearwire folks jumped the ship when the deal closed, and several Sprint folks did, too. Senior people, even!

 

Conan - I think if you take a closer look at what happened, the "unmotivated" people seemed to be forced out of Sprint.  Saw seemed to be limited by the realities of a capital constrained company.  Perhaps you should take a look at what he was actually able to accomplish with the amount of resources he had.  When you look at it that way, it's actually pretty amazing.  Listening to Saw speak over the years, I always walked away thinking he was pretty motivated but restricted given Clearwire's financial situation.

 

 

So basically anyone who is not for the merger ain't welcome here

 

Nobody is bothering me - I'm very against the merger because I believe it will lead to less competition and higher prices.  I've explained my position multiple times and while some might not agree, I haven't received any push back.  I don't think you can just talk about what happened to Sprint 5 years ago - that's a different world.  Focus on today, Son, Hesse, Saw, etc.  It's an extremely capable company that's really starting to turn around.

 

The narrative that four carriers have Done anything to reduce price for consumers is something that can be substituted. There has been a shift in how the wireless industry opperates but not in the end price the average consumer pays.

 

The arguemsnt Softbank is making is that we have a duopoly that drive the industry and has all of the industry's profits. By creating a third player with the same scale you are turning a duopoly in to a three players oligopoly. I am starting to by the idea.

 

I think we've seen it on the fringes.  Discounts in the form of retention offers and port-in offers for new subs.  Also, the question you aren't asking is - how much higher would prices be?  Right now carriers are investing a lot moving to LTE.  If it wasn't for T-Mobile/Sprint, how much more would VZN and AT&T be charging?  What has competition done to limit price increases?  I know Sprint wants to raise prices but it's very difficult for them to do so because of T-Mobile.

 

While we can't answer all of these questions, I can say if you look at what the industry is doing, it's giving people the choice to pay less by moving the phone subsidy out of the top line - this allows people to pay less if they want to go a bit longer without upgrading.

[milan03]

This is something we should keep in mind as well:

 

 

Going into 600MHz auction, Sprint's spectrum vest could actually hurt their chances of getting significant amount of 600MHz spectrum. Just imagine how much damage would that SprinT-Mobile merger portfolio do going into the incentive auction...

[bigsnake49]

This is something we should keep in mind as well:

 

 

Going into 600MHz auction, Sprint's spectrum vest could actually hurt their chances of getting significant amount of 600MHz spectrum. Just imagine how much damage would that SprinT-Mobile merger portfolio do going into the incentive auction...

 

Maybe in the old days of voice that would be impressive, but really it has to be tempered by the fact that all of that spectrum is FDD so divide it by 2 and in sprint's case the TDD should be be multiplied by 2/3. Then each frequency band should be weighed by its propagation characteristics so that it can be compared on an apples vs apples basis. While that is a great propaganda tool by the AT&T shills (not that you are one), it is not accurate. FCC engineers will know better.

 

Sprint said as much in its filing to the FCC:

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/sprint-fccs-spectrum-screen-proposal-will-give-advantage-att-verizon/2014-05-05

Edited May 6, 2014 by bigsnake49

[Bob Newhart]

This is something we should keep in mind as well:

 

*graph*

 

Going into 600MHz auction, Sprint's spectrum vest could actually hurt their chances of getting significant amount of 600MHz spectrum. Just imagine how much damage would that SprinT-Mobile merger portfolio do going into the incentive auction...

 

The frequency use should also be taken into consideration, if they're not using it, they can't be allocated any more until they using it. If they don't want a certain frequency, they are free to give to someone else.

[thepowerofdonuts]

How does this reserved spectrum work for Sprint and T-Mobile in the 600MHz auction?

[Fraydog]

 

DP: But T-Mobile and Sprint are different, incompatible network types (GSM and CDMA). How would that work?

JL: We merged a year ago with MetroPCS, which is a CDMA carrier. More than half the customers have already moved over and gotten new handsets on the T-network. So rather than mash together two complicated network technologies, what we’re doing is migrating the customers from one to the other over time.

Then we’re taking those CDMA components and shutting them down. And we’re taking that radio spectrum and using it to make the T-Mobile side even better, because now you have more radio waves available for more customers. It’s a really interesting model. We’re talking about 10 million customers from MetroPCS.

 

It sounds like Sprint customers would be migrated to all 3GPP if there was a merger. I truly doubt that Legere doesn't have some sort of ongoing communication with Son or high executives at Sprint like Hesse.

[bigsnake49]

It sounds like Sprint customers would be migrated to all 3GPP if there was a merger. I truly doubt that Legere doesn't have some sort of ongoing communication with Son or high executives at Sprint like Hesse.

I would think that voice will definitely migrate to T-Mobile's HSPA+42. I can also see them using the SMR 1x channel for GSM voice. Of course VoLTE will be the end target and all of this will be immaterial, except for roamers. If they merge I hope they just beef up coverage.

Edited May 7, 2014 by bigsnake49

[WiWavelength]

It sounds like Sprint customers would be migrated to all 3GPP if there was a merger.

 

Gag.  That would just throw CDMA1X 800 on to the scrap heap already.  And that would be a bad move.

 

You see, e/CSFB does not work so hot if LTE is deployed below 1 GHz while whatever is the circuit switched voice carrier -- W-CDMA or CDMA1X -- is deployed around 2 GHz.  The propagation characteristics, hence coverage footprints are so different.  T-Mobile sure as hell better realize this; otherwise, its band 12 LTE 700 deployment is going to fail e/CSFB calls right and left.  That is probably one reason why T-Mobile is pushing VoLTE up in the schedule.

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

I would think that voice will definitely migrate to T-Mobile's HSPA+42. I can also see them using the SMR 1x channel for GSM voice.

 

And I would think the general consensus here at S4GRU would be "Hell no!"  After we finally got low frequency voice in SMR, it would be taken away, replaced with T-Mobile PCS/AWS.  Back to square one.

 

Also, your statement about using SMR for GSM voice does not make sense.  Please elaborate.

 

AJ

[Fraydog]

AJ, I get all that. The problem is that we're too small a sample size to care about. Most Sprint users don't know, and don't care.

 

The thing I find amazing is that choices made over a decade - almost 20 years ago - still have such a large bearing in the US mobile industry.

 

I don't think a Sprint/T-Mobile merger is a hot idea. But that has almost nothing to do with 3GPP/3GPP2 integration. That has more to do with my thought that four competitors is better than three.