Jump to content

So, who has what spectrum in LTE?


Recommended Posts

Sprint,

1900 PCS G Block?

800 MHz SMR?

2500/2600 BRS/EBS Clear wire?

 

Verizon,

700 MHz

2100/1700 MHz AWS4

 

AT&T,

700 MHz

 

T-Mobile,

2100/1700 MHz AWS4

1900 MHz PCS

 

Sounds like there's too much aws. Kind of confused on who owns what. Can anyone correct me or enlighten me?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

AWS4 is Dish's spectrum. 

 
Also 2100/1900 is a european band. It is not used in the US, because the 1900 overlaps with our PCS band. the AWS we use is 2100/1700Mhz. 
 
Verizon
750Mhz
2100/1700 Mhz ( phones just recently started supporting this band)
 
ATT 
700Mhz
2100/1700Mhz
New phones on ATT also support LTE on 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. They will probably add support for LTE on 2.3Ghz in the near future as well. Their LTE network is very messy, IMO. 
 
Tmobile
2100/1700Mhz
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

AWS4 is Dish's spectrum.

 

Also 2100/1900 is a european band. It is not used in the US, because the 1900 overlaps with our PCS band. the AWS we use is 2100/1700Mhz.

 

Verizon

750Mhz

2100/1700 Mhz ( phones just recently started supporting this band)

 

ATT

700Mhz

2100/1700Mhz

New phones on ATT also support LTE on 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. They will probably add support for LTE on 2.3Ghz in the near future as well. Their LTE network is very messy, IMO.

 

Tmobile

2100/1700Mhz

 

Thank you. Did I get the Sprint bands correct?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

(including future bands)



Sprint



1.9 GHz Band 25 PCS A-F (depends on region)



1.9 GHz Band 25 PCS G block



800 MHz Band 26 ESMR



850 MHz Band 26 Cellular (Roaming)



700 MHz Band 12 Lower 700 A-C (Roaming)



2.5~2.7 GHz Band 41 BRS TD-LTE (Clearwire)



2.5~2.7 GHz Band 41 EBS TD-LTE (Clearwire)



T-Mobile



1700/2100 MHz Band 4 AWS-1



700 MHz Band 17 Proprietary AT&T Lower 700 B-C (Roaming)



1900MHz Band 2 PCS A-F (potentially)



850 MHz Band 5 Cellular (Roaming potentially if they haven't already)



Verizon



700 MHz Band 13 Upper 700 MHz



1700/2100 MHz Band 4 AWS-1



1900 MHz Band 2 PCS A-F (Future)



850 MHz Band 5 Cellular (Future)



AT&T



700 MHz Band 17 Proprietary Lower 700 B-C



1700/2100 MHz Band 4 AWS-1 (not likely to be used much)



1900 MHz Band 2 PCS A-F (Future)



850 MHz Band 5 Cellular 850 (Future)



2300 MHz (Band class still being drafted) WCS (Future)



Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 


US Cellular


 


700 MHz Band 12 Lower 700 A-C


 


1700/2100 MHz Band 4 AWS-1


 


800 MHz Band 26 ESMR (Future Roaming)



850 MHz Band 26 Cellular (Currently Band 5 but future handsets will support 26)


 


 


1.9 GHz Band 25 PCS A-F (Currently Band 2 but future handsets will support 25)



1.9 GHz Band 25 PCS G block (Future Roaming)


 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sprint: SMR 800 (soon) + PCS A-G (G now, A-F soon) + BRS/EBS (soon)

Verizon: 700 upper C (now) + AWS band IV (very soon)

AT&T: 700 lower B+C (now) + AWS band IV (now, few areas) + PCS A-F (soon) + CLR 850 (soon)

T-Mobile: AWS band IV (now)

CricKet & MetroPCS: PCS A-F (now) + AWS band IV (now)

US Cellular: CLR 850 + PCS A-F + AWS + 700 lower A-C? (I think all are being used other than lower A)

 

Yes, AWS is where everyone is going these days, more or less. Maybe not for a primary deployment, but phones will end up supporting the bands at least.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

lynyrd, you made the mess, so you clean it up.

