Why does LTE deployment lag the NV upgrades by so much?

[Josh]

Now this might be a very short thread, but I wanted to know why there is such a gap between the percentage of Network Vision complete and LTE complete in most markets that I have seen on the site acceptance reports.  

 

I know that there can be many different reasons that a site can get all the new equipment and not receive LTE, but with such a discrepancy in the percentages, is there something that has been limiting sprint from getting these sites online in a timely fashion?  

 

Is there a backorder for the network cards, or any other parts needed to go live? (if so, how come t-mobile had no problem with theirs)  

Is it all backhaul related? (we all know they did not have much in place before NV, but we have been at this for a while now... can't they contract to have backhaul in place before tower work even starts?)

Is there something else that I overlooked?

 

Robert can probably enlighten us, if not, I know someone here knows! lol. 

[lynyrd65]

The same reason the dinosaurs are dead

[Dkoellerwx]

 

 

Is it all backhaul related? (we all know they did not have much in place before NV, but we have been at this for a while now... can't they contract to have backhaul in place before tower work even starts?)

 

Pretty much.

 

Many of the companies contracted are being very difficult, and slow in fulfilling their contracts. To the point that Sprint went back to the drawing board in a couple places. Which only slowed things down more. 

[S4GRU]

In some instances it is carrier cards.  In some instances it is lack of LTE integration techs.  But these only cause delays of a few weeks, and extreme cases a month or two.  Long term delays for LTE 1900 is almost always backhaul.  LTE 800 it can be spectrum clearance too.

 

Robert

[tommym65]

Pretty much.

 

Many of the companies contracted are being very difficult, and slow in fulfilling their contracts. To the point that Sprint went back to the drawing board in a couple places. Which only slowed things down more. 

 

In some instances it is carrier cards.  In some instances it is lack of LTE integration techs.  But these only cause delays of a few weeks, and extreme cases a month or two.  Long term delays for LTE 1900 is almost always backhaul.  LTE 800 it can be spectrum clearance too.

 

Robert

 

And don't forget NIMBYs and permitting issues, which can cause significant delays in some areas (can you say "Hawaii", for example?).

[Dkoellerwx]

And don't forget NIMBYs and permitting issues, which can cause significant delays in some areas (can you say "Hawaii", for example?).

 

Well that prevents NV entirely. I think the question mostly pertains to sites that have equipment in place (3G accepted) but no LTE.

[S4GRU]

Well that prevents NV entirely. I think the question mostly pertains to sites that have equipment in place (3G accepted) but no LTE.

 

Yeah, that's how I interpreted the question.

 

Robert

[lilg740]

Now this might be a very short thread, but I wanted to know why there is such a gap between the percentage of Network Vision complete and LTE complete in most markets that I have seen on the site acceptance reports.  

 

I know that there can be many different reasons that a site can get all the new equipment and not receive LTE, but with such a discrepancy in the percentages, is there something that has been limiting sprint from getting these sites online in a timely fashion?  

 

Is there a backorder for the network cards, or any other parts needed to go live? (if so, how come t-mobile had no problem with theirs)  

Is it all backhaul related? (we all know they did not have much in place before NV, but we have been at this for a while now... can't they contract to have backhaul in place before tower work even starts?)

Is there something else that I overlooked?

 

Robert can probably enlighten us, if not, I know someone here knows! lol. 

Another point is that on the Acceptance report you could also be seeing the results of vendors going back and integrating the 3G side of the NV equipment. Almost 25,000 sites nationwide have LTE right now. You may want to become a sponsor and you can see which sites are actually 4G completed. 

[duddys31]

This might be a stupid question but if a site has been 3g/800/4g accepted what would keep that sight from being 800lte accepted. If they have gotten 1x800 accepted would that likely mean that the spectrum has been cleared for use.

[duddys31]

Guessing could just be not time yet for it to be done or carrier cards also I guess.

[JWMaloney]

This might be a stupid question but if a site has been 3g/800/4g accepted what would keep that sight from being 800lte accepted. If they have gotten 1x800 accepted would that likely mean that the spectrum has been cleared for use.

Not necessarily. 1x voice uses a lot less than a 5x5 LTE carrier.

[S4GRU]

Not necessarily. 1x voice uses a lot less than a 5x5 LTE carrier.

^^ This ^^

 

This might be a stupid question but if a site has been 3g/800/4g accepted what would keep that sight from being 800lte accepted. If they have gotten 1x800 accepted would that likely mean that the spectrum has been cleared for use.

 

For people who are in a market where rebanding is completed, both CDMA 800 and LTE 800 should be able to be deployed.  However, if a Public Safety Agency has been given an extension in that rebanded market, they may only interfere with the larger LTE 800 channel (3-5MHz), but the narrower CDMA 800 channel (1.25MHz) may be free and clear.

 

Robert

[duddys31]

Thanks that's what I was gathering from what was being discussed.

