T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[Moropo]

If RSRP to RSRP, then that is an apples to apples comparison. Additionally, both Sprint and T-Mobile have 5 MHz FDD LTE bandwidth in Miami. But not really anything about T-Mobile's LTE deployment is inherently superior at lower signal levels. So, you are likely just encountering greater loading on Sprint LTE, since it has a one year lead on T-Mobile in that regard.

 

AJ

Ok makes sense.

 

About T-Mobile in Miami, I guess I should wait till you finish the Miami section on the article you wrote, but will they go 10x10 MHz in the near future?

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[ericdabbs]

You are a premier sponsor with over 1,000 posts and you believe what you just said? You know about Sensorly, in all its glory and you just said T-Mobile has jumped into 3rd place. Sprint has LTE in 95% of the markets T-Mobile does. And T-Mobile has LTE in about 50% of the areas Sprint does.

 

Look I tell like it is.  It doesn't matter that I am a Premier Sponsor or not.  You can't just base LTE coverage off of Sensorly as a representation for each carrier since it is not a required app to be run at all times. Sensorly is completely voluntarily and relies on the community of those customers to add to those maps. Therefore it can't be used as the Holy Grail.  The thing is Tmobile, Verizon and AT&T customers don't need to chart in Sensorly since the HSPA+ and Verizon EVDO speeds aren't crap while Sprint customers on the other hand rely on Sensorly to find new Network Vision upgraded towers in hopes of better speeds 3G speeds and have to hunt for LTE since it is so spotty.

 

While Sprint does have a lot of the same markets covered in LTE as Tmobile it does fall short in a several major markets I can think of off the bat that have zero to very little LTE (Markets that have a few LTE sites that can not come close to covering the metro area of the city): Phoenix, Tucson, Honolulu, Salt Lake City, Denver, Las Vegas, Cleveland, Columbus, Reno, Bakersfield, Fresno, Albuquerque, Buffalo, Albany, Rochester, Newark, Syracuse, Richmond, etc.  I disagree that Tmobile falls short in 50% of the major markets that Sprint has.

 

I know Sprint is working hard on Network Vision but in terms of LTE coverage it is still lacking in a lot of the major metros as mentioned in some of the markets above.  As of now I have to give Tmobile the leg up in being in number 3 in terms number of major metros covered. They really are stepping up the LTE game and while you can say Tmobile "cheated" because they have fiber backhaul in place but there was still a ton of work that needed to be done (permitting, installing antennas, any base station installation, coordination of crews to install this stuff) is still challenging and should not be dismissed.  Tmobile has executed well in their Network Vision "Challenger" plan in just a short time.

[S4GRU]

Look I tell like it is. It doesn't matter that I am a Premier Sponsor or not. You can't just base LTE coverage off of Sensorly as a representation for each carrier since it is not a required app to be run at all times. Sensorly is completely voluntarily and relies on the community of those customers to add to those maps. Therefore it can't be used as the Holy Grail. The thing is Tmobile, Verizon and AT&T customers don't need to chart in Sensorly since the HSPA+ and Verizon EVDO speeds aren't crap while Sprint customers on the other hand rely on Sensorly to find new Network Vision upgraded towers in hopes of better speeds 3G speeds and have to hunt for LTE since it is so spotty.

 

While Sprint does have a lot of the same markets covered in LTE as Tmobile it does fall short in a several major markets I can think of off the bat that have zero to very little LTE (Markets that have a few LTE sites that can not come close to covering the metro area of the city): Phoenix, Tucson, Honolulu, Salt Lake City, Denver, Las Vegas, Cleveland, Columbus, Reno, Bakersfield, Fresno, Albuquerque, Buffalo, Albany, Rochester, Newark, Syracuse, Richmond, etc. I disagree that Tmobile falls short in 50% of the major markets that Sprint has.

 

I know Sprint is working hard on Network Vision but in terms of LTE coverage it is still lacking in a lot of the major metros as mentioned in some of the markets above. As of now I have to give Tmobile the leg up in being in number 3 in terms number of major metros covered. They really are stepping up the LTE game and while you can say Tmobile "cheated" because they have fiber backhaul in place but there was still a ton of work that needed to be done (permitting, installing antennas, any base station installation, coordination of crews to install this stuff) is still challenging and should not be dismissed. Tmobile has executed well in their Network Vision "Challenger" plan in just a short time.

