Network Vision/LTE - Chicago Market

[Joeynach]

I'm scanning STL for this and so far, we have not seen any USCC conversions to Network Vision. I definitely have a few places where Sprint could use USCC sites in rural Randolph County in Sparta and near the World Shooting Complex to cover travelers who are coming in town for that facility's big event, the Grand American.

Yeah it would be nice to see Sprint's networks handle large events without fear no matter where we go.  We'll get there one day.  Looking forward to some people checking in on Soldier Field this coming Bears season with their tri-band, thats been a long time service dead zone during games/concerts for Sprint, before and after NV 1.0.

[cubsfnn555]

Whenever someone gets a chance to answer this... I do have a question.. How long does it take to fully optimize say, band 26 for instance?

[lilotimz]

Whenever someone gets a chance to answer this... I do have a question.. How long does it take to fully optimize say, band 26 for instance?

 

3-6 months and can take multiple tries. 

[cubsfnn555]

3-6 months and can take multiple tries.

[cubsfnn555]

Wow! 3-6 months! Ok, final question, why does it take so long to optimize? Sorry, I'm BRAND new to this:)

[Dkoellerwx]

Wow! 3-6 months! Ok, final question, why does it take so long to optimize? Sorry, I'm BRAND new to this:)

 

It's a bit of an art to get the site to work well with it's neighbors. Rural sites with wide spacing are much easier than urban sites which are packed closer together and experience a lot more noise from their neighbors. What looks good on paper doesn't always turn out they way it's expected. Also, there are fewer crews to doing optimization than there are installs, and installs go much faster than optimization, so optimization can fall behind. Sprint has given those crews a 6 month window to get things in order behind the installation crews. 

[lilotimz]

Wow! 3-6 months! Ok, final question, why does it take so long to optimize? Sorry, I'm BRAND new to this:)

You need an extremely well trained and experienced crew of rf engineers and sometimes real world experience is very different from expectations from simulations and earlier calculations.

 

It's basically a lot of trial and error to make sure the cells don't interfere with one and another and that they're properly configured not only for coverage but capacity and hand offs.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[cubsfnn555]

All right that's it, you two deserve a raise for those answers, you really know your stuff!

[cubsfnn555]

So, if I'm getting this correctly... It will be another couple months AT LEAST, until we see the FULL effects of band 26?

[lilotimz]

So, if I'm getting this correctly... It will be another couple months AT LEAST, until we see the FULL effects of band 26?

You can say that.

 

It appears they're sending out techs to just fire em up at low power or the max downtilt settings just for immediate capacity offloading.

 

Experienced Rf engineers would run around optimizing the sites in due time.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[cubsfnn555]

Wow, ok.. Again, I'm lucky to be on here, you guys should HONESTLY give yourselves a pat on the back, this stuff is confusing. Thank you so much! Just got to wait a little longer for a better performance...

[Fraydog]

You can say that.

 

It appears they're sending out techs to just fire em up at low power or the max downtilt settings just for immediate capacity offloading.

 

Experienced Rf engineers would run around optimizing the sites in due time.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

The STL network for B26 is pretty much getting 10 Mbps without trying and without optimization. FWIW.

 

I can say it's way better than it has ever been in building up there. Contrast to Magenta that has high speeds outdoors and doesn't have nearly the same luck inside thick structures (LOTS OF E).

[Fraydog]

Yeah it would be nice to see Sprint's networks handle large events without fear no matter where we go.  We'll get there one day.  Looking forward to some people checking in on Soldier Field this coming Bears season with their tri-band, thats been a long time service dead zone during games/concerts for Sprint, before and after NV 1.0.

http://www.mobilesportsreport.com/2013/10/soldier-field-gets-upgraded-das-from-att-boingo/

 

http://www.mobilesportsreport.com/2013/12/stadium-tech-report-boingo-att-answer-call-for-more-das-bandwidth-at-chicagos-soldier-field/

 

DAS systems crumble under multiple providers. That's the whole flaw with them.

 

In Sprint's case, B41 has to be deployed with DAS otherwise it's fully saturated. I anticipate Sprint will have B41 on the DAS by the time the Bears regular season starts.

 

Get a Spark device and you will probably have no issues at Soldier Field. Specifically I'm betting you will have a much better experience over all in Chicago period with a Spark device. When you relegate the GS3 to the bedroom drawer and get something like a Nexus 5 or M8, you'll have a much better experience connecting to the Soldier Field DAS system.

[Joeynach]

http://www.mobilesportsreport.com/2013/10/soldier-field-gets-upgraded-das-from-att-boingo/

 

http://www.mobilesportsreport.com/2013/12/stadium-tech-report-boingo-att-answer-call-for-more-das-bandwidth-at-chicagos-soldier-field/

 

DAS systems crumble under multiple providers. That's the whole flaw with them.

 

In Sprint's case, B41 has to be deployed with DAS otherwise it's fully saturated. I anticipate Sprint will have B41 on the DAS by the time the Bears regular season starts.

 

Get a Spark device and you will probably have no issues at Soldier Field. Specifically I'm betting you will have a much better experience over all in Chicago period with a Spark device. When you relegate the GS3 to the bedroom drawer and get something like a Nexus 5 or M8, you'll have a much better experience connecting to the Soldier Field DAS system.

What I don't know about that DAS is what it is providing for Sprint.  Last time I was there in Nov 2013 for a game, the DAS seemed to do nothing for Sprint users, there was no extra coverage or capacity on B25, nor did I notice any service to be had on any 3G technologies.  Looked like users of Red and Blue were working just fine, me and my Sprint friends had our phones turn into bricks.  Makes me wonder if the technology stack on the DAS actually has support for Sprint's LTE bands, or maybe it's just providing 1X for non ATT customers.  The articles don't really say.  I wonder what actually technology the DAS system contains that is compatible with Sprint phones.  However, if the DAS is just providing WiFi access from Boingo (which you have to pay for) and which has been available at solider field for years now, it really isn't doing anything for Sprint customers.  I made the mistake of buying that Boingo WiFi for a game in 2012, big mistake, worse than free airport WiFi, sub dialup and timeouts galore.  It does say the DAS has been upgraded to provide capacity on ATTs LTE Network so we know that's there is LTE transmission on B17.

 

I know my GS3 is out of date Fray, but like I said before Sprint signed me to a contract with this device, then changed their network architecture during our terms.  They made my phone obsolete halfway through my contract without offering me something to keep up with their changes and take advantage of what they built.  There was no way in hell I was shelling out the $600 out of pocket price for a tri band phone.  I consider it similar to when Comcast switched their technology stack from analog to all digital delivery and required people to install those little digital-analog converters if they wanted to maintain basic cable and not upgrade to the full digital product (with digital box).  Comcast gave each subscriber something like three free converters to maintain service, if you wanted/needed more I think you had to buy or lease em. 

 

To me it would have been nice to see Sprint do something to help people transition off being stuck on B25, helps both user and the network by large, which in turn helps other users, etc etc.  If Sprint would have said to me 6 months ago hey Joey want to sign a new 2 year deal now and get a tri-band device for $200 instead of either waiting for Fall of 2014 or just paying the $600 out of pocket price for the same device now I would have said where do I sign.  Instead we still have plenty of me's out there, people waiting for the attrition of their contract to upgrade, stuck on the little old B25 which can hardly handle a shopping mall let a lone a stadium or event, complaining, and then smack talking Sprint all over the web (not me personally, but general Sprint users).

 

And what's worse, the extra time I have spent stuck on (and dissapointed in) B25 has prompted me to at least look around at other providers.  In doing so I saw my new employer offers 20% on a couple of the other carriers.  So now when my contract is up I really have to take a long hard look at Sprint tri-band vs. others because at this point the 20% neutralizes the cost difference. 

[jamisonshaw125]

 

 

And what's worse, the extra time I have spent stuck on (and dissapointed in) B25 has prompted me to at least look around at other providers.  In doing so I saw my new employer offers 20% on a couple of the other carriers.  So now when my contract is up I really have to take a long hard look at Sprint tri-band vs. others because at this point the 20% neutralizes the cost difference. 

It won't be that difficult when you see the, hopefully, immediate relief that you get by having a spark phone in a spark market. You can't judge sprint based on b25 before you've tried b26 and b41 goodness.... That would be like me judging tmobile without their wideband LTE in the few markets they have. Or like judging verizon without their XLTE (even though they have significantly more markets deployed than spark). 

 

Perhaps Sprint will run a promotion when there is more spark and the eCSFB and backhaul issues have been mostly cleared up nationwide...but running one now with the complications there are would only create chaos. But I would also just like to say, go with the provider that works best for you. If you get a spark phone and find it still doesn't meet your expectations, then go to the provider that does. 

[Fraydog]

The Nexus 5 is $349. That's really good for a non-contract device. Either that, or see if Sprint accelerates the end on the contract. They might just do that. Either way, you will have the contract date up soon after you get back to Chicago.

[S4GRU]

I know my GS3 is out of date Fray, but like I said before Sprint signed me to a contract with this device, then changed their network architecture during our terms.  They made my phone obsolete halfway through my contract without offering me something to keep up with their changes and take advantage of what they built. 

 

You knew full well the limitations of your GS3 when you bought it and that it was not future proof.  There is no panacea for this conundrum for Sprint except to stop deploying on new spectrum.  Which is not an option for Sprint, or any provider for that matter.  There are lots of AT&T and Verizon customers without access to new bands that are available with the new devices.  It's the way it is.

 

If you want access to new bands and have a better network experience, you will likely need to upgrade more than once every two years.  No matter which provider you use.  So, this is your problem.  Not Sprints.

