Shentel / Sprint LTE - (was ntelos - West & N&W Virginia)

[blackwaterstout]

When I talked to the store rep in Morgantown he was adamant that sprint customers would not be able to use nTelos LTE network, and vice versa ntelos customers would not be able to use sprints LTE network. He said that Sprint and ntelos agreement was only for 1x and 3g. I know you can't put any stock into what store reps tell you but that is what he was pushing.

 

The screen cap of the iPhone with ntelos LTE..........please tell me the guy ran some speed tests! If so what were the speeds like?

 

3G on ntelos towers in Morgantown have been good for a long time. Normally around 2mb down and 0.8mb up.

[shawneyboy123]

The screen cap of the iPhone with ntelos LTE..........please tell me the guy ran some speed tests! If so what were the speeds like?.

Sadly no it was just somebody on twitter tweeting so other people would do it. I'm anxious to see speeds too!

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[S4GRU]

Sprint customers will DEFINITELY be able to use the nTelos LTE network on PCS. That agreement is done and the ink is dry. The guy at the nTelos store is saying that to people to sell them service directly. He is a fool, charlatan or a liar.

 

nTelos only keeps from going bankrupt based on its wholesale agreement with Sprint.

 

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

[bubretti]

Thanks Robert. On another note ntelos said they launched "markets" plural via Twitter. Wonder where they are other than waynesboro?

[mrancier]

This is quite reassuring, thank you, but it is also further troubling.  There have been many valid arguments made for a Sprint buyout of nTelos, despite the company's insistence that they want to go at it independently.  Compared to their closest Sprint partner (Shentel), nTelos upgrades are going glacially slow. Despite an official announcement something like 9 months ago, they've only managed to get ONE market PARTIALLY deployed.  Now this is a bit out there, but this seems like a company maneuvering to hoard as much cash as possible to keep their stock price stable, enabling a favorable buyout offer.  To me, it just doesn't make sense to announce you will be deploying LTE in your network (March ?), partnering with a major Tech company, tell your investors you are definitely doing it (last two guidance conference calls), and, 9 months later, you have nothing to show for it.  Even in Waynesboro it isn't advertised at all (apparently).  It might be another year before nTelos territory gets upgraded to NV, if any of my crazy, baseless, speculation turns out to be close to the truth.

 

Sprint customers will DEFINITELY be able to use the nTelos LTE network on PCS. That agreement is done and the ink is dry. The guy at the nTelos store is saying that to people to sell them service directly. He is a fool, charlatan or a liar.

nTelos only keeps from going bankrupt based on its wholesale agreement with Sprint.

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Edited December 18, 2013 by mrancier

[davidtm]

 It might be another year before nTelos territory gets upgraded to NV, if any of my crazy, baseless, speculation turns out to be close to the truth.

I'm afraid you're right, but I really hope you aren't. I'll try to swing by W'boro sometime in the next few days and scope it our on my Sprint One.

 

[Fraydog]

If Sprint is keeping nTelos afloat, why not just buy them out?

 

Is Sprint just looking for nTelos to give up the ghost like Revol?

[Paynefanbro]

I feel like Sprint will gulp up what's left of it's smaller network sharing partners over the next 2 years, if the T-mobile thing won't happen.

[shawneyboy123]

Even if the T-Mobile merger does go through I think they will acquire a few. Just look at T-Mobile coverage in the state of WV, there is almost 0 native coverage in the entire state, it's all EDGE roaming on AT&T. So an accusation of a carrier like nTelos would still be a good decision.

 

 

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Edited December 19, 2013 by shawneyboy123

[Paynefanbro]

Even if the T-Mobile merger does go through I think they will acquire a few. Just look at T-Mobile coverage in the state of WV, there is almost 0 native coverage in the entire state, it's all EDGE roaming on AT&T. So an acquisition of a carrier like nTelos would still be a good decision.