Eric...you're full of crap. I find Tmo HSPA+ and Verizon EVDO/LTE sites that suck all the time. There are dozens of Tmo HSPA+ sites in New Mexico that run under 1Mbps. There are some even under 500kbps.

 

75% of Verizon EVDO sites are under 1Mbps, and 25% are under 500k. Verizon appears to be treating EVDO as second class since they started LTE deployment. And their LTE speeds are really stinking lately.

 

I do frequently use these other networks in a mix of urban, suburban and rural areas. I won't allow Tmo and VZW be falsely held up as some miracle network to try to make a point about Sprint. They are not perfect and far from it

 

Robert from Note 2 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[WiWavelength]

As of now I have to give Tmobile the leg up in being in number 3 in terms number of major metros covered.

 

"As of now" is the operative phrase.  Give it a year.  Then, Sprint will have its entire network overlaid with LTE 1900, not to mention, significant deployment of LTE 800 and TD-LTE 2600.  Meanwhile, T-Mobile will likely still be working on overlaying LTE 2100+1700 on its "archipelago" of HSPA+ coverage islands.  That level of coverage is going to look really good for Sprint, really bad for T-Mobile.  

 

And for a real world counterexample, I drive on almost a daily basis two major freeways among three metro areas along a 120 mile stretch.  Sprint is already 90 percent LTE on that entire stretch.  On the other hand, T-Mobile is nothing but GSM in between the metros, even after six years of W-CDMA deployment.

 

So, John Legere and Neville Ray can crack jokes about LTE in Manhattan, KS versus Manhattan, NY.  Well, both buffoons can kiss my ass, then go back to serving their poor, credit challenged urban dwellers.

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

"As of now" is the operative phrase. Give it a year. Then, Sprint will have its entire network overlaid with LTE 1900, not to mention, significant deployment of LTE 800 and TD-LTE 2600. Meanwhile, T-Mobile will likely still be working on overlaying LTE 2100+1700 on its "archipelago" of HSPA+ coverage islands. That level of coverage is going to look really good for Sprint, really bad for T-Mobile.

 

And for a real world counterexample, I drive on almost a daily basis two major freeways among three metro areas along a 120 mile stretch. Sprint is already 90 percent LTE on that entire stretch. On the other hand, T-Mobile is nothing but GSM in between the metros, even after six years of W-CDMA deployment.

 

So, John Legere and Neville Ray can crack jokes about LTE in Manhattan, KS versus Manhattan, NY. Well, both buffoons can kiss my ass, then go back to serving their poor, credit challenged urban dwellers.

 

AJ

You don't believe that TMUS will upgrade all their 54k sites with LTE by mid 2015?

[maximus1987/lou99]

Eric...you're full of crap. I find Tmo HSPA+ and Verizon EVDO/LTE sites that suck all the time. There are dozens of Tmo HSPA+ sites in New Mexico that run under 1Mbps. There are some even under 500kbps.

 

75% of Verizon EVDO sites are under 1Mbps, and 25% are under 500k. Verizon appears to be treating EVDO as second class since they started LTE deployment. And their LTE speeds are really stinking lately.

 

I do frequently use these other networks in a mix of urban, suburban and rural areas. I won't allow Tmo and VZW be falsely held up as some miracle network to try to make a point about Sprint. They are not perfect and far from it

 

Robert from Note 2 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Is that because of lack of backhaul that VZW EVDO and TMUS HSPA+ are slow?

[S4GRU]

Is that because of lack of backhaul that VZW EVDO and TMUS HSPA+ are slow?

In the case of Tmo, I believe in most cases it is backhaul. In the case of VZW, most of the time it is capacity as they are typically on backhaul upgraded sites. But these are just based on my personal observations.

 

Robert from Note 2 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[maximus1987/lou99]

In the case of Tmo, I believe in most cases it is backhaul. In the case of VZW, most of the time it is capacity as they are typically on backhaul upgraded sites. But these are just based on my personal observations.

 

Robert from Note 2 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

If a tower has fiber backhaul, is it scalable to something really high - like 1 Gbps - with no more truck rolls to the tower?