[z250kid]

back-haul.   Not only do they need there techs to tie in they also need the company there to hook it up.  Our company uses a box says multi link on it

[Zookeeper63]

^^ This ^^

 

 

 

 

 

For people who are in a market where rebanding is completed, both CDMA 800 and LTE 800 should be able to be deployed.  However, if a Public Safety Agency has been given an extension in that rebanded market, they may only interfere with the larger LTE 800 channel (3-5MHz), but the narrower CDMA 800 channel (1.25MHz) may be free and clear.

 

Robert

You said the "R" word...

[Josh]

I was mainly referring to the 1900Mhz PCS band, and the fact that here in Pittsburgh (and other areas too) we have 30% LTE and 80% NV acceptance. I figured what the answer would be, but wanted to see if anyone knew something I didn't. I figured that sprint would not want to drag their feet if it was avoidable. (Unless it is a cost thing)

The issues with 800MHz I can understand, but I still am excited for it to start (hopefully) soon.

[Dkoellerwx]

I was mainly referring to the 1900Mhz PCS band, and the fact that here in Pittsburgh (and other areas too) we have 30% LTE and 80% NV acceptance. I figured what the answer would be, but wanted to see if anyone knew something I didn't. I figured that sprint would not want to drag their feet if it was avoidable. (Unless it is a cost thing)

The issues with 800MHz I can understand, but I still am excited for it to start (hopefully) soon.

Part of that is also the fact that a vast majority of the sites not immediately around Pittsburgh were deployed as GMO sites. (More Info) Those are the lowest on the priority for getting LTE, and many of them may not get LTE until the are converted to full builds. 

[Josh]

Part of that is also the fact that a vast majority of the sites not immediately around Pittsburgh were deployed as GMO sites. (More Info) Those are the lowest on the priority for getting LTE, and many of them may not get LTE until the are converted to full builds.

I had thought Pittsburgh was mainly full builds & only a small percentage were GMO. Now the western pa market, which is everything outside the greater Pittsburgh area is ALL GMO.

[S4GRU]

I had thought Pittsburgh was mainly full builds & only a small percentage were GMO. Now the western pa market, which is everything outside the greater Pittsburgh area is ALL GMO.

 

We have a GMO map in the Premier Sponsor section.  It shows 100's of GMO sites in the Pittsburgh market.  All low capacity sites outside the Pittsburgh Metro area are GMO.

 

Robert

[Josh]

Well that is kinda funny because if they ever wish to compete with Verizon & At&t, they will need the benefits of 800Mhz CDMA and LTE on the towers that are more rural... other than capacity and possibly building penetration (which I do not find as much of a problem with in the downtown and busy areas) the use of the 800Mhz spectrum will benefit the more rural areas better than the areas where there are more towers.  Plus, the areas that are higher capacity are currently covered by the WiMax network here, and I believe that means that they will probably overlay, or even expand coverage of the TDD-LTE in those areas... which will help them with the capacity side of the equation.  

 

Now that was just me venting, I do not need anyone telling me the reasoning behind sprint's decision to focus on the most profitable areas first... but they will never get anyone to switch if they do not improve everywhere.  If they were to have a competitive service in the 'outskirt' areas where I live, they might not be low capacity sites anymore!

 

My final thought for this thread is that if sprint is not careful, T-Mobile will use their newly acquired spectrum in the 700Mhz band to convert all their EDGE sites to LTE with both capacity and coverage (much like sprint, they will have capacity in AWS and coverage with 700Mhz).  If they get everything put together before sprint, they could take away sprints current advantage of having the better coverage of the 2! 

[Flompholph]

I connect to 1x800 in most of Pittsburgh. There are little holes every where but it is mostly there even in rural places. They just need 800 lte data cards.

[jwang]

Sprint is paying the price of not upgrading their network from 2005. They are behind the game for so many years then from 2012 they decided to catch up.

 

After softbank took over, they are doing pretty good job in roll-out speed. B41 roll out was delayed due to the bidding drama with Dish network. And 800 LTE roll out is picking up the speed from Feb.

 

Sprint needs to focus on their top markets in order to turn around the customer loss trend in 2014! And that's what they are doing now. When 800 LTE can be widely found this summer,, they can start touting the network from then.

 

Tmobile is not in the game. Their LTE roll out now is behind Sprint. How many people remembered that before Softbank took over last summer, Tmobile was 100 market ahead of Sprint in LTE. And we has not heard Tmobile rolled out to new market for 2 months. They are burning their cash in those ETF drama and their parent company doesn't want to commit another 15Billion for network. Without the capital, how can Tmobile increase their coverage. They said this year they will spend 4Billion but well Spring is spending 8Billion so Tmobile won't be able to get near to Sprint on coverage after 2014. The 700mhz radio may show up in Tmobile store in another 24 months.

 

I have verizon phone also. Well it has better coverage most of the time as I travel many places often. But I noticed from 12 months ago verizon has its data speed slow down over the time. And this year I can tell you every day I have 2 or 3 times can't refresh my browser because verizon LTE doesn't transfer the data even the signal is not too bad. And I never used over my data cap so it is not throttled. Verizon is really overrated after their network became slow and congested through 2013.