Tmobile looking at Verizon's 700mhz spectrum

[IamMrFamous07]

http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=13221

[transitwatch889]

Interesting move! I like the aggression if true...

[UserDemos]

Would anyone (paging resident spectrum guru AJ) be able to explain the Channel 51 interference and exclusion zones? How does this affect the purchase? Where are the areas affected? Will this prevent T-Mobile from using any of these licenses in the near future (like 1-2 years)? What is the likelihood that they'll purchase other licenses from different companies?

[Nickel]

Would anyone (paging resident spectrum guru AJ) be able to explain the Channel 51 interference and exclusion zones? How does this affect the purchase? Where are the areas affected? Will this prevent T-Mobile from using any of these licenses in the near future (like 1-2 years)? What is the likelihood that they'll purchase other licenses from different companies?

Until channel 51 is gone they won't be able to use the A block in these areas:

[Destroyallcubes]

Until channel 51 is gone they won't be able to use the A block in these areas:

They wont get ride of channel 51 in East Texas, I don't believe, our local NBC affiliate,owns the FOX 51 in Tyler,so They use it to have news on at more than morning midday, 5,6, and 10pm. Now they get a 9pm, and another slot to show news. So if it is like that in other markets than have fun Tmo

[Bob Newhart]

They wont get ride of channel 51 in East Texas, I don't believe, our local NBC affiliate,owns the FOX 51 in Tyler,so They use it to have news on at more than morning midday, 5,6, and 10pm. Now they get a 9pm, and another slot to show news. So if it is like that in other markets than have fun Tmo

 

https://stations.fcc.gov/station-profile/kfxk-tv

 

Looks like that is really channel 31, and their license expires next year.

[Nickel]

They wont get ride of channel 51 in East Texas, I don't believe, our local NBC affiliate,owns the FOX 51 in Tyler,so They use it to have news on at more than morning midday, 5,6, and 10pm. Now they get a 9pm, and another slot to show news. So if it is like that in other markets than have fun Tmo

They also clear channel 51 for 600 MHz which, I feel like a broken record saying this, is going to be a mess.

[Destroyallcubes]

They also clear channel 51 for 600 MHz which, I feel like a broken record saying this, is going to be a mess.

I just think people are stuck with what they have for the time being. They need an overhaul to use unused spectrum. But I do have to say, Tmo does need low frequency spectrum. They need it bad. 

[Destroyallcubes]

https://stations.fcc.gov/station-profile/kfxk-tv

 

Looks like that is really channel 31, and their license expires next year.

Oh wow Didnt even see that. Thanks for the correction

[Destroyallcubes]

https://stations.fcc.gov/station-profile/kfxk-tv

 

Looks like that is really channel 31, and their license expires next year.

The RF 51 is licensed by KCEB, which is related to the CBS 19(rf 18) here. Ends in 2014. Can't they renew when the license  is up?

[Bob Newhart]

The RF 51 is licensed by KCEB, which is related to the CBS 19(rf 18) here. Ends in 2014. Can't they renew when the license  is up?

 

When they were given a second channel for the digital conversion, their license dictated that they give one of them back.

 

Like this one here for KIRO, http://data.fcc.gov/mediabureau/v01/tv/authorization/1115828.pdf

 

I don't know how often they renew them, looks like 5 years. But it looks like a lot of stations decided to keep their new digital channel while having a virtual channel of their old channel. I don't know why, maybe another knows.

[bigsnake49]

The auction will be from Channel 51 on down. Channel 51 will be cleared first or the 600MHz auction will be a complete and utter failure. Lower 700Mhz Block A and to some extent B are adversely affected by the continued presence of Channel 51.

[ericdabbs]

It was pretty much a no brainer than Tmobile was going to try to bid for 700 MHz A block spectrum.  They desperately need low band spectrum to compete with the big 2 and Sprint.  However I don't know what Tmobile's game plan would be given that Verizon's 700 MHz A block spectrum is still limited.  I mean it covers a lot of major markets but still not anywhere near nationwide licenses.

[Nickel]

It was pretty much a no brainer than Tmobile was going to try to bid for 700 MHz A block spectrum.  They desperately need low band spectrum to compete with the big 2 and Sprint.  However I don't know what Tmobile's game plan would be given that Verizon's 700 MHz A block spectrum is still limited.  I mean it covers a lot of major markets but still not anywhere near nationwide licenses.

Plus, if AT&T switches to band 12 like they said, they could buy it, or at least jack up the price for T-Mobile.

[UserDemos]

AT&T isn't switching, they're still just using 700B and C only due to the interference issues. They are just dropping the Band 17 class separation to please the FCC for the Leap acquisition (and it is highly contingent on the lowering of D block power levels along with testing of Band 12 devices on their network (after some software update) from what their policy blog stated). So, AT&T won't make any play for A block licenses. It is just for roaming partner compatibility and general 700 band interoperability. It help T-Mobile a bunch if they do go to Band 12 since it'll increase economies of scale and they can continue to poach AT&T customers who will have compatible handsets (if they go Band 12).