Is this true for "old" fiber to the tower as well as new installations?

[milan03]

Found this :

at 07:42 mark according to Ray Neville total number of T-Mobile cell sites is ~52,000, and they're modernizing 2/3 of that which is about 37,000.

The number includes macros and DAS. Doesn't include MetroPCS sites.

[WiWavelength]

You don't believe that TMUS will upgrade all their 54k sites with LTE by mid 2015?

 

I am not sure.  But that is not germane to what I said.  Sprint will have its urban and rural network upgraded to LTE by this time next year -- 2014.  If nothing else, that gives Sprint a year lead in which to rail on T-Mobile in public, and Sprint should do so.  Tit for tat.

 

AJ

[maximus1987/lou99]

Found this :

at 07:42 mark according to Ray Neville total number of T-Mobile cell sites is ~52,000, and they're modernizing 2/3 of that which is about 37,000.

The number includes macros and DAS. Doesn't include MetroPCS sites.

That plan was made before Softy bought Sprint. It has to change of they're gonna survive against Sprint's urban TD-LTE.

[maximus1987/lou99]

Ok makes sense.

 

About T-Mobile in Miami, I guess I should wait till you finish the Miami section on the article you wrote, but will they go 10x10 MHz in the near future?

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

No. They only have 20 MHz according to FCC.gov and they need to keep 10 MHz for HSPA+.

[Moropo]

No. They only have 20 MHz according to FCC.gov and they need to keep 10 MHz for HSPA+.

Hmm that sucks. Next month I was going to cancel my 5 lines at Sprint and go to T-Mobile but I will hold that decision until I read AJ's take at T-Mobile's Miami spectrum situation etc.

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[maximus1987/lou99]

Hmm that sucks. Next month I was going to cancel my 5 lines at Sprint and going to T-Mobile but I will hold that decision until I read AJ's take at T-Mobile's Miami spectrum situation etc.

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

You can view spectrum at FCC.gov.

When you get to spectrum dashboard, click on "browse by map" and select your county.

Then filter by: AWS-1 and "common names" "Tmobile" and "metropcs" cause metro's spectrum hasn't even merged into TMUS'. You can select multiple "common names" by using "ctrl".

FYI, I tried IE, Chrome, Firefox and list controls in spectrum dashboard don't work correctly except in Firefox.

 

Also, the maps sometimes don't load and say "error" but if you try again, it should work.

Edited July 22, 2013 by asdf190

[Nickel]

You can view spectrum at FCC.gov. When you get to spectrum dashboard, click on "browse by map" and select your county. Then filter by: AWS-1 and "common names" "Tmobile" and "metropcs" cause metro's spectrum hasn't even merged into TMUS'. You can select multiple "common names" by using "ctrl". FYI, I tried IE, Chrome, Firefox and list controls in spectrum dashboard don't work correctly except in Firefox. Also, the maps sometimes don't load and say "error" but if you try again, it should work.

Be careful with what you read on the Dashboard as it isn't always up to date. Granted, if you're looking at one particular market without much spectrum being sold, it shouldn't be an issue.

[maximus1987/lou99]

Found this :

at 07:42 mark according to Ray Neville total number of T-Mobile cell sites is ~52,000, and they're modernizing 2/3 of that which is about 37,000.

The number includes macros and DAS. Doesn't include MetroPCS sites.

That number doesn't include DAS for TMO pre-merger.

Look at slide 18/34

http://assets.fiercemarkets.com/public/mdano/amis/tmopres.pdf

The asterisk is only on Metro and TMUS.

[maximus1987/lou99]

I am not sure. But that is not germane to what I said. Sprint will have its urban and rural network upgraded to LTE by this time next year -- 2014. If nothing else, that gives Sprint a year lead in which to rail on T-Mobile in public, and Sprint should do so. Tit for tat.

 

AJ

TMUS has a year to attempt to match Sprint's projected 250mil LTE. They currently have 228mil HSPA+ though I'm not sure how much of that is FTTT.

[Moropo]

You can view spectrum at FCC.gov. When you get to spectrum dashboard, click on "browse by map" and select your county. Then filter by: AWS-1 and "common names" "Tmobile" and "metropcs" cause metro's spectrum hasn't even merged into TMUS'. You can select multiple "common names" by using "ctrl". FYI, I tried IE, Chrome, Firefox and list controls in spectrum dashboard don't work correctly except in Firefox. Also, the maps sometimes don't load and say "error" but if you try again, it should work.

