Network Vision/LTE - Chicago Market

[tongboy]

This was LTE speed on the SW side of Palatine. I took this screenshot yesterday but this morning the speeds were similar.

 

 

Here is evdo from the same location. This is very strange in my mind.

 

 

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[hayzooos]

He means installing other roms and such. Verizon does not allow that whereas T-Mobile and Sprint allow it. Some people (me included) value that.

 

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Exactly. And yeah, Verizon provides "developer" phones for a higher price to do the same thing you can do on any other provider for the regular price of any phone you buy. The "developer" edition of the GS3 on Verizon for example is the same exact GS3 I bought on Sprint...it has an unlocked bootloader and Verizon charges a serious premium for it.

 

I didn't personally buy a GS3 because of all the bells and whistles it has to go with it. I bought it because it was the best phone that has a removable battery (so I can put an extended one in there) AND expandable storage. Some phones have neither (Nexus) and other phones have one but not the other.

 

 

I don't want to go to VZW or ATT either.  Those companies are ones that lobby against internet freedom, were pro SOPA/PIPA, and side with institutions like RIAA and govt when it comes to limiting, blocking, capping, and exploiting data and consumer privacy.  Problem is I can't stand have a minor league LTE network either.

 

 

I'm with you 100% on that one. I'm around wifi most of the day as it is, so I didn't notice the bad speed drops for a while because of this reason. The only things I was doing while on the road (not at work or at home) was streaming ESPN Radio and Pandora, but even now those are becoming less and less reliable. I was originally thinking it was the apps themselves, but now I know it's because I'm not getting jack for download transfer

[Fraydog]

I'm betting on PCS Band G interference, in the mean time you guys can turn LTE OFF.

 

It tells me a lot the other PCS bands are operational along with 800 1xA. I suspect the issue is interference in band G.

[tongboy]

I'm betting on PCS Band G interference, in the mean time you guys can turn LTE OFF.

 

It tells me a lot the other PCS bands are operational along with 800 1xA. I suspect the issue is interference in band G.

Your right. It would be nice to find out what the interference is coming from. Are any other markets seeing this?

 

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[Fraydog]

Your right. It would be nice to find out what the interference is coming from. Are any other markets seeing this?

 

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Not that I know of, but I'm hypothesizing that T-Mobile might be blasting their UMTS too powerfully in Chicago.

 

Or, another theory is that T-Mobile tucked GSM channels into the UMTS guard bands, and those are causing interference.

[Joeynach]

A warning to all before Sprint bashing begins and comparisons to other carriers are made etc etc. People follow this thread to hear up to date info on Sprints network (good or bad) and not what other carriers are doing. 

I dont think thats quite fair.  I have been one of the more active posters in this forum over the last 2 months after the discovery of the network degradation issue.  Most of the conversation has centered around investigation, theory, and the various technical aspects of the network.  There have been a few mentions of other carriers, but not in the manner at which I believe your alluding to of bashing Sprint and propping up a competitor.  We are all here like you say to learn and understand more about the Network Vision program and all the changes happening in regards to our network here in Chicago.  But that being said one of those changes is the severally reduced LTE performance of the network so brief after its roll out.  To me that warrants the level of conversation that has transpired, even if their are tones of disappointment with service delivery in some of those posts, its only natural.

[Joeynach]

Not that I know of, but I'm hypothesizing that T-Mobile might be blasting their UMTS too powerfully in Chicago. Or, another theory is that T-Mobile tucked GSM channels into the UMTS guard bands, and those are causing interference.

Quite a claim, and if true is something for Senior Management and possibly the Board at Sprint.

 

In regards to bang G interference and turning LTE off I have tried this.  When Im on 3G I dont see anything better speed wise, still in the dial up domain, ~50K during peak times, 200-300K during off peak times.  I just tested again to be sure, 70K down in Lincoln Park at 12:30PM.  Not sure how to interpret SNR on EVDO, I still get a very low value though, between 1-5.

[Fraydog]

Quite a claim, and if true is something for Senior Management and possibly the Board at Sprint.

 

In regards to bang G interference and turning LTE off I have tried this. When Im on 3G I dont see anything better speed wise, still in the dial up domain, ~50K during peak times, 200-300K during off peak times. I just tested again to be sure, 70K down in Lincoln Park at 12:30PM. Not sure on the SNR side of things on EVDO, I still get a very low value though, between 1-5.

I can't possibly figure out what else would cause interference through the entire city... But T-Mobile's on band F, and Band H on the other side of G is not yet auctioned off.

 

Yeah, I know it's an electrifying accusation to make, but I don't have any other ideas.

[Joeynach]

I can't possibly figure out what else would cause interference through the entire city... But T-Mobile's on band F, and Band H on the other side of G is not yet auctioned off.

 

Yeah, I know it's an electrifying accusation to make, but I don't have any other ideas.

Not a believer in the GS3's causing network interference theory like what happened at USCC?

[drock2750]

Perhaps the demise of carrier iq has made sprint less aware of conditions on the network. Any chance this could be resolved Jan 31, post uscc?

[drock2750]

Perhaps the demise of carrier iq has made sprint less aware of conditions on the network. Any chance this could be resolved Jan 31, post uscc?

[Fraydog]

Not a believer in the GS3's causing network interference theory like what happened at USCC?

CDMA 2000 1X Advanced in the PCS non-G bands Sprint owns in Chicago would have CDMA issues, what is happening? The LTE channels are affected. That would discount the GS3 in my thinking. If the GS3 was a problem child here, it would hurt PCS CDMA.

[Joeynach]

CDMA 2000 1X Advanced in the PCS non-G bands Sprint owns in Chicago would have CDMA issues, what is happening? The LTE channels are affected. That would discount the GS3 in my thinking. If the GS3 was a problem child here, it would hurt PCS CDMA.

Isn't it though, when connected to PCS CDMA i receive the same degraded network performance (in terms of speed and SNR value).

[drock2750]

Anecdotally, the loop seems to have better SNR that the north side. I know that 6 dB SNR is awful, but it's better than what I've been getting up north. Check out this screenshot from the Addison Red Line platform. When signal is this strong, the noise has to be pretty intense to get a number like this.

 

 

[Joeynach]

Anecdotally, the loop seems to have better SNR that the north side. I know that 6 dB SNR is awful, but it's better than what I've been getting up north. Check out this screenshot from the Addison Red Line platform. When signal is this strong, the noise has to be pretty intense to get a number like this.

Thats not as abnormal as you think.  I have seen 0.2 and 0.4 quite consistently in my home in Lincoln Park for some time now.  I guess I get "better" SNR in the Loop when Im at my office, 1 - 5, but Im also right across the street from a 3G/800/4G tower.  And actually being honest I do recall seeing good SNR's months ago.  In the range of 12-20, guess those days are gone.

[mhammett]

I see those occasionally.

 

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[Vince]

Has anyone travelled recently to another launched LTE market? I work way too much to travel, and I'm wondering how other markets are in real world use. I've read on here and other forums about how disgusted people in Houston are with data speeds.

[Joeynach]

Has anyone travelled recently to another launched LTE market? I work way too much to travel, and I'm wondering how other markets are in real world use. I've read on here and other forums about how disgusted people in Houston are with data speeds.

Not recently no, earlier this summer I traveled to NYC and Wash DC and it was pretty bad in both.  Lots of 3G, and when on LTE speeds were ok, im talking 500K to 1MB.

[Vince]

Not recently no, earlier this summer I traveled to NYC and Wash DC and it was pretty bad in both. Lots of 3G, and when on LTE speeds were ok, im talking 500K to 1MB.

Neither of those are launched cities. Slow speeds and spotty coverage are expected.

[Joeynach]

Neither of those are launched cities. Slow speeds and spotty coverage are expected.

Yeah I know, I could tell from the NV site map there wasn't a whole lot LTE to be expected.

[digiblur]

Anecdotally, the loop seems to have better SNR that the north side. I know that 6 dB SNR is awful, but it's better than what I've been getting up north. Check out this screenshot from the Addison Red Line platform. When signal is this strong, the noise has to be pretty intense to get a number like this.

With that signal that's like sticking a megaphone up to your ear and having 200 kids yell into the microphone at the same time.

[mhammett]

I strive for about 40 to 45 dB SNR.

 

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[tommym65]

Vtrossi, on 07 Nov 2013 - 4:53 PM, said:

Has anyone travelled recently to another launched LTE market? I work way too much to travel, and I'm wondering how other markets are in real world use. I've read on here and other forums about how disgusted people in Houston are with data speeds.

 

 

I am currently in downtown Colorado Springs, and the LTE screenshot I am posting above is a site about 1.7 miles east of me (although the 1xRTT address is offset to the west), based on the latest NV map update. The RSRP is poor, but the SNR is very good. Speeds between .6 and 2.0 down, .25 and 1 up, ping low 100's. Technically, Colo Springs is pre-launch, but the SNR number is fairly typical of what I have seen in recent trips to California, Missouri, and Colorado

 

That said, some comments on the Great Chicago SNR Debacle. One of the customers at the user group meeting that I am attending operates an extensive, combined wireless/wired ISP on a Caribbean island. I showed him the "Red Line" screen shot from earlier today (-55 dBm RSPR, 0.1 dB SNR), and based on his experience, his immediate comment was that there was MAJOR interference from an adjacent frequency, and that whoever is responsible is violating the law. Mobile phones are very good at cutting through noise (my phrase) on the frequencies they are programmed to receive, but cannot not cope well with noise on either side of a given frequency.

 

Which leads to some questions: According to AJ and other sources, Sprint has initially deployed 1900 LTE on PCS Block G (1910-1915MHz and 1990-1995MHz). PCS Block C (1895-1910MHz and 1975-1990MHz) falls directly below Block G, and is operated by T-Mobile in Chicago. The frequencies above Block G are not mobile communication, and I have no idea what they are used for. So, is the ultra-urgent TMO LTE deployment in Block C somehow responsible for the Sprint LTE mess? Or is something going on in the frequencies above 1995, and is THAT somehow responsible?

 

The Sprint D and E blocks are voice/CDMA at this time, and it is not likely that they would be impacted by the same interference that might affect LTE in the G Block. And as far as we know, Sprint hasn't started using, at least at full power, the USCC segment of Block B, so that probably isn't causing a problem, and Verizon (which owns the rest of the B block) hasn't done anything radical that we know of, so that probably isn't the cause.

 

Someone way earlier in this thread asked if TMO might be the cause of Sprint's Chicago LTE problem. Based on the spectrum allocation and on TMO's ultra-aggressive LTE deployment, the answer may very well be "Yes!!!!!"

 

FWIW

[bucdenny]

Screenshot_2013-11-07-19-27-58.png

 

I am currently in downtown Colorado Springs, and the LTE screenshot I am posting above is a site about 1.7 miles east of me (although the 1xRTT address is offset to the west), based on the latest NV map update. The RSRP is poor, but the SNR is very good. Speeds between .6 and 2.0 down, .25 and 1 up, ping low 100's. Technically, Colo Springs is pre-launch, but the SNR number is fairly typical of what I have seen in recent trips to California, Missouri, and Colorado

 

That said, some comments on the Great Chicago SNR Debacle. One of the customers at the user group meeting that I am attending operates an extensive, combined wireless/wired ISP on a Caribbean island. I showed him the "Red Line" screen shot from earlier today (-55 dBm RSPR, 0.1 dB SNR), and based on his experience, his immediate comment was that there was MAJOR interference from an adjacent frequency, and that whoever is responsible is violating the law. Mobile phones are very good at cutting through noise (my phrase) on the frequencies they are programmed to receive, but cannot not cope well with noise on either side of a given frequency.

 

Which leads to some questions: According to AJ and other sources, Sprint has initially deployed 1900 LTE on PCS Block G (1910-1915MHz and 1990-1995MHz). PCS Block C (1895-1910MHz and 1975-1990MHz) falls directly below Block G, and is operated by T-Mobile in Chicago. The frequencies above Block G are not mobile communication, and I have no idea what they are used for. So, is the ultra-urgent TMO LTE deployment in Block C somehow responsible for the Sprint LTE mess? Or is something going on in the frequencies above 1995, and is THAT somehow responsible?

 

The Sprint D and E blocks are voice/CDMA at this time, and it is not likely that they would be impacted by the same interference that might affect LTE in the G Block. And as far as we know, Sprint hasn't started using, at least at full power, the USCC segment of Block B, so that probably isn't causing a problem, and Verizon (which owns the rest of the B block) hasn't done anything radical that we know of, so that probably isn't the cause.

 

Someone way earlier in this thread asked if TMO might be the cause of Sprint's Chicago LTE problem. Based on the spectrum allocation and on TMO's ultra-aggressive LTE deployment, the answer may very well be "Yes!!!!!"

 

FWIW

 

How can we verify?  Would Sprint verify? And if T-Mobile is the cause of the interference what will happen?

[lilotimz]

One thing to note is that Tmobile is not rolling out LTE on PCS but they are rolling out HSPA+ AND DC-HSPA+42 on their PCS spectrum. Could be an issue maybe?