 

 

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It seems inevitable to me. Especially with Dish network in the picture working with both Sprint and nTelos. Maybe Sprint sees it more economically feasible to simply buy out nTelos than to keep it operating by sending them more money.

[shawneyboy123]

It seems inevitable to me. Especially with Dish network in the picture working with both Sprint and nTelos. Maybe Sprint sees it more economically feasible to simply buy out nTelos than to keep it operating by sending them more money.

Buying them out would really speed up network improvements in this big "hole" on their coverage map, and finally add some orange to it. It would also cut out a lot of hassle with them having to keep giving them money and fool with it all. It would make things more linear and smoother and over with.

 

 

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[vtimmy13]

Driving to florida from buffalo new york on friday... with a friend... gonna try to be the driver through the virginias ill die of slowness! i remember from some other years not getting signal or 2g only 3g when i entered a big town and even that was slow... GOD DAMN YOU NTELOS!

[mrancier]

It would suck to have our service dependant on a haggling war. Sprint is flush with softbank cash; why not proceed with a buyout sooner rather than later ?

 

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[mrancier]

NTELOS would be relatively cheap. There is also the fact that NTELOS has its own backhaul. Their parent company, now known as Lumos networks has a lot of fiber in the region which more than likely feeds their towers. That may be problematic in the event of a sale.

It might be an issue to buy wireless operations only to be tied up with infrastucture. Sprint left the local incumbent carrier market years ago, so they may not want to buy Lumos.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

 

Edited December 19, 2013 by mrancier

[blackwaterstout]

What are the ultimate financials of the Sprint/ntelos relationship. I keep hearing everyone talk about how much Sprint has to pay ntelos. But nTelos has 500k subscribers that use sprints nationwide network so is this as lopsided as we think?

 

~60 million sprint customers, how many of which live or travel through a small state like WV? versus ~500k nTelos subscribers that travel across the entire country (minus VA and NC) using sprints network. What do you suppose the total data usage is by each customer set on the others network?

 

My understanding is that WV is the primary state where Sprint has minimal footprint and relies on ntelos. Some of the ntelos territory in other states like VA actually overlaps with sprint doesn't it?

[mrancier]

What are the ultimate financials of the Sprint/ntelos relationship. I keep hearing everyone talk about how much Sprint has to pay ntelos. But nTelos has 500k subscribers that use sprints nationwide network so is this as lopsided as we think?

 

~60 million sprint customers, how many of which live or travel through a small state like WV? versus ~500k nTelos subscribers that travel across the entire country (minus VA and NC) using sprints network. What do you suppose the total data usage is by each customer set on the others network?

 

My understanding is that WV is the primary state where Sprint has minimal footprint and relies on ntelos. Some of the ntelos territory in other states like VA actually overlaps with sprint doesn't it?

 

Most of South Western Virginia is covered by nTelos and Shentel.  I think Sprint towers stop somewhere around Harrisonburg VA (The correct info is somewhere in this site).  I imagine that not a large percentage of nTelos subs take advantage of the nationwide coverage.  In fact, nTelos most popular and cheapest plans ,until recently, were Tristate local only (The offered nationwide as a separate tier).  Their Nationwide by default plans are a somewhat recent development.  While this region is relatively small, it seems profitable enough that VZW, ATT and even T-Mob, have nearly 100% LTE coverage (Except out in the country, and T-Mobs AWS suckiness).  Sprint is pretty much the only carrier that does not have LTE in 2/3 of Virginia and West Virginia.  Both VZW and ATT have large local Installations in the Roanoke Valley.  None of this probably answers your main question.  Sorry.

[marioc21]

What are the ultimate financials of the Sprint/ntelos relationship. I keep hearing everyone talk about how much Sprint has to pay ntelos. But nTelos has 500k subscribers that use sprints nationwide network so is this as lopsided as we think?

 

~60 million sprint customers, how many of which live or travel through a small state like WV? versus ~500k nTelos subscribers that travel across the entire country (minus VA and NC) using sprints network. What do you suppose the total data usage is by each customer set on the others network?

