Sprint TD-LTE 2500/2600mhz Discussion

[IamMrFamous07]

Do we have any information about the first round of markets for clearwire's TD LTE? I mean at this point it doesn't matter since we don't have Triband phones but I'm still curious since the only news about clearwire are the acquisitions.

 

 

Also what are the expected speeds for clearwire's LTE.

[oversight]

Do we have any information about the first round of markets for clearwire's TD LTE? I mean at this point it doesn't matter since we don't have Triband phones but I'm still curious since the only news about clearwire are the acquisitions.

 

 

Also what are the expected speeds for clearwire's LTE.

 

Probably not hear much of anything else until the Clearwire/Softbank purchases are complete.  This is what they announced mid last year.  http://corporate.clearwire.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=667820

[IamMrFamous07]

Probably not hear much of anything else until the Clearwire/Softbank purchases are complete. This is what they announced mid last year. http://corporate.clearwire.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=667820

 

Cool I read more info about their LTE network on their website and it looks like they planned to release a LTE advance network that can get about 100mbps down. I wonder sprint/SoftBank plans to same once they acquire clearwire.

 

Do I necessarily need to have at 100mbps down, absolutely not but for bragging rights it would be nice if sprint/SoftBank does plan to have those kind of speeds on that network

[bucdenny]

Cool I read more info about their LTE network on their website and it looks like they planned to release a LTE advance network that can get about 100mbps down. I wonder sprint/SoftBank plans to same once they acquire clearwire.

 

Do I necessarily need to have at 100mbps down, absolutely not but for bragging rights it would be nice if sprint/SoftBank does plan to have those kind of speeds on that network

 

Having that speed will change their marketing strategies. How does it sound when everyone says "the fastest LTE Network in America and its unlimited"

 

Right now Sprint is known as unlimited and unusable.  

[IamMrFamous07]

Having that speed will change their marketing strategies. How does it sound when everyone says "the fastest LTE Network in America and its unlimited"

 

Right now Sprint is known as unlimited and unusable.

I'm sure that's what sprint/SoftBank is aiming for with the clearwire spectrum.

[jroepcke51]

I just can't wait for clearwire on every tower in cities. It would be sick. I don't care for speeds but slowing down. I like the same user experience every time versus what it is like know on 3G. Never know if it is going to work.

[IamMrFamous07]

I just can't wait for clearwire on every tower in cities. It would be sick. I don't care for speeds but slowing down. I like the same user experience every time versus what it is like know on 3G. Never know if it is going to work.

 

Every tower in the city? O_o I didn't know that. I seriously cannot wait once LTE is 100% delpoyed in every market on all 3 bands. Loving how sprint is rebuilding its network for the future.

[Paynefanbro]

Every tower in the city? O_o I didn't know that. I seriously cannot wait once LTE is 100% delpoyed in every market on all 3 bands. Loving how sprint is rebuilding its network for the future.

I think Son's plan was to deploy Clear LTE on nearly every PCS site in metro areas such as NYC, Chicago, and such. I know in NYC site spacing is way more dense than what is actually needed for PCS. If every site in NYC were to get Clear LTE, NYC could become "Sprint" city rather than a Verizon city.

[bucdenny]

I think Son's plan was to deploy Clear LTE on nearly every PCS site in metro areas such as NYC, Chicago, and such. I know in NYC site spacing is way more dense than what is actually needed for PCS. If every site in NYC were to get Clear LTE, NYC could become "Sprint" city rather than a Verizon city.

 

We hope that is the case throughout all big cities.  It will be night and day for Sprint, people will realize shit I am paying more than Sprint with slower speeds with CAP!  This is why it is important for Sprint to keep unlimited data.

[z250kid]

I think Son's plan was to deploy Clear LTE on nearly every PCS site in metro areas such as NYC, Chicago, and such. I know in NYC site spacing is way more dense than what is actually needed for PCS. If every site in NYC were to get Clear LTE, NYC could become "Sprint" city rather than a Verizon city.

I okay with that as long as they put more towers in rural areas and make it all 800.  3g is so spotty in my area/state Making 800 will give a little more.  But Att is a tower hooker in my area.  My girl has them and not once have I seen her phone loose service except a town that doesn't allow towers stupid old people.  Im going to try to make a map of one town and show you guys this is gonna pita I think

[WiWavelength]

Having that speed will change their marketing strategies. How does it sound when everyone says "the fastest LTE Network in America and its unlimited"

 

Even with Clearwire TD-LTE, the claim to the fastest LTE network will be questionable.  VZW and T-Mobile likely will both have some markets with 20 MHz FDD deployments.  And from a peak speed standpoint, 20 MHz FDD is definitely faster than 20 MHz TDD.  In fact, 20 MHz TDD is really more comparable to 10 MHz FDD, which VZW, AT&T, and T-Mobile already have in many/most/all markets.  So, Sprint still will not win the peak speed contests, but it may win the average speed contests -- or, at least, be far more competitive.

