600 MHz auction results posted and transition schedule

[Trip]

Wouldn't the FCC run into potential spacing issues? If another station down the road also decides to not go into the auction, reshuffling wouldn't be as easy.

 

As I said, it won't be as neat and tidy as I stated.  The estimates range from 400 to 1200 stations changing channels, not counting several hundred going off the air.

 

- Trip

[jroepcke51]

As I said, it won't be as neat and tidy as I stated. The estimates range from 400 to 1200 stations changing channels, not counting several hundred going off the air.

 

- Trip

Has the list of channels that are interested been released yet? For locals, I use an over the air and I am concerned about losing some channels.

[Fraydog]

That is partly why this 600 MHz incentive auction has Bad Idea Jeans written all over it.

 

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/bad-idea-jeans/n9937

 

And that also is why I hope it fails spectacularly.  Throwing copious amounts of mobile spectrum into sort of but not really a free market does not solve the problem.

 

Here are solutions.  Force all people onto tiered data plans.  FTC, for mobile, "unlimited" or "zero rated" data is a mirage.  It is like an addictive drug for addled morons.  Be honest, providers -- tell people, for example, that you cannot stream TV for hours per day every day.  Pay for what you use.

 

Or FCC and Congress, get serious.  Screw capitalism -- it has failed American society in this industry.  Stop the ungodly expensive war mongering overseas, and use that money to build a goddamn national fiber network, which will support wired broadband and small cells.  Take control of the infrastructure, just like roads and schools.  But let many, many providers sell over the top services.

 

There is your competition.  It does not require 600 MHz, 700 MHz, 800 MHz, 1600 MHz, 1700+1200 MHz, 1900 MHz, 2300 MHz, 2600 MHz, etc., as mobile spectrum divided somehow among basically four operators.  I probably am forgetting some spectrum.  Because this already is growing ridiculous.

 

AJ

 

 

So being like China is going to be the cure to our mobile ills? Even China doesn't have one state run mobile telecom provider, it has three. Look at countries in Europe that had government telephone systems like in the UK and Germany - their governments eventually got out of that business and privatized those systems. If anything, the proliferation of mobile systems accelerated the demise of most of the government run telecom systems.  

 

Free market systems decide the fate of unlimited data - and if anything is going on, it is showing that unlimited plans properly managed with correct prioritization survive. Even the Death Star is bringing theirs back in conjunction with DirecTV subscriptions. Now if we want the great compromise, it would be ensuring that there is one system for 5G services. Instead of potentially having three like Verizon being in with the Korean and Japanese system (DoCoMo) of 5G, Sprint throwing in for 5G with the Chinese system, and T-Mobile throwing in with the European system, with AT&T being a wild card but probably going toward Europe, the US could ensure that the mistakes of the 2G and 3G systems don't repeat themselves.  

 

Personally I wish that the US would have been able to throw in with the EMEA zone for band plans but that would have been too difficult with the various military uses of spectrum here. 

[WiWavelength]

So being like China is going to be the cure to our mobile ills? Even China doesn't have one state run mobile telecom provider, it has three. Look at countries in Europe that had government telephones systems like in the UK and Germany - their governments eventually got out of that business and privatized those systems. If anything, the proliferation of mobile systems accelerated the demise of most of the government run telecom systems.  

 

Free market systems decide the fate of unlimited data - and if anything is going on, it is showing that unlimited plans properly managed with correct prioritization survive. Even the Death Star is bringing theirs back in conjunction with DirecTV subscriptions. Now if we want the great compromise, it would be ensuring that there is one system for 5G services. Instead of potentially having three like Verizon being in with the Korean and Japanese system (DoCoMo) of 5G, Sprint throwing in for 5G with the Chinese system, and T-Mobile throwing in with the European system, with AT&T being a wild card but probably going toward Europe, the US could ensure that the mistakes of the 2G and 3G systems don't repeat themselves.

 

Ryan, reread my post.  Understand the difference between a monopoly and one public/private infrastructure operator, then hundreds of over the top providers.