 

;)

 

AJ

OK let's try this again

 

(including future and roaming bands)

 

Sprint

 

1900 MHz PCS A-G (LTE Band 25)

 

800 MHz ESMR (LTE Band 26)

 

 

850 MHz Cellular (LTE Band 26) Roaming

 

700 MHz Lower 700 A-C (LTE Band 12) Roaming

 

2500~2700 MHz BRS/EBS TD-LTE (LTE Band 41) Clearwire

 

T-Mobile

 

1700/2100 MHz AWS-1 (LTE Band 4)

 

 

1900 MHz PCS A-F (LTE Band 2) Possible for the future

 

 

700 MHz Lower 700 B-C (AT&T Proprietary) (LTE Band 17) Roaming on AT&T

 

850 MHz Cellular (LTE Band 5) Roaming (possibly)

 

 
Verizon
 
750 MHz Upper 700Mhz (LTE Band 13)
 
1700/2100 MHz AWS-1 (LTE Band 4)

 

1900 MHz PCS A-F (LTE Band 2) Possible for the future

 

 

850 MHz Cellular (LTE Band 5) Possible for the future

 

AT&T

 

700 MHz Lower 700 B-C (AT&T Proprietary) (LTE Band 17)

 

 

 

1700/2100 MHz AWS-1 (LTE Band 4) Rarely used

 

1900 MHz PCS A-F (LTE Band 2) Possible for the future

 

850 MHz Cellular (LTE Band 5)

 

2300 MHz WCS (LTE Band class still being drafted)

 

US Cellular

 

 

700 MHz Lower 700 A-C (LTE Band 12)

 

1700/2100 MHz AWS-1 (LTE Band 4)

 

850 MHz Cellular (LTE Band 26) band 26 for future devices, currently band 5

 

1900 MHz PCS A-G (LTE Band 25) Future and Roaming, current devices only support PCS A-F in band 2

 

800 MHz ESMR (LTE Band 26) Future Roaming

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely looks like Sprint has the best setup, followed by Verizon. Maybe I don't understand how much spectrum they have in each market but I've heard Clearwire had a TON in the 2.6ghz.

I believe AJ said most markets have at least 40 mhz of BRS but a variable amount of leased EBS spectrum which are fragmented and highly varies region to region so don't count on the fact that clearwire has a lot of spectrum on sheets to be an actual representation of how much clearwire could effectively utilize across the nation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely looks like Sprint has the best setup, followed by Verizon. Maybe I don't understand how much spectrum they have in each market but I've heard Clearwire had a TON in the 2.6ghz.

Verizon is actually in a bad place right now. The only band they can expand into is AWS. They would have to cannibalize their fully loaded 3G network to use 1900 and 850.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

AT&T is in an even worse place. To start with, they don't even have room for a 10x10 MHz carrier in many places on their primary LTE band, band 17. Then, they have a smattering of AWS that they will be able to use in a few areas for an extra 5x5 or 10x10 capacity carrier. Their only other "virgin" spectrum is WCS, which will give them room for another extra 5x5 or 10x10 capacity carrier. Their best case spectrum availability is 30x30, and I believe their worst is 5x5. To expand, they will need to cannibalize their current 3G network, which is not renown for its quality.

 

Verizon has a minimum of 20x20 that they can deploy, nationwide, with a lower average frequency than AT&T's spectrum.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So based on all of this who later down the road from now will be in the best position? I do not want Sprint to fall behind again when they chose to do the WiMax thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They had chosen WiMax because that was the tech which was available at that time. Sprint will have more capacity when they finish obtaining Clearwire.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

AT&T is in an even worse place. To start with, they don't even have room for a 10x10 MHz carrier in many places on their primary LTE band, band 17. Then, they have a smattering of AWS that they will be able to use in a few areas for an extra 5x5 or 10x10 capacity carrier. Their only other "virgin" spectrum is WCS, which will give them room for another extra 5x5 or 10x10 capacity carrier. Their best case spectrum availability is 30x30, and I believe their worst is 5x5. To expand, they will need to cannibalize their current 3G network, which is not renown for its quality.