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

 

 

 

Having that speed will change their marketing strategies. How does it sound when everyone says "the fastest LTE Network in America and its unlimited"

 

 

Even with Clearwire TD-LTE, the claim to the fastest LTE network will be questionable. VZW and T-Mobile likely will both have some markets with 20 MHz FDD deployments. And from a peak speed standpoint, 20 MHz FDD is definitely faster than 20 MHz TDD. In fact, 20 MHz TDD is really more comparable to 10 MHz FDD, which VZW, AT&T, and T-Mobile already have in many/most/all markets. So, Sprint still will not win the peak speed contests, but it may win the average speed contests -- or, at least, be far more competitive.

 

AJ

I agree with your comment, but want to add the distinction that 20MHz TDD-LTE peak speeds were testing higher than the theoretical limits of a 10MHz FDD carrier in Clearwire FIT testing. Sometimes hitting the high 90's. But we do not know the upload ratio they were using in that testing.

 

Clearwire was consistently getting 60Mbps speeds with good signals in their testing in places where the backhaul was installed to support that throughput. I do agree that it's likely that Clearwire TD-LTE with 20MHz channels will likely settle in around 10MHz FDD performance characteristics. However, it will not be subjected to the same fade from burdens as they have much more ability to add additional carriers for capacity than most FDD carriers. So in this regard, Clearwire should smoke the FDD 10MHz carriers. Verizon wishes their 10MHz of LTE 750 was still pushing 30-50Mbps.

 

Now 20MHz FDD on the other hand...well, ouch.

 

Robert from Note 2 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[WiWavelength]

I agree with your comment, but want to add the distinction that 20MHz TDD-LTE peak speeds were testing higher than the theoretical limits of a 10MHz FDD carrier in Clearwire FIT testing. Sometimes hitting the high 90's. But we do not know the upload ratio they were using in that testing.

 

Actually, I do know the TD-LTE downlink:uplink ratio that Clearwire is, at the very least, currently using.

 

About a week ago, 4GHoward sent me a very recent Clearwire FCC filing from the 600 MHz band plan docket.  Not surprisingly, Clearwire advocates a TDD band plan and, in the course of doing so, reveals that it is utilizing the 3:2 downlink:uplink ratio, which it claims to offer the best balance of performance factors.  I did not get a chance to thank 4GHoward, so consider this some publicly expressed appreciation.

 

Now, to cut to the chase, the 90-99 Mbps peak figure seems about right, maybe a bit inflated.  Here is the back of the napkin math.  

 

A 3:2 ratio can be converted to a 60:40 proportion.  If we want to compare to FDD, let us just hypothetically convert the TDD proportion from time to spectrum.  In other words, of the 20 MHz bandwidth, it is as if 12 MHz is effectively used for downlink, 8 MHz for uplink.  A little bit of each is lost due to the guard periods, but we can disregard those right now for the sake of simplicity.

 

Thus, compared to 10 MHz FDD, 20 MHz TDD has a 20 percent advantage on the downlink, a 20 percent disadvantage on the uplink.  If 10 MHz FDD can peak at 75 Mbps on the downlink, then a 20 percent increase puts the 20 MHz TDD peak right at 90 Mbps.

 

AJ

[bucdenny]

Even with Clearwire TD-LTE, the claim to the fastest LTE network will be questionable.  VZW and T-Mobile likely will both have some markets with 20 MHz FDD deployments.  And from a peak speed standpoint, 20 MHz FDD is definitely faster than 20 MHz TDD.  In fact, 20 MHz TDD is really more comparable to 10 MHz FDD, which VZW, AT&T, and T-Mobile already have in many/most/all markets.  So, Sprint still will not win the peak speed contests, but it may win the average speed contests -- or, at least, be far more competitive.

 

AJ

 

What was the reason for Clearwire to deply TDD? was it because China/Japan?  If Clearwire were deploying 20 Mhz FDD would they be looking at speeds above 100Mbps?

[WiWavelength]

What was the reason for Clearwire to deply TDD? was it because China/Japan?  If Clearwire were deploying 20 Mhz FDD would they be looking at speeds above 100Mbps?

 

I have made several previous posts on this subject.

 

In a nutshell, it has nothing to do with Asia.  That is coincidence.  BRS/EBS 2600 MHz band plan is not configured well for FDD operation.  Plus, TDD makes far more sense for data centric use.

 

AJ

[bucdenny]

Thank you for quick simple answer. 