 

We do not simultaneously build multiple, parallel roads to the same locations.  FedEx and UPS, for example, are common carriers.  But they do not build their own private roads.  That is insanity.  And that is what I have been harping on for years now.

 

As for "unlimited" mobile data, forget the free market, f@#k the free market.  In the short term, capitalist companies will sell anything to attract customers, even if that product is not sustainable.  Stats show that "unlimited" mobile data -- in the current system -- is not sustainable.  Give people an inch, they take a mile the first year, then 10 miles the next year.

 

So, you want "unlimited" mobile data?  We need a national fiber network to every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse, and doghouse.  The capitalist operators never are going to build that in this country.  The shareholder return would be massive but would take decades to recoup the CAPEX.  No good for the hedge fund "bros."

 

AJ

[Fraydog]

Ryan, reread my post.  Understand the difference between a monopoly and one public/private infrastructure operator, then hundreds of over the top providers.

 

We do not simultaneously build multiple, parallel roads to the same locations.  FedEx and UPS, for example, are common carriers.  But they do not build their own private roads.  That is insanity.  And that is what I have been harping on for years now.

 

As for "unlimited" mobile data, forget the free market, f@#k the free market.  In the short term, capitalist companies will sell anything to attract customers, even if that product is not sustainable.  Stats show that "unlimited" mobile data -- in the current system -- is not sustainable.  Give people an inch, they take a mile the first year, then 10 miles the next year.

 

So, you want "unlimited" mobile data?  We need a national fiber network to every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse, and doghouse.  The capitalist operators never are going to build that in this country.  The shareholder return would be massive but would take decades to recoup the CAPEX.  No good for the hedge fund "bros."

 

AJ

 

The British Post Office and Deutsche Post were indeed, by every measure, government run post offices that also ran telecommunications. That is very similar to what you are calling on.  Key difference is the government builds out infrastructure and other companies pay to use it. Even still, if we have a single telecommunications infrastructure buildout, how do we ensure that the government is running it properly? I can see lots of issues with how we build our roads, and from my perspective the government in this country usually doesn't build the roads to last compared to what other societies do. I wouldn't say the US Interstate system is built to the same spec as the Autobahn, for example.  

 

Secondly, what I have always called for on unlimited plans isn't really unlimited in the truest sense. It is unlimited for most consumers but there are mechanisms to ensure that people aren't, for example, using those plans to replace land based access. 22GB limits to high speed are enough for 99% of smartphone users but also ensure that smartphone access isn't a replacement for home Wi-Fi connected to a cable modem, for example. Going to tiered plans is going to just be a total example of milking customers - I thought the whole reason to go to tired plans was to aid consumers, not milk more money out of them. Then again the hedge fund "bros" would probably love getting rid of any sort of unlimited plans if overages became the gold standard for every provider. The hedge fund bros are the ones who usually love Verizon and AT&T due to their fat dividend payouts and tend to be cool on T-Mobile and hate Sprint. Overages are the fuel for the fat dividend payouts in the Duopolistic side of the US mobile industry. That's a fact. 

 

Now perhaps "all you can eat" would be a better term for unlimited plans. That's certainly a fair point. However I don't think the US has to get rid of all smorgasbords because some people get fat at them. Same goes for wireless data. There isn't a day I don't regret shedding off my Verizon unlimited plan. That was such a dumb thing to do on my part.  Even tiered plans, for those who don't want to pay a premium for all you can eat, shouldn't be a green light to milk overages. Tiered plans can get slowed down to slow speeds like 256k once one eats the tiered data. It shouldn't be a full out overage fest once one goes over. 

 

That said, people also have to stop paying for dividend fattening tiered overage plans. Myself included. 

[Fraydog]

Finally, on having a national fiber broadband network, I'm all for it. That said, I have fiber running not far from me, as a matter of fact, right across the road. The economics of it, for a whole neighborhood, didn't end up working out. That's for a line running to a nearby business that was heavily government subsidized already. I would be paying a gigabyte for about $70 if I could have got Google's pricing. That's what I pay for my 100 Mbps connection right now on the existing cable infrastructure in my neighborhood right now. That 100 Mbps makes it really hard to ever sell fiber here, that's what most of the neighbors have as well. Overall, money talks and it didn't talk enough for our neighborhood to get it. Now as pricing for fiber comes down, maybe the fiber provider can be able to do individual installs in the future. That said, by that time, the cable provider will probably have more fiber in the ground as well and be able to offer faster speeds by a 3 or 4 times magnitude.

 

I don't know of any uses I have other than the occasional speed test that taxes the entire 100 Mbps allotment, for what it is worth. Maybe downloading goes faster in the background like for software updates so the capacity of the network isn't swallowed up as long. As far as video, anything I have goes well under that 100 Mbps allowance. 

[Arysyn]

I think perhaps a good idea as a compromise between unlimited data plans and tiered data plans, is to merge them while still lowering the per gb data price and having an overage option at that lowered per gb data price if the consumer wants an uncapped speed.

 

What could happen, is the starter rate for a line without discounts for extra lines, is $35 monthly per line at 5gb of uncapped speed data, including the option of additional uncapped speed data for around $1-$3 per gb, or unlimited data at a capped speed of 3mbps which can be turned on/off. If turned on, unlimited data at the speed cap is used. If turned off, uncapped speed at per gb data rates apply. There needs to be an app installed by the carrier using this pricing model that shows an always on notification (when the device is turned on) which shows the option on/off, in order to avoid any mistaken setting.

 

There really needs to be less scarcity in wireless, which I'm against any notion of hindering it because it just so happens the current technology and spectrum limitations prohibit heavy usage. I believe wireless carriers ought to be given more spectrum at less cost, and yes even at the cost of broadcasters though I'm not going to argue about it. Wireless should be less finite, though not infinite. I also believe if unlimited stays around, the data speed will need to be capped to avoid congestion, overcrowding, etc. If carriers had more spectrum they could do this with better results than T-Mobile has with their Binge-On service. Furthermore, with carriers not having to spend huge amounts of dollars at spectrum auctions by being provided spectrum for less cost, though with more, stricter provisions of usage, they'll have more money to spend on densification, which will be one of the provisions, along with making sure the spectrum is being utilized - no spectrum squatting.

[Trip]

Has the list of channels that are interested been released yet? For locals, I use an over the air and I am concerned about losing some channels.

 

You're in Albuquerque, according to your profile information.  The FCC has announced that no stations need to be bought in Albuquerque.

 

But the list of participants in the auction is confidential.  Stations that "win" and go off air or move to VHF will be published immediately after auction, but non-winning participants are kept confidential for at least two years.

 

- Trip

[jroepcke51]

You're in Albuquerque, according to your profile information. The FCC has announced that no stations need to be bought in Albuquerque.

 

But the list of participants in the auction is confidential. Stations that "win" and go off air or move to VHF will be published immediately after auction, but non-winning participants are kept confidential for at least two years.

 

- Trip

Thank you

[newyork4me]

 

 

Or FCC and Congress, get serious.  Screw capitalism -- it has failed American society in this industry.  Stop the ungodly expensive war mongering overseas, and use that money to build a goddamn national fiber network, which will support wired broadband and small cells.  Take control of the infrastructure, just like roads and schools.  But let many, many providers sell over the top services.

 

AJ

 

 

Yea, that'll work well. /sarcasm

 

Our public schools are underperforming, with places like LA public schools trying for 50-60% graduation rates. Our public roads are literally crumbling before our eyes. 

 

Meanwhile, our private schools are a beacon of success for college preparation and our toll roads are generally well maintained.

 

But don't let facts get you down for your Bernie love-fest rally later today. 

[WiWavelength]

Yea, that'll work well. /sarcasm

 

Our public schools are underperforming, with places like LA public schools trying for 50-60% graduation rates. Our public roads are literally crumbling before our eyes. 

 

Meanwhile, our private schools are a beacon of success for college preparation and our toll roads are generally well maintained.

 

But don't let facts get you down for your Bernie love-fest rally later today. 

 

Blah, blah, blah.  You are throwing out tons of red herrings, not even addressing my points about national broadband network construction -- in what effectively is and should be a natural monopoly.  Nevertheless, I will indulge you.

 

Yeah, those private schools work well for the rich -- those who can afford to pay private school tuition.  Regardless, most public schools are fine.  The people are the problem.  The rich and/or religious do not want to fund secular public schools.  On the flip side, uneducated people should stop having many, if any children.

 

Toll roads?  Seriously?  They still are public roads.  Just some are operated by private entities.  But what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?  If "public roads are literally crumbling before our eyes," that is due to obstructionist legislators who want to defund as much as they can as evidence that government does not work.  What is the Libertarian alternative?  I build and maintain a 100 ft stretch of toll road in front of my yard?  

 

Anyway, you can take your conservative, anti government Republican/Libertarian/Tea Party blather and stick it where the sun don't shine.  Also, I am not a Bernie Sanders supporter, by the way.

 

AJ

[bigsnake49]

Yea, that'll work well. /sarcasm

 

Our public schools are underperforming, with places like LA public schools trying for 50-60% graduation rates. Our public roads are literally crumbling before our eyes. 

 

Meanwhile, our private schools are a beacon of success for college preparation and our toll roads are generally well maintained.

 

But don't let facts get you down for your Bernie love-fest rally later today. 

 

You know, we have publicly owned toll roads. The crumbling infrastructure is not because of the federal government but because of state or local government incompetence or misuse using interstates as local commuter roads. For example Houston 24-laning (12 lanes on each side) of I-10. The federal government provides all the funds and the local state government is the one that actually contracts for the work. 

 

Both of my kids graduated from public schools, took AP classes and went to college at prestigious colleges. It's what the parents and the kids put in their education that determines their outcome. I think the UC system does pretty well and so does University of Michigan or UNC or UVA or University of Texas. 

[Arysyn]

Public education for the most part is a sham. Billions of dollars get spent on what keeps continuosly failing year after year, yet the politicians keep throwing more money into it and catering to teacher unions' demand for more pay.

 

To be clear, I  live in an upper middle-class suburban area near Chicago. I experienced horrific treatment/bullying throughout my 7th and 9th grade school years, but not by other students. Rather, by teachers and administrators who tried forcing their will against my physical needs for a self-contained class environment, as my medical doctors noted to them verifying my inability to physically be mainstreamed. What transpired is a very long story I won't go into here as it'll require several paragraphs long explanation to detail everything that happened to me.

 

Long story short though, I was badly discriminated for my disability, forced to "dropout" as the public school refused to accomodate me (this was back in 1997-1998 before the tougher laws were passed to better protect students from this kind of discrimination, though sadly it still happens). The fault also is with my mother and her family for not taking action against the school (I wanted to), as they've been protective of my aunt who has been a teacher's aid there ever since not wanting to risk her losing her job.

 

I mention this, because I am definitely biased against public schooling from my own situation, though I do see how others have been hurt by the public school system too, which from that I'e given this topic a lot of thought. The answer I believe is less forced social integration where students are focused mainly on social/team building, rather than individualistic skills. I'm defeinitely a supporter of home schooling, online schooling, and tax credits for private education instead of forcing taxpayers to keep funding failing public education.

 

If my parents for instance were more caring about my future rather than pushing me aside, if they would have sent me to private schooling, the school would have an incentive to see that I was accommodated and got equal access to education. Private education is much better that way, as there is competition to make sure their students do well. Public education barely gives a damn, while public education teachers around here where I live make around $100,000 and up every year, yet still complain about needing more money. So, I don't empathize/sympathize with them at all while they make that much money with such poor results and yet discriminate against their students, etc.  

[modplan]

I think the UC system does pretty well and so does University of Michigan or UNC or UVA or University of Texas. 

 

UNC had fake classes for decades. Not exactly a shining beacon of integrity and higher learning, but I'll give you the other 3.

[WiWavelength]

UNC had fake classes for decades. Not exactly a shining beacon of integrity and higher learning, but I'll give you the other 3.

 

Not an excuse, but those classes were abused largely by "student athletes" -- a drop in the bucket among the student populace.  As a KU man and a Kansan, I am fond of both Dean Smith and Roy Williams.  The state of Kansas has seeded UNC.  Dean is from Kansas and played at KU.  Roy built his name at KU.  This NCAA investigation may not end well for their legacies, though.

 

UNC is a good public institution.  However, I agree that it does not quite rank alongside those other public universities.  Overall academically, the top state schools (in no particular order) are Michigan, Cal, UCLA, Virginia, and Texas.  Some of that is my opinion, but my day job is in higher ed.

 

AJ

[bigsnake49]

UNC had fake classes for decades. Not exactly a shining beacon of integrity and higher learning, but I'll give you the other 3.

 

For its athletes.

[bigsnake49]

Public education for the most part is a sham. Billions of dollars get spent on what keeps continuosly failing year after year, yet the politicians keep throwing more money into it and catering to teacher unions' demand for more pay.

 

To be clear, I  live in an upper middle-class suburban area near Chicago. I experienced horrific treatment/bullying throughout my 7th and 9th grade school years, but not by other students. Rather, by teachers and administrators who tried forcing their will against my physical needs for a self-contained class environment, as my medical doctors noted to them verifying my inability to physically be mainstreamed. What transpired is a very long story I won't go into here as it'll require several paragraphs long explanation to detail everything that happened to me.

 

Long story short though, I was badly discriminated for my disability, forced to "dropout" as the public school refused to accomodate me (this was back in 1997-1998 before the tougher laws were passed to better protect students from this kind of discrimination, though sadly it still happens). The fault also is with my mother and her family for not taking action against the school (I wanted to), as they've been protective of my aunt who has been a teacher's aid there ever since not wanting to risk her losing her job.

 

I mention this, because I am definitely biased against public schooling from my own situation, though I do see how others have been hurt by the public school system too, which from that I'e given this topic a lot of thought. The answer I believe is less forced social integration where students are focused mainly on social/team building, rather than individualistic skills. I'm defeinitely a supporter of home schooling, online schooling, and tax credits for private education instead of forcing taxpayers to keep funding failing public education.

 

If my parents for instance were more caring about my future rather than pushing me aside, if they would have sent me to private schooling, the school would have an incentive to see that I was accommodated and got equal access to education. Private education is much better that way, as there is competition to make sure their students do well. Public education barely gives a damn, while public education teachers around here where I live make around $100,000 and up every year, yet still complain about needing more money. So, I don't empathize/sympathize with them at all while they make that much money with such poor results and yet discriminate against their students, etc.  

If you think that getting bullied at a public school was bad, try going to a private school full of rich, entitled kids. High school kids are cruel, period.

 

BTW, I went to a rather expensive private boarding school.

[ericdabbs]

Ok lets steer this thread back to discussing the 600 MHz auction.

[Arysyn]

If you think that getting bullied at a public school was bad, try going to a private school full of rich, entitled kids. High school kids are cruel, period.

 

BTW, I went to a rather expensive private boarding school.

 

I didn't get bullied by students, but by teachers and administrators. Big difference actually when the bullies are people with actual power, rather than people just trying to feel powerful not because of a lack of self esteem, but because they hate being ruled by people who actually are just strangers to them.

 

There were a few student bullies in the schools I attended, but I got along with them while they bullied other students. I'm not condoning their behavior, but I got a better understanding by being there witnessing all the madness. Unfortunately, I had to deal with very cruel adults who chose to pick on me when they were suppose to be helping me. That is what ends up ruining lives, not just a year in school.

[Fraydog]

 

 

Toll roads? Seriously? They still are public roads. Just some are operated by private entities. But what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? If "public roads are literally crumbling before our eyes," that is due to obstructionist legislators who want to defund as much as they can as evidence that government does not work. What is the Libertarian alternative? I build and maintain a 100 ft stretch of toll road in front of my yard?

 

AJ

I live in the most prolific of big government states and that state, Illinois, can barely pay its pension obligations and is rapidly crashing toward default. Now before you accuse the recently elected GOP governor of sabotaging the government here, realize the state was already on the edge of default before he was elected. Not much he can do without making people angry.