 

Verizon has a minimum of 20x20 that they can deploy, nationwide, with a lower average frequency than AT&T's spectrum.

 

 

AT&T might not be ideal, but Sprint isn't deploying 10x10 ANYWHERE for LTE.  the G-block is getting 5x5, and 800Mhz is getting 5x5.  It's only if they can get approval to buy Clearwire from the rest of the bitchy shareholders that they'll have a nice position in pretty high frequencies for something to the tune of 20Mhz worth of TDD-LTE.  
 
So while AT&T only has 10Mhz in some places, Sprint has it in zero, with plans for zero more.  Unless they get to buy Clearwire.  Tomorrow.  
 
And to the above WiMAX question (again), Sprint / CLWR went with WiMax for many reasons, not the least of which was a buildout requirement they had to meet.  Hence WiMax protection sites (find a map in the sponsor section) that they put up specifically to try to avoid losing spectrum licenses.  So yeah, it sucks that it didn't work out, but in many ways it accomplished what they needed at the moment to accomplish.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So based on all of this who later down the road from now will be in the best position? I do not want Sprint to fall behind again when they chose to do the WiMax thing.

 

Sprint has the potential( if Softbank and Clearwire deals go through) to be on top in terms of speed and capacity. Verizon and ATT will be 1and 2 for coverage. Sprint's Network Vision platform will help them prevent falling as low as they were.   If you live in an area with native sprint coverage, the in-building voice and LTE data coverage should be very similar Verizon's. 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Verizon has a minimum of 20x20 that they can deploy, nationwide, with a lower average frequency than AT&T's spectrum.

 

Close, but not entirely.

 

I assume that you are talking VZW "green field" LTE spectrum in aggregate.  The Upper 700 MHz C block 22 MHz (11 MHz FDD) licenses are nationwide.  But the SpectrumCo-Cox transaction does not give VZW truly nationwide AWS 2100+1700 MHz spectrum.  Several markets are missing, and VZW has since fragmented some of that spectrum depth, due to swaps with T-Mobile.

 

About seven years ago, during the AWS-1 auction, I produced this map of SpectrumCo's winnings:

1t8m05.png

My 5000th post...

 

AJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am still trying to figure out Sprint's reasoning behind choosing to support the 700Mhz A-C block for roaming instead of Verizon's 750Mhz.  Are their any carriers actually building out LTE on the A-block? I assumed all of them joined Verizon's Rural America program. It would be great for Sprint if they could forge a nationwide LTE roaming agreement with these smaller carriers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

AT&T might not be ideal, but Sprint isn't deploying 10x10 ANYWHERE for LTE.  the G-block is getting 5x5, and 800Mhz is getting 5x5.  It's only if they can get approval to buy Clearwire from the rest of the bitchy shareholders that they'll have a nice position in pretty high frequencies for something to the tune of 20Mhz worth of TDD-LTE.  
 
So while AT&T only has 10Mhz in some places, Sprint has it in zero, with plans for zero more.  Unless they get to buy Clearwire.  Tomorrow.

 

Seriously, what is the big deal with 10x10 or 10Mhz FDD, besides measuring your phones schlong in a speed test screenshot?  For 99% of smart phone users a 3-5mbs down and 1-3mbs up connection is more than enough for every possible mobile app out there.  Sprint has a great plan with 5Mhz FDD channels and when the Clearwire spectrum comes, they will have huge pipes in the BRS/EBS with TDD LTE.  But TDD won't even be 10x10, it will be a time divided ratio, I think Robert or AJ mentioned a 10:1 d:u guess.  5Mhz FDD G Block, 5Mhz FDD SMR, plus eventual refarming 5Mhz FDD in A-F Block will cover Sprint users very, very well with mobile broadband access.

