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I will take that bet and raise you an additional six months. See my post in the NYC thread:

 

http://s4gru.com/ind...091#entry119091

 

Furthermore, any MetroPCS CDMA1X carrier channel relocation and PRL reconfiguration has to be coordinated with all MetroPCS roaming partners.

 

AJ

 

Your link didn't work so I quoted your post.. :P

 

What do I think? Wishful thinking. NYC will not see 10 MHz FDD LTE from T-Mobile anytime this year, potentially not anytime next year either.

 

Here are the real facts. T-Mobile holds 30 MHz of AWS spectrum in NYC, while MetroPCS holds 20 MHz. T-Mobile is currently running DC-HSPA+ (20 MHz) and deploying one 5 MHz FDD LTE carrier. That occupies T-Mobile's 30 MHz AWS bandwidth. MetroPCS, meanwhile, is running several CDMA1X carriers (10 MHz) and one 5 MHz FDD LTE carrier. That takes care of MetroPCS's AWS bandwidth.

 

In order to combine T-Mobile and MetroPCS AWS spectrum to deploy 10 MHz FDD LTE, MetroPCS will have to reprogram all devices to use T-Mobile LTE instead of MetroPCS LTE, shut down its own LTE in the AWS C block, push out new PRLs to all subs, and relocate its CDMA1X carriers from the AWS D block to the C block. Only then can T-Mobile extend its bandwidth from 5 MHz FDD LTE to 10 MHz FDD LTE.

 

In other words, it is a mess. Not gonna happen quickly...

 

AJ

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I will take that bet and raise you an additional six months. See my post in the NYC thread:

 

http://s4gru.com/ind...091#entry119091

 

Furthermore, any MetroPCS CDMA1X carrier channel relocation and PRL reconfiguration has to be coordinated with all MetroPCS roaming partners.

 

AJ

 

To my knowledge, both CricKet and MetroPCS are customer-only networks; no one actually roams ONTO either. Show me a PRL other than MetroPCS's that includes a MetroPCS SID and I'll concede that, but even then MetroPCS can just use the same SID in PCS as they use in AWS, since no CDMA phone exists with AWS and not PCS. And MetroPCS + CricKet are the only providers, to my knowledge, who use CDMA in AWS anyway. But I may be a bit more wrong with that statement.

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But they are saving money. The price of the phone is less then what you would pay full price. Just using iPhone as an example, it's 100+(20X24)=$580 compared to $650. That's a $70 savings. And they can always sell or trade up if they want to and still pay less monthly.

 

I did find it strange given that the 16 GB iPhone retail price is $650 but yet they were only charging $100 + $20/mo for 24 months = $580 which indeed is a $70 savings. Its got to be a typo for the iPhone since the rest of the other phones make sense like the Galaxy S3 retails at $550 and Tmobile charges $70 + $20 for 24 months = $550.

 

There is no way some finance guy at Tmobile USA corporate did not pick up on the $70 discrepancy. Its got to either be a promotion to get iPhone users from other carriers to switch to Tmobile and are willing to eat the cost temporarily OR some how Tmobile was able to get Apple to sell the iPhone to Tmobile wholesale for $580 (which I highly doubt).

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I did find it strange given that the 16 GB iPhone retail price is $650 but yet they were only charging $100 + $20/mo for 24 months = $580 which indeed is a $70 savings. Its got to be a typo for the iPhone since the rest of the other phones make sense like the Galaxy S3 retails at $550 and Tmobile charges $70 + $20 for 24 months = $550.

 

There is no way some finance guy at Tmobile USA corporate did not pick up on the $70 discrepancy. Its got to either be a promotion to get iPhone users from other carriers to switch to Tmobile and are willing to eat the cost temporarily OR some how Tmobile was able to get Apple to sell the iPhone to Tmobile wholesale for $580 (which I highly doubt).

 

Actually, I'll bet Apple's wholesale to TMo for the iPhone is right around $580. Samsung's wholesale for the S III, however, is probably a bit lower than $550.

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Actually, I'll bet Apple's wholesale to TMo for the iPhone is right around $580. Samsung's wholesale for the S III, however, is probably a bit lower than $550.

 

Now that I think about it, you're probably right in that $580 is probably the Apple iPhone wholesale figure Tmobile buys the phone for. If that is true, this just means that Tmobile is willing to forgo any profit on the iPhone just to entice new iPhone customers to switch to Tmobile service. Only time will tell but it seems like a good strategy if it works out especially if there are fanatic iPhone users who are willing to upgrade their iPhone every year if all it takes is to buy the phone outright. Its about time to spread the iPhone data usage disease amongst all the 4 major carriers and I hope a bunch of AT&T and Verizon iPhone customers jump to Tmobile.