 

My understanding is that WV is the primary state where Sprint has minimal footprint and relies on ntelos. Some of the ntelos territory in other states like VA actually overlaps with sprint doesn't it?

 

Most of South Western Virginia is covered by nTelos and Shentel.  I think Sprint towers stop somewhere around Harrisonburg VA (The correct info is somewhere in this site).  I imagine that not a large percentage of nTelos subs take advantage of the nationwide coverage.  In fact, nTelos most popular and cheapest plans ,until recently, were Tristate local only (The offered nationwide as a separate tier).  Their Nationwide by default plans are a somewhat recent development.  While this region is relatively small, it seems profitable enough that VZW, ATT and even T-Mob, have nearly 100% LTE coverage (Except out in the country, and T-Mobs AWS suckiness).  Sprint is pretty much the only carrier that does not have LTE in 2/3 of Virginia and West Virginia.  Both VZW and ATT have large local Installations in the Roanoke Valley.  None of this probably answers your main question.  Sorry.

 

Shentel provides coverage from Harrisonburg to points north along I-81. NTelos covers most of area south until about Abingdon. 

[kelmelzer]

Shentel provides coverage from Harrisonburg to points north along I-81. NTelos covers most of area south until about Abingdon.

It's SW border is actually at Wythe County, so it's basically after Rural Retreat. Smyth County/Marion which is SW of there is really screwed since they are entirely 1X on that 81 corridor and somehow not in the Nashville market like Abingdon and Bristol but instead Southern Virginia.

 

As far as a buyout. Ntelos' market cap is approximately 1.5% of Sprint's, and I am actually a shameful Ntelos stockholder as much as I bash them. Ntelos' cap has nearly doubled in the past year as well, so it's not a preferable time to buy them either. They somehow have been very profitable to own in the past year due to that and have a great dividend to go along with that.

 

If you look at their revenue charts, they itemize their wholesale revenue, and while it is still a decent amount of their overall revenue, I doubt the statement that they are afloat only thanks to Sprint's wholesale agreement.

 

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[S4GRU]

The last time I recall hearing it, it was something like 50% of all their wireless revenue was from Sprint. nTelos is not a well run business. It could not handle losing 50% of its wireless business. Seeing how the typical American business works on a profit margin of 7%, a 50% loss of business would be catastrophic and likely result in bankruptcy.

 

That's why Sprint's threats to overlay nTelos coverage with Shentel were so powerful. nTelos is probably begging Sprint to just buy them out. However, nTelos also has a lot of non strategic assets that makes a purchase a pain in the ass for Sprint. I'm not sure how this is going to play out.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[mrancier]

It's SW border is actually at Wythe County, so it's basically after Rural Retreat. Smyth County/Marion which is SW of there is really screwed since they are entirely 1X on that 81 corridor and somehow not in the Nashville market like Abingdon and Bristol but instead Southern Virginia.

 

As far as a buyout. Ntelos' market cap is approximately 1.5% of Sprint's, and I am actually a shameful Ntelos stockholder as much as I bash them. Ntelos' cap has nearly doubled in the past year as well, so it's not a preferable time to buy them either. They somehow have been very profitable to own in the past year due to that and have a great dividend to go along with that.

 

If you look at their revenue charts, they itemize their wholesale revenue, and while it is still a decent amount of their overall revenue, I doubt the statement that they are afloat only thanks to Sprint's wholesale agreement.

 

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This is great information.  Thank you for sharing.

[kelmelzer]

NTELOS would be relatively cheap. There is also the fact that NTELOS has its own backhaul. Their parent company, now known as Lumos networks has a lot of fiber in the region which more than likely feeds their towers. That may be problematic in the event of a sale. It might be an issue to buy wireless operations only to be tied up with infrastucture. Sprint left the local incumbent carrier market years ago, so they may not want to buy Lumos. Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

 

This is incorrect.  Lumos (LMOS) and NTELOS (NTLS) actually split off not too long ago to form their own individual publicly traded companies.  There is no ownership interest of one with the other; they are merely business partners now.  Ntelos obviously has lots of contacts with Lumos as they are neighbors in Waynesboro more or less, so they can easily set up fiber agreements.