 

While I agree that long term, the larger data pipes will be needed for mobile applications and services, that is probably 5 years down the road.  Sprint have LTE-A on their map and can look at Carrier Aggregation if they need high throughput in the PCS Spectrum at that time.  I really hope that Sprint gets their wish of TDD banding for 600Mhz and that works out to clear the 70-80Mhz that the FCC wants.  Then Sprint can hopefully get a 20Mhz swath and build out the future network for use around 2018.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seriously, what is the big deal with 10x10 or 10Mhz FDD, besides measuring your phones schlong in a speed test screenshot? For 99% of smart phone users a 3-5mbs down and 1-3mbs up connection is more than enough for every possible mobile app out there. Sprint has a great plan with 5Mhz FDD channels and when the Clearwire spectrum comes, they will have huge pipes in the BRS/EBS with TDD LTE. But TDD won't even be 10x10, it will be a time divided ratio, I think Robert or AJ mentioned a 10:1 d:u guess. 5Mhz FDD G Block, 5Mhz FDD SMR, plus eventual refarming 5Mhz FDD in A-F Block will cover Sprint users very, very well with mobile broadband access.

 

While I agree that long term, the larger data pipes will be needed for mobile applications and services, that is probably 5 years down the road. Sprint have LTE-A on their map and can look at Carrier Aggregation if they need high throughput in the PCS Spectrum at that time. I really hope that Sprint gets their wish of TDD banding for 600Mhz and that works out to clear the 70-80Mhz that the FCC wants. Then Sprint can hopefully get a 20Mhz swath and build out the future network for use around 2018.

Clearwire is believed to be deploying TD-LTE in 20MHz TDD channels. Most likely with a 3:2 time slot ratio between Downlink and Uplink. A 20MHz TDD channel deployed in a 3:2 could almost reach 100Mbps in ideal peak situations and the proper backhaul.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 with Tapatalk HD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Clearwire is believed to be deploying TD-LTE in 20MHz TDD channels. Most likely with a 3:2 time slot ratio between Downlink and Uplink. A 20MHz TDD channel deployed in a 3:2 could almost reach 100Mbps in ideal peak situations and the proper backhaul.

Robert via Nexus 7 with Tapatalk HD

Between that plan for Highspeed Data and a hopeful 20Mhz TDD in 600Mhz with PCS tower spacing for VoLTE, Sprint would be set for quite awhile, with a very strong network!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Between that plan for Highspeed Data and a hopeful 20Mhz TDD in 600Mhz with PCS tower spacing for VoLTE, Sprint would be set for quite awhile, with a very strong network!

 

And probably we will see that all come to true in 2023 at the current pace.

Edited by dnwk
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am still trying to figure out Sprint's reasoning behind choosing to support the 700Mhz A-C block for roaming instead of Verizon's 750Mhz. Are their any carriers actually building out LTE on the A-block? I assumed all of them joined Verizon's Rural America program. It would be great for Sprint if they could forge a nationwide LTE roaming agreement with these smaller carriers.

My other carrier, US Cellular.

 

They have a good amount of coverage in the plains area (tons where I live) and intend to build out to cover most of their footprint with band 12 LTE service.

 

The carriers that use band 12 are among the last holdout regional carriers not to be owned by the big four.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am still trying to figure out Sprint's reasoning behind choosing to support the 700Mhz A-C block for roaming instead of Verizon's 750Mhz.  Are their any carriers actually building out LTE on the A-block? I assumed all of them joined Verizon's Rural America program. It would be great for Sprint if they could forge a nationwide LTE roaming agreement with these smaller carriers. 

 

It takes two to tango. I seem to recall VZW not being terribly keen about offering Sprint (or most anyone else) roaming although I'm sure that it's a great source of revenue for them. AT&T could replace VZW as a main roaming partner for Sprint as their Band 17 spectrum is included in Band 12. Supporting VZW Band 13 would limit Sprint to VZW and its LTEiRA cohorts. Sprint is a member of the Competitive Carriers Association (CCA) and I'd bet that a lot of it's members have lower 700 A, B & C spectrum so why not use them as roaming partners and likely get better roaming rates than from VZW

 

Edit: One other implication of them including Band 13 support for roaming on VZW is that their devices would almost certainly be subject to the same rules as native VZW devices. Specifically, they'd have to be totally SIM unlocked meaning that if it had a GSM/UMTS radio in it (which almost all of them do these days) then it could be taken to AT&T or T-Mobile no questions asked which doesn't seem like something that Sprint is too keen on unfortunately.