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Now that I think about it, you're probably right in that $580 is probably the Apple iPhone wholesale figure Tmobile buys the phone for. If that is true, this just means that Tmobile is willing to forgo any profit on the iPhone just to entice new iPhone customers to switch to Tmobile service. Only time will tell but it seems like a good strategy if it works out especially if there are fanatic iPhone users who are willing to upgrade their iPhone every year if all it takes is to buy the phone outright. Its about time to spread the iPhone data usage disease amongst all the 4 major carriers and I hope a bunch of AT&T and Verizon iPhone customers jump to Tmobile.

 

The more I read about T-Mobile, it seems like a good value but then I take a look at their coverage map and I'm surrounded by EDGE outside of my immediate area. Sucks. The main thing I use my data plan for is streaming music on the interstate.

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Now that I think about it, you're probably right in that $580 is probably the Apple iPhone wholesale figure Tmobile buys the phone for. If that is true, this just means that Tmobile is willing to forgo any profit on the iPhone just to entice new iPhone customers to switch to Tmobile service. Only time will tell but it seems like a good strategy if it works out especially if there are fanatic iPhone users who are willing to upgrade their iPhone every year if all it takes is to buy the phone outright. Its about time to spread the iPhone data usage disease amongst all the 4 major carriers and I hope a bunch of AT&T and Verizon iPhone customers jump to Tmobile.

 

I don't think the "data usage plague" is as bad as folks think, at least with regard to the iPhone specifically. Legere said that GS III users on average pull down 3GB per month on their network. With most iPhone users split between AT&T and Verizon, you aren't seeing that kind of average usage there. There's a reason T-Mobile was comfortable with pricing unlimited on-phone data the same as 4.5GB of use-anywhere data, per-line.

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To my knowledge, both CricKet and MetroPCS are customer-only networks; no one actually roams ONTO either. Show me a PRL other than MetroPCS's that includes a MetroPCS SID and I'll concede that, but even then MetroPCS can just use the same SID in PCS as they use in AWS, since no CDMA phone exists with AWS and not PCS. And MetroPCS + CricKet are the only providers, to my knowledge, who use CDMA in AWS anyway. But I may be a bit more wrong with that statement.

 

Yes, you are mistaken on several of the above statements.

 

First, Sprint roams on both Cricket and MetroPCS; both have numerous SIDs included in Sprint PRLs.

 

Second, keeping the same SID does not solve the problem. If the CDMA1X carrier channel assignments change -- even within AWS or PCS, let alone an AWS to PCS shift -- the ACQ index must be updated to list those new carrier channel assignments. In other words, that requires new PRLs all around.

 

To provide a bit of additional background, T-Mobile currently holds the AWS E block 10 MHz and F block 20 MHz licenses in NYC. The F block is running DC-HSPA+, and the E block is being refarmed to LTE 5 MHz FDD. MetroPCS, on the other hand, holds the AWS C block 10 MHz and D block 10 MHz licenses, and MetroPCS is running its CDMA1X carrier channels in the D block.

 

So, the CDMA1X carrier channel assignments interrupt T-Mobile-MetroPCS' potential LTE spectrum contiguity. Those CDMA1X carriers will have to be relocated before T-Mobile-MetroPCS can pursue LTE 10 MHz FDD in the adjacent D block 10 MHz and E block 10 MHz licenses. But, as I have described, that is easier said than done. I do not expect T-Mobile-MetroPCS to have LTE 10 MHz FDD in NYC before 2014.

 

AJ

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Yes, you are mistaken on several of the above statements.

 

First, Sprint roams on both Cricket and MetroPCS; both have numerous SIDs included in Sprint PRLs.

 

Second, keeping the same SID does not solve the problem. If the CDMA1X carrier channel assignments change -- even within AWS or PCS, let alone an AWS to PCS shift -- the ACQ index must be updated to list those new carrier channel assignments.

 

To provide a bit of additional background, T-Mobile currently holds the AWS E block 10 MHz and F block 20 MHz licenses in NYC. The F block is running DC-HSPA+, and the E block is being refarmed to LTE 5 MHz FDD. MetroPCS, on the other hand, holds the AWS C block 10 MHz and D block 10 MHz licenses, and MetroPCS is running its CDMA1X carrier channels in the D block.

 

So, the CDMA1X carrier channel assignments interrupt T-Mobile-MetroPCS' potential LTE spectrum contiguity. Those CDMA1X carriers will have to be relocated before T-Mobile-MetroPCS can pursue LTE 10 MHz FDD in the adjacent D block 10 MHz and E block 10 MHz licenses. But, as I have described, that is easier said than done. I do not expect T-Mobile-MetroPCS to have LTE 10 MHz FDD in NYC before 2014.