 

Looking at the map, most of the Verizon licenses are in exclusion zones. How does this benefit T-Mobile at all since they won't even be able to deploy them in the major metro areas? Wouldn't it make more sense to buy the rural licenses and speed up VoLTE rollout so they don't have to deploy WCDMA for voice?

Edited November 20, 2013 by UserDemos

[Bob Newhart]

Looking at the map, most of the Verizon licenses are in exclusion zones. How does this benefit T-Mobile at all since they won't even be able to deploy them in the major metro areas? Wouldn't it make more sense to buy the rural licenses and speed up VoLTE rollout so they don't have to deploy WCDMA for voice?

 

TMO already owns lots of rural spectrum that it isn't using at all, just like Sprint.

[WiWavelength]

TMO already owns lots of rural spectrum that it isn't using at all, just like Sprint.

 

T-Mobile and Sprint are *using* their rural spectrum per the dictates of their geographic FCC licenses.  Do I need to explain this to you again for the umpteenth time?

 

Geez, put your money where your whiny mouth is.  Start your own exclusively rural wireless operator, or give it a rest...

 

AJ

[bigsnake49]

AT&T isn't switching, they're still just using 700B and C only due to the interference issues. They are just dropping the Band 17 class separation to please the FCC for the Leap acquisition (and it is highly contingent on the lowering of D block power levels along with testing of Band 12 devices on their network (after some software update) from what their policy blog stated). So, AT&T won't make any play for A block licenses. It is just for roaming partner compatibility and general 700 band interoperability. It help T-Mobile a bunch if they do go to Band 12 since it'll increase economies of scale and they can continue to poach AT&T customers who will have compatible handsets (if they go Band 12).

 

Looking at the map, most of the Verizon licenses are in exclusion zones. How does this benefit T-Mobile at all since they won't even be able to deploy them in the major metro areas? Wouldn't it make more sense to buy the rural licenses and speed up VoLTE rollout so they don't have to deploy WCDMA for voice?

 

They will use the urban licenses for signal penetration inside buildings, not for capacity.

Edited November 20, 2013 by bigsnake49

[UserDemos]

They will use the urban licenses for signal propagation inside buildings, not for capacity.

Just figured out the quote feature on mobile. Yay! Anyway...

 

That's great, but signal inside buildings would be more helpful in a dense urban setting (where these licenses are in exclusion zones). So again, why bother? Just because 600 won't be soon enough? Buy 700A and deploy in urban areas when channel 51 is cleared? Deploy 600 and VoLTE later for rural expansion?

[digiblur]

https://stations.fcc.gov/station-profile/kfxk-tv

 

Looks like that is really channel 31, and their license expires next year.

Oh the fun of virtual channels.. Hate that nonsense. The real fun is when one station moves off one channel to another like say from 9 to 26 to escape the VHF garbage. They keep their 9 as virtual since the area knows that brand. Then another station acquires the freed up 9 license and also calls themselves 9. Then what do you set their virtual channel as since 9 is already taken? Doh!

[digiblur]

When they were given a second channel for the digital conversion, their license dictated that they give one of them back.

 

Like this one here for KIRO, http://data.fcc.gov/mediabureau/v01/tv/authorization/1115828.pdf

 

I don't know how often they renew them, looks like 5 years. But it looks like a lot of stations decided to keep their new digital channel while having a virtual channel of their old channel. I don't know why, maybe another knows.

They kept them since they already built out their DT facilities based on that frequency. Some chose to go back if they snuck by with a STA low power rig and did a hot cut later. So many reasons I could go on and on about.

[bigsnake49]

Just figured out the quote feature on mobile. Yay! Anyway...

 

That's great, but signal inside buildings would be more helpful in a dense urban setting (where these licenses are in exclusion zones). So again, why bother? Just because 600 won't be soon enough? Buy 700A and deploy in urban areas when channel 51 is cleared? Deploy 600 and VoLTE later for rural expansion?

 

Well, there might be doing some risk management. They might think that the price for the same amount of spectrum might be higher at 600Mhz. They mighht think they might not be able to not get any 600Mhz. So a bird in the hand might be better than two in the bush! They could roam on other rural providers in the beginning and then acquire them later.

[Bob Newhart]

They kept them since they already built out their DT facilities based on that frequency. Some chose to go back if they snuck by with a STA low power rig and did a hot cut later. So many reasons I could go on and on about.

 

Makes sense, some in my area went back like KZJO Fox 13, but some here didn't.

[WiWavelength]

Would anyone (paging resident spectrum guru AJ) be able to explain the Channel 51 interference and exclusion zones? How does this affect the purchase? Where are the areas affected? Will this prevent T-Mobile from using any of these licenses in the near future (like 1-2 years)? What is the likelihood that they'll purchase other licenses from different companies?

 

As long as the 600 MHz auction actually occurs, UHF channel 51 probably will not be completely cleared until after the auction.  That makes the timeline for its free and clear use indeterminate.

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

Oh the fun of virtual channels.. Hate that nonsense.

 

Remapped channels are a headache for us RF guys.

 

At the family's vacation home over the weekend, we had one inexplicably broken LNB that prevented reception of the 103° W orbital satellite, which transmits the local affiliate feeds.  I had to jury rig a solution with a UHF antenna so that we could try to pick up the Chiefs