 

This problem is the same problem every smartphone customer on every provider is going to have.  The same problem will come about again in the future even if you upgrade to Triband now.  Because next you won't have LTE Advanced and Carrier Aggregation.  Or you won't have VoLTE and roaming on CCA member networks.  There is no way to futureproof yourself.  You can only adapt, or become outdated.

 

If you choose not to upgrade, that's your choice.  But doing so you create a limit on yourself, that many other people will not suffer because upgrading to the newest network capabilities are important to them.  It just obviously is not important enough to you.  But your continued ad nauseum complaints stating the same thing over and over again are not welcome.  You will continue to suffer the limitations of a uniband device based on your choices.  We don't want to hear it anymore.  Upgrade your device or change providers.  But please stop the continual complaints about your uniband experience at S4GRU.  It will continue to suck.  Even if it sucks less sometimes in some places.

 

Robert

[Joeynach]

The Nexus 5 is $349. That's really good for a non-contract device. Either that, or see if Sprint accelerates the end on the contract. They might just do that. Either way, you will have the contract date up soon after you get back to Chicago.

I might, Vince actually has offered to sell me his N5 for less.  I was looking at getting it late last year when I was getting fed up being on B25 only, but then I heard about the chronic B41 delay there and figured might as well keep waiting.

[Joeynach]

You knew full well the limitations of your GS3 when you bought it and that it was not future proof.

Actually I didn't, I was a S4GRU rookie, didn't know half about NV and Sprint's architecture then compared to what I know now after two more years on this site.  If I did my decision would have probably been different.  I probably would have decided to find some cheap transition phone until I could get my hands on a tri-band.

[jamisonshaw125]

I might, Vince actually has offered to sell me his N5 for less.  I was looking at getting it late last year when I was getting fed up being on B25 only, but then I heard about the chronic B41 delay there and figured might as well keep waiting.

So why haven't you gotten it from Vince. If I was in your area in chicago, I would've gotten a nexus 5 a long time ago. A few bucks is a lot better than an unusable phone. You should just do it. 

[Joeynach]

So why haven't you gotten it from Vince. If I was in your area in chicago, I would've gotten a nexus 5 a long time ago. A few bucks is a lot better than an unusable phone. You should just do it. 

Because I just discovered the 20% discounts through my employers and needed some time to compare everything.  Now I am sitting here 2 months away from a contract upgrade, right when GS5 Prime vs. iPhone 6 comes out, wouldn't you just wait for that now too?

[WiWavelength]

I probably would have decided to find some cheap transition phone until I could get my hands on a tri-band.

 

So, accept the reality of the situation.  If you are going to be "cheap," then you are going to have a less than optimal experience on any major network or operator these days.  You can never get ahead of the curve for very long.  Just keeping up with the curve requires spending money frequently on new handsets -- something that you do not seem willing to do.

 

AJ

[Fraydog]

Here's the size up of the situation with the other carriers:

 

T-Mobile has devices that work with AWS LTE B4 but most don't work with upcoming rural PCS LTE deployments or upcoming 700 A B12 deployments.

 

Verizon has devices they still sell with no XLTE access. They only started selling XLTE devices last year. Lots of people can only hit B13.

 

AT&T devices mostly support B2, B4, B5, and B17. Yet there's also future frequencies they'll add that even those devices will not support like B29 and B30.

 

Sprint is fairly straightforward with their band situation when you compare it to AT&T and Verizon. And even T-Mobile is going to deploy a bunch of spectrum most of their current devices don't support.

 

Spark phones are tri-band. The iPhone 5S and 5C are dual band phones. Older models with 4GLTE but no Spark are single band.

[jamisonshaw125]

Because I just discovered the 20% discounts through my employers and needed some time to compare everything.  Now I am sitting here 2 months away from a contract upgrade, right when GS5 Prime vs. iPhone 6 comes out, wouldn't you just wait for that now too?

Hard to say. With 2 months left, I probably wouldn't have switched. But this experience has been happening for you for quite some time now. I definitely would have gotten a triband or at least a dual band device by now. I mean, I paid full price for my iPhone 5s  simply because its dual band and I didn't want to be stuck on a uniband device until feb of 2014. I've started experiencing b26, and its solid gold to me and worth every penny. Plus I sold my 5 and really only payed about what I would've for a new phone anyways.

[Joeynach]

 

But your continued ad nauseum complaints stating the same thing over and over again are not welcome.  You will continue to suffer the limitations of a uniband device based on your choices.  We don't want to hear it anymore. 

I disagree with your "ad naseum complaints" statement.  I am trying to make observations, often time ask questions, and sometimes like above just express my opinion (or desire).  Whether it's this market or others I travel to.  Some of those observations have a pattern to them given my device limitations, but not once do I rant off about poor service like a Sprint.com forum.  I have been here too long now for that.  I know 100% my device sucks and my experience is limited by it, but I also don't believe there is anything wrong with expressing being "disappointed" when appropriate. I am trying to be unbias, I want Sprint to succeed too, I'm a freaking shareholder.  If you feel differently PM me and let me know your stance, its your site Robert, not mine.