 

AJ

 

Thanks for the corrections. I don't guarantee my next post will be consistent with "knowing what I'm talking about" either, but it's nice to have someone who can give correct information.

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But they are saving money. The price of the phone is less then what you would pay full price. Just using iPhone as an example, it's 100+(20X24)=$580 compared to $650. That's a $70 savings. And they can always sell or trade up if they want to and still pay less monthly.

 

Ok, I consed that point, but I still don't see a huge savings big picture.

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Ok, I consed that point, but I still don't see a huge savings big picture.

me neither. 500 MB of data isn't enough, so you're not going to be on the 50$ plan very long on a smartphone for any sort of data user except a 60 year old grandma. I've managed to use more than a gig on a pitiful Sprint Pre-NV 3G swiss cheese network this month alone.

 

So assume the next tier of plan (2GB + 500MB) for $60, plus $20 a month for the phone... $80 a month.

 

Or you can get Sprint 450 min, any mobile anytime, 7p n/w min (unlimited) and unlimited data. $80 a month.

 

Plus you get to enjoy the device subsidy, which isn't really going to break the bank anyway... You can get free devices on both networks and you can get premium devices...

 

 

The only difference between the plans basically is T-Mo shows you how much of your bill is because of the device subsidy. You still basically have the ETF of the X dollars remaining on the cost of the device if you want to leave before the two year pay-off is over. It's not really different than anyone other than they're showing you just how much you're paying for the device. I actually like that they're showing customers how expensive these phones are, because many customers just don't treat it like a 5-7 HUNDRED dollar purchase. They treat it like it's disposable.... Until they find a way to break it.

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me neither. 500 MB of data isn't enough, so you're not going to be on the 50$ plan very long on a smartphone for any sort of data user except a 60 year old grandma.

 

Oh, give me a break. I am not evenly remote comparable to a "60 year old grandma" and was an early adopter of wireless data about a dozen years ago when many of you were still clinging to mommy's skirt. But I have used 134 MBs of EV-DO and 91 MBs of LTE so far this month because 1) I wisely offload to Wi-Fi, 2) I also have laptops and tablets for data access, and 3) most importantly, I have no need for wireless data to be my pacifier every waking moment.

 

Some of you guys need to stop staring at your little screen or listening to your headphones for a moment. Use your mind, and get a life. Sheesh...

 

AJ

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point is - that's more than half of your meager data allowance on T-mo for that $50 plan. You yourself even admit to trying to offload to WiFi and using other devices (like notebooks and tablets) yet you've still used most of the data allotment on the base plan on T-mo.

 

Thanks for making the point even easier to make.

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AJ, it would be glorious if we could get a off-load happy option on Sprint. Maybe a cheaper BYOD option too!

 

So far, Overland Park hasn't shown any inclination to move in that direction. As far as the rest of it, I agree 100%. I only wish there were more hotspots open on the paths I travel. If all else fails, McDonald's usually has good hot spot access that may not always be fast but it works.

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point is - that's more than half of your meager data allowance on T-mo for that $50 plan. You yourself even admit to trying to offload to WiFi and using other devices (like notebooks and tablets) yet you've still used most of the data allotment on the base plan on T-mo.

 

Thanks for making the point even easier to make.

 

No, I did not make your point "even easier to make." Your math is way off.

 

My billing cycle ends in four days, and I have used 225 MBs of total data this month. That is not "most" of 500 MBs. "Most" means a majority, but I have used less than half of 500 MBs.

 

AJ

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I'm looking at my usage now, and for the month, I've used 550mb of 3G data, and 1.2GB of LTE data, with 4 days to go in my cycle. The LTE data is coming from work, since there is LTE available there, and the 3G is out in the field during my commute. I use WIFI whenever I can, so to me, that's normal usage.

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I know for many people their LTE usage will be higher anyway because in the same X amount of time queueing in line or whatever you'll be able to load more webpages. Netflix and others will stream higher quality video that in many cases would just go unwatched anyway because it won't load. iTunes Match or streaming music services will either be a viable option and used, or even stream higher quality.

 

The list of examples goes on and on. Data usage will continue to rise as pipes get fatter and streaming services are more widely utilized.

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Oh, give me a break. I am not evenly remote comparable to a "60 year old grandma" and was an early adopter of wireless data about a dozen years ago when many of you were still clinging to mommy's skirt. But I have used 134 MBs of EV-DO and 91 MBs of LTE so far this month because 1) I wisely offload to Wi-Fi, 2) I also have laptops and tablets for data access, and 3) most importantly, I have no need for wireless data to be my pacifier every waking moment.