Edited by Rawvega
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My other carrier, US Cellular.

 

They have a good amount of coverage in the plains area (tons where I live) and intend to build out to cover most of their footprint with band 12 LTE service.

 

The carriers that use band 12 are among the last holdout regional carriers not to be owned by the big four.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

Sadly, this may not be the case anymore. US Cellular is rebuilding LTE on Band 5 this year, with the intent to expand the network on bands 2 and 5 for the remainder of its LTE build out cycles. It appears that Band 12 has become too much of an issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • large.unreadcontent.png.6ef00db54e758d06

  • gallery_1_23_9202.png

  • Posts

    • Excuse my rookie comments here, but after enabling *#73#, it seems that the rainbow sim V2? requires n70 (I turned it off along with n71 - was hoping to track n66) to be available else it switches to T-Mobile.  So this confirms my suspicion that you need to be close to a site to get on Dish.  Have no idea why they don't just use plmn. To test, I put it into a s21 ultra, rebooted twice, came up on T-Mobile (no n70 on s21).  Tried to manually register on 313340, but it did not connect (tried twice). I am on factory unlocked firmware but used a s22 hack to get *#73# working.  Tried what you were suggesting with a T-Mobile sim partially installed, but that was very unstable with Dish ( I think they had figured that one out).  [edit: and now I see Boost sent me a successful device swap notice which says I can now begin to use my new device.  Sigh.  Will try again later and wait for this message - too impatient.]
    • Hopefully this indicates T-Mobile hasn't completely abandoned mmwave and/or small cells? But then again this is the loop, so take that as you will. Hopefully now that most macro activity is done (besides rural colo/builds), they will start working on small cells.   
    • This has been approved.. https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/fcc-approves-t-mobiles-deal-to-purchase-mint-mobile/  
    • In the conference call they had two question on additional spectrum. One was the 800 spectrum. They are not certain what will happen, thus have not really put it into their plans either way (sale or no sale). They do have a reserve level. Nationwide 800Mhz is seen as great for new technologies which I presume is IOT or 5g slices.  T-Mobile did not bite on use of their c-band or DOD.  mmWave rapidly approaching deadlines not mentioned at all. FWA brushes on this as it deals with underutilized spectrum on a sector by sector basis.  They are willing to take more money to allow FWA to be mobile (think RV or camping). Unsure if this represents a higher priority, for example, FWA Mobile in RVs in Walmart parking lots working where mobile phones need all the capacity. In terms of FWA capacity, their offload strategy is fiber through joint ventures where T-Mobile does the marketing, sales, and customer support while the fiber company does the network planning and installation.  50%-50% financial split not being consolidated into their books. I think discussion of other spectrum would have diluted the fiber joint venture discussion. They do have a fund which one use is to purchase new spectrum. Sale of the 800Mhz would go into this. It should be noted that they continue to buy 2.5Ghz spectrum from schools etc to replace leases. They will have a conference this fall  to update their overall strategies. Other notes from the call are 75% of the phones on the network are 5g. About 85% of their sites have n41, n25, and n71, 90% 5g.  93% of traffic is on midband.  SA is also adding to their performance advantage, which they figure is still ahead of other carriers by two years. It took two weeks to put the auction 108 spectrum to use at their existing sites. Mention was also made that their site spacing was designed for midrange thus no gaps in n41 coverage, while competitors was designed for lowband thus toggles back and forth for n77 also with its shorter range.  
    • The manual network selection sounds like it isn't always scanning NR, hence Dish not showing up. Your easiest way to force Dish is going to be forcing the phone into NR-only mode (*#*#4636#*#* menu?), since rainbow sims don't support SA on T-Mobile.
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...