 

The truth is that roads crumbled terribly here because of a government that didn't have to ever stay in budget.

 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[greenbastard]

For example Houston 24-laning (12 lanes on each side) of I-10. The federal government provides all the funds and the local state government is the one that actually contracts for the work.

And it still gets bad during rush hour. Not as bad as back when it was six lanes only, but it's still bad. People in Katy may as well be living in East San Antonio.

 

Houston would be better off getting rid of their HOV lanes and placing a fast Metro rail line in its place for commuters in The Woodlands, Clear Lake, Sugar Land and the Katy area. Or maybe stricter and harder driving tests for everyone since it seems like any idiot is allowed to drive now and clog up traffic.

[greenbastard]

I didn't get bullied by students, but by teachers and administrators. Big difference actually when the bullies are people with actual power, rather than people just trying to feel powerful not because of a lack of self esteem, but because they hate being ruled by people who actually are just strangers to them.

 

There were a few student bullies in the schools I attended, but I got along with them while they bullied other students. I'm not condoning their behavior, but I got a better understanding by being there witnessing all the madness. Unfortunately, I had to deal with very cruel adults who chose to pick on me when they were suppose to be helping me. That is what ends up ruining lives, not just a year in school.

Having worked at a public HS in the past, the biggest bullies aren't the students, teachers or administrators. No. The biggest bullies were the damn parents!

[PythonFanPA]

So, you want "unlimited" mobile data?  We need a national fiber network to every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse, and doghouse.  

 

AJ

 

Hopefully while they build that out, they can find Dr. Kimball too:

 

[WiWavelength]

Hopefully while they build that out, they can find Dr. Kimball too:

 

Somebody culturally literate is catching my drift.  Bravo, sir.

 

But I think the one armed man is whom they really should be looking for...

 

AJ

[Arysyn]

Having worked at a public HS in the past, the biggest bullies are the students, teachers or administrators. No. The biggest bullies were the damn parents!

 

My former stepmother (my father's ex-wife after my mother) was a Kindergarten teacher for many years and now works at a preschool. She is one of the very few teachers I get along with, as I have some sort of negative aura specifically regarding teachers. There literally seems to be a psychic vibe I have which teachers detect and they've told people around me behind my back to "watch out, that I'm dangerous,etc.", almost as if they are priests encountering Damien Thorne. Anyways, that at least isn't the case with my former stepmother.

 

She had many very difficult experiences with parents, so they certainly are bullies. She complained mostly about them to me up until a point a few years ago when a new administration took over and according to her took out many of the teachers they didn't like through various intimidation tactics, etc. Apparently they did this to her too, so she just decided to quit, despite having worked there for over 20 years. At that point. it seemed these people were her new worse bullies, but then again this was a very specific situation, not something frequent.

 

In my case, despite knowing some other situations where students were badly discriminated by teachers and administrators, this also isn't frequent. Typically at the most, a teacher who doesn't particularly care for a student might lower their grade a bit. maybe scold them more often in class, not giving the same small privileges as others in class, that sort of thing. I've heard more frequently of teachers having problems dealing with parents and vice versa. Usually teachers try to have power over a group, whereas parents mostly don't care about the group, they care about their children getting the best individualized education. Problem is, public schooling isn't about individualized education. There just are too many students teachers have to teach, which is done more practically for them to group students together, to teach socially rather than individually.. Many parents either don't realize this, don't want to admit it, etc., because they have a variety of reasons why this shouldn't happen and that the public school system should pay more attend to individualized needs, which is why homeschooling and private schooling are much better choices for their children to get that individualized attention.

 

In my situation, had the teachers/administrators had me in the self contained class with fewer students where the students are meant to rely more on their books for learning than to a teacher, who in that class was more like a supervisor, then I practically would have been out of their way. I'll never know any logical reason for why they significantly negatively impacted my life, other than my explanation of there being something about me that just pisses them off, a statement made in one of my favorite mini-series movies, Storm of the Century. There seems to be more of that type of feeling between teachers and parents, which seems evident in your statement, greenbastard.