 

Thanks. 

 

For which services does T-Mobile use their AWS and PCS? I seem to recall reading that they use AWS for both HSPA+ and LTE (hence the refarming, right?), but what do they use their PCS for?

[maximus1987/lou99]

Thanks.

 

For which services does T-Mobile use their AWS and PCS? I seem to recall reading that they use AWS for both HSPA+ and LTE (hence the refarming, right?), but what do they use their PCS for?

Currently, they use AWS for HSPA+ and LTE. They use PCS for HSPA+, GSM. Also, depending on the market, Tmobile uses the PCS it got from Metro for CDMA but Legere said they're shutting down Metro's network end of 2015.

 

The current iphone 5 supports LTE bands 2,4,5,17. Band 2 is PCS so eventually, Tmobile will put LTE on PCS.

[Moropo]

Currently, they use AWS for HSPA+ and LTE. They use PCS for HSPA+, GSM. Also, depending on the market, Tmobile uses the PCS it got from Metro for CDMA but Legere said they're shutting down Metro's network end of 2015.

 

The current iphone 5 supports LTE bands 2,4,5,17. Band 2 is PCS so eventually, Tmobile will put LTE on PCS.

 

According to FCC.gov they have 10x10 AWS and 10x10 PCS.

 

So from what you said they are using the 10x10 AWS as 5x5 HSPA+ and 5x5 LTE?

 

Some articles seem to paint T-Mobile as a very strong carrier specifically in Florida, by those accounts I assumed they would have enough spectrum for 10x10 LTE.

[maximus1987/lou99]

According to FCC.gov they have 10x10 AWS and 10x10 PCS.

 

So from what you said they are using the 10x10 AWS as 5x5 HSPA+ and 5x5 LTE?

 

Some articles seem to paint T-Mobile as a very strong carrier specifically in Florida, by those accounts I assumed they would have enough spectrum for 10x10 LTE.

Yes.

They have a "strong" network because of ?many towers? maybe?

[WiWavelength]

You can view spectrum at FCC.gov. When you get to spectrum dashboard...

Be careful with what you read on the Dashboard as it isn't always up to date. Granted, if you're looking at one particular market without much spectrum being sold, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

If you want real verification for a particular market, come to me first.  I am on a first name basis with the FCC ULS -- the father of the Spectrum Dashboard.

 

 

AJ

[Nickel]

If you want real verification for a particular market, come to me first.  I am on a first name basis with the FCC ULS -- the father of the Spectrum Dashboard.

 

 

AJ

There's no doubt that you're the spectrum king, AJ. Can that be you're next article on the wall of how to use the FCC ULS? I can't figure the dang thing out.

[WiWavelength]

There's no doubt that you're the spectrum king, AJ. Can that be you're next article on the wall of how to use the FCC ULS? I can't figure the dang thing out.

That is a great article idea. The problem is that I may not want to reveal all of my spectrum locating super powers. But we will work on that...

 

AJ

[Ascertion]

According to FCC.gov they have 10x10 AWS and 10x10 PCS.

 

So from what you said they are using the 10x10 AWS as 5x5 HSPA+ and 5x5 LTE?

 

Some articles seem to paint T-Mobile as a very strong carrier specifically in Florida, by those accounts I assumed they would have enough spectrum for 10x10 LTE.

I test drove T-Mobiles network here in Jacksonville and I was honestly very surprised at how well it performed. In most cases it was better than Verizon but indoor coverage took a hit in certain areas. But I still have hope in Sprint. Sprint has LTE in about 80% of the locations I frequent now so this 800mhz rollout is going to only add icing to the cake!

 

Wanted to say something about Verizon...my cousin has Verizon and we both did LTE speed tests during the day (4:00pm) and he pulled 6mbps DL, while I pulled 18. But at 2:00AM, he pulled a whopping 47mbps! It just goes to show that Verizon has a lot of people using the data during the day and its noticeable. Still, his speeds were fine for daily use but this was an example of how speeds decline during peak hours, even on the "tier 1" network.