[IamMrFamous07]

I hope this years iPhone will be Triband LTE but I doubt it

[utiz4321]

I hope this years iPhone will be Triband LTE but I doubt it

I second that but if not a s4 or htc one tri-ban phone would work as well!

[IamMrFamous07]

I second that but if not a s4 or htc one tri-ban phone would work as well!

 

Do you think Samsung and HTC will release Triband editions or maybe they'll just sell through their current supply and then the newer batches will be Triband lol

[ericdabbs]

Do you think Samsung and HTC will release Triband editions or maybe they'll just sell through their current supply and then the newer batches will be Triband lol

 

I don't think HTC will release a triband edition of the HTC One.  We do know that there is a new model of the Galaxy S4 that Samsung has just announced that supports the Qualcomm S800 chip and can support LTE Advanced.  Perhaps this new Galaxy S4 may hit Sprint later on this year with tri-band capabilities.  We will only know for sure if this new Galaxy S4 model will come to Sprint when it hits the FCC with the LTE support for all 3 bands and if it has this new model number.  The current Sprint Galaxy S4 and this new Galaxy S4 Advanced will have different model numbers so it should be easily identified.

[IamMrFamous07]

I don't think HTC will release a triband edition of the HTC One. We do know that there is a new model of the Galaxy S4 that Samsung has just announced that supports the Qualcomm S800 chip and can support LTE Advanced. Perhaps this new Galaxy S4 may hit Sprint later on this year with tri-band capabilities. We will only know for sure if this new Galaxy S4 model will come to Sprint when it hits the FCC with the LTE support for all 3 bands and if it has this new model number. The current Sprint Galaxy S4 and this new Galaxy S4 Advanced will have different model numbers so it should be easily identified.

Right. I think the GS4 advance will be sent to sprint.

 

Just can't wait until we get things moving

[Nickel]

Right. I think the GS4 advance will be sent to sprint.

 

Just can't wait until we get things moving

I kind of doubt that, i think the phone that sprint was talking about from samsung that was Tri-band will end up being the Note III.

 

Of course, it is samsung so you know they're not shy about releasing more devices.

[IamMrFamous07]

I kind of doubt that, i think the phone that sprint was talking about from samsung that was Tri-band will end up being the Note III.

 

Of course, it is samsung so you know they're not shy about releasing more devices.

I'm sure the note 3 will be the first Triband device but Samsung did announce they are releasing a galaxy s4 LTE advance edition. And sprint plans to use clearwire's spectrum for LTE advanced and also tmobile is supposedly launching LTE advance either end of this year or early next year

[ericdabbs]

I wasn't really sure where to ask this, but I suppose this is as good as any, as it pertains to TD-LTE. What is the time frame of this equipment hitting Sprint's towers? I know their aren't tri-band phones just yet. Is this part of Network Vision 3.0? Because I know Clearwire supposedly has thousands of sites ready but hasn't lit them up, from what I have read around here. Now that SoftBank is most likely for sure buying Sprint (pending FCC approval, which I have no doubt they will get) will they ramp up TD-LTE deployment?

 

I think you have some of your facts wrong.  Currently Sprint is in charge of the 800 and 1900 MHz LTE build out and Clearwire is in charge of the 2500 MHz LTE build out.  The merger of Sprint and Softbank does not impact the TD-LTE deployment by itself. Softbank/Sprint has not officially bought Clearwire yet so they don't have control of Clearwire operations of where Clearwire has been deploying its TD-LTE equipment.  My guess is that the 2,000 or so TD-LTE sites that Clearwire has upgraded thus far are an overlay of its Wimax network. 

 

A vote for Clearwire is scheduled for July 8th and right now Sprint has the higher bid over Dish.  If the vote is in favor of Sprint then Clearwire will be officially a part of Sprint.  At that point Sprint will have complete control over Clearwire's strategies.  But as of now they both still operate independent of each other until the takeover of Clearwire is official. 

 

My guess is that even after the Sprint/Clearwire merger is closed, it will take a quarter or 2 of coordination between Clearwire and Sprint now with Softbank funding to come up with a strategy on the TD-LTE deployment over Sprint's footprint nationwide.  I don't expect TD-LTE to be deployed on all 38,000 Sprint towers but I do expect Softbank/Sprint will want to expand the TD-LTE footprint besides the current Wimax footprint especially to large markets that did not get Wimax so it provides 2500 MHz LTE capacity relief in those metros.  I know that would have been Sprint's aspirations for Wimax to expand to more major markets had Clearwire not run out of money in 2011.

[dcmike]

I hope this years iPhone will be Triband LTE but I doubt it

Agreed. Triband compatibility will likely be reserved as a selling point for a future model (this is my opinion based on historical Apple marketing strategy).