 

Some of you guys need to stop staring at your little screen or listening to your headphones for a moment. Use your mind, and get a life. Sheesh...

 

AJ

 

You have no right to judge people's data usage and insult them for it.

 

Sure, you are the guru of this site and you get to say whatever you want but I'm just saying what everyone else is thinking but will not dare to say.

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you're right, addition error on my part. That's still about half regardless.

 

My point is this: I would welcome a 500 MB base data allotment on Sprint. I am a very frequent, productive wireless data user, but that does not mean that I am a heavy user. And heavy users should pay for what they use.

 

I am a long time Sprint sub, much longer than most anyone else here. History, locality, sentiment, and inertia keep me in the fold. But if T-Mobile is going to become the "uncarrier" while Sprint stays the "abused carrier" by keeping unlimited data while speeds slow to a crawl again due to overuse, then I will likely have to leave in the next few years.

 

AJ

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You have no right to judge people's data usage and insult them for it.

 

Hey, if the shoe fits, wear it...

 

Absolutely, I have the right to judge, as that is merely a statement of my opinion. And I did not insult anyone.

 

Wireless data is a shared resource. If, for example, you take your dog to park, let it crap all over the lawn, and the authorities do nothing to stop you, do not be surprised when I confront you about your abuse of a shared resource.

 

AJ

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Hey, if the shoe fits, wear it...

 

Absolutely, I have the right to judge, as that is merely a statement of my opinion. And I did not insult anyone.

 

Wireless data is a shared resource. If, for example, you take your dog to park, let it crap all over the lawn, and the authorities do nothing to stop you, do not be surprised when I confront you about your abuse of a shared resource.

 

AJ

 

 

How is using data the same as a dog crapping in the park? Using over 500Mb's a month is not excessive or all that hard. My wife, who hardly uses her phone for anything other then Facebook, a handful of website, email and every once and a while directions averages about 1Gb per month. She uses Wifi when available. I can't say she is all that different than the normal user these days.

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My point is this: I would welcome a 500 MB base data allotment on Sprint. I am a very frequent, productive wireless data user, but that does not mean that I am a heavy user. And heavy users should pay for what they use.

 

I am a long time Sprint sub, much longer than most anyone else here. History, locality, sentiment, and inertia keep me in the fold. But if T-Mobile is going to become the "uncarrier" while Sprint stays the "abused carrier" by keeping unlimited data while speeds slow to a crawl again due to overuse, then I will likely have to leave in the next few years.

 

AJ

Respectfully, AJ, there will be no where to go...as I have opined in other threads Sprint will not be able to continue unlimited data speeds plans in the future....LTE speeds will enable overuse for sure on all the big 4 carriers..can't you see everyone wanting to Skype on their smartphones or watch videos? This discussion is much to do about nothing, IMHO
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How is using data the same as a dog crapping in the park?

 

Using data is not the same as a dog crapping the park, but abusing data is similar, as both actions negatively affect others who share that resource.

 

Now, if the dog crapping analogy does not work for you, try this one. You bring your large pack of dogs to the dog park and let them run wild to the detriment of the other dogs and owners trying to use the dog park. That is very similar to overuse of "unlimited" data.

 

Using over 500Mb's a month is not excessive or all that hard.

 

You are making an unwarranted assumption. Did I ever say that over 500 MB was "excessive" use? No, I said that I would appreciate a 500 MB base tier, and those who use above and beyond 500 MB should pay for their additional usage.

 

AJ

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Using data is not the same as a dog crapping the park, but abusing data is similar, as both actions negatively affect others who share that resource.

 

Now, if the dog crapping analogy does not work for you, try this one. You bring your large pack of dogs to the dog park and let them run wild to the detriment of the other dogs and owners trying to use the dog park. That is very similar to overuse of "unlimited" data.

 

 

 

You are making an unwarranted assumption. Did I ever say that over 500 MB was "excessive" use? No, I said that I would appreciate a 500 MB base tier, and those who use above and beyond 500 MB should pay for their additional usage.

 

AJ

 

AJ,

 

I completely understand where you are coming from, wireless spectrum, unlike fiber or other wired networks we use, is a physically limited resource. I ask you though, is Sprint selling it to their customers as such when they have ads like this?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frKZyFYxQCY

 

I think it is understandable that people are frustrated when they've been sold a certain idea ("a billion roaming photo journalists uploading the human experience"). Obviously, they were not sold the dog crapping in the park paradigm, accurate as it might be.

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