[kelmelzer]

The last time I recall hearing it, it was something like 50% of all their wireless revenue was from Sprint. nTelos is not a well run business. It could not handle losing 50% of its wireless business. Seeing how the typical American business works on a profit margin of 7%, a 50% loss of business would be catastrophic and likely result in bankruptcy.

 

That's why Sprint's threats to overlay nTelos coverage with Shentel were so powerful. nTelos is probably begging Sprint to just buy them out. However, nTelos also has a lot of non strategic assets that makes a purchase a pain in the ass for Sprint. I'm not sure how this is going to play out.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

 

Yeah, I rechecked.  Typically their wholesale revenue is about 1/3rd of their overall revenue (about $40m out of $120m per quarter on average).  For some reason, I thought it was closer to 10%.  Their operating income per quarter is typically $15-20m, so obviously that would be a hit.

[mrancier]

The last time I recall hearing it, it was something like 50% of all their wireless revenue was from Sprint. nTelos is not a well run business. It could not handle losing 50% of its wireless business. Seeing how the typical American business works on a profit margin of 7%, a 50% loss of business would be catastrophic and likely result in bankruptcy.

 

That's why Sprint's threats to overlay nTelos coverage with Shentel were so powerful. nTelos is probably begging Sprint to just buy them out. However, nTelos also has a lot of non strategic assets that makes a purchase a pain in the ass for Sprint. I'm not sure how this is going to play out.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

 

This might be the reason why a takeover has not occurred.   It seems like they're haggling.  They have Shentel who is very aggressive in its expansion, and, surely, would be ready and willing to take this territory from nTelos.  Maybe they are waiting on a good price point ?   I suppose if 50% of my revenue would come from one client a sale would look pretty good.  IT is very risky to stick it out on your own with a threat like a Sprint/Shentel overbuild hanging over you.  Not really a lot of incentive to invest in upgrades if you can instead hoard as much cash as you can to keep your value up.  But what of Lumos and its fiber ?  I can't imaging Sprint would want to deal with that, however, Shentel might.  They have Cable service and Lumos might be an easier way to expand ?

[mrancier]

This is incorrect.  Lumos (LMOS) and NTELOS (NTLS) actually split off not too long ago to form their own individual publicly traded companies.  There is no ownership interest of one with the other; they are merely business partners now.  Ntelos obviously has lots of contacts with Lumos as they are neighbors in Waynesboro more or less, so they can easily set up fiber agreements.

 

Thank you for the info.  I still thought they were connected somehow.  

Edited December 19, 2013 by mrancier

[S4GRU]

This might be the reason why a takeover has not occurred. It seems like they're haggling. They have Shentel who is very aggressive in its expansion, and, surely, would be ready and willing to take this territory from nTelos. Maybe they are waiting on a good price point ? I suppose if 50% of my revenue would come from one client a sale would look pretty good. IT is very risky to stick it out on your own with a threat like a Sprint/Shentel overbuild hanging over you. Not really a lot of incentive to invest in upgrades if you can instead hoard as much cash as you can to keep your value up. But what of Lumos and its fiber ? I can't imaging Sprint would want to deal with that, however, Shentel might. They have Cable service and Lumos might be an easier way to expand ?

I think Sprint doesn't want nTelos at all for themselves. I think Sprint wants Shentel to buy them and would try to broker that deal. And maybe even finance it in part or total. Sprint may work out a deal to buy nTelos and resell it immediately to Shentel.

 

Shentel is a much more compatible business and could handle all of nTelos' non strategic assets, whereas Sprint would just try to resell the NSA's. Also, I guess it's possible nTelos could just sell its wireless assets. But I think they just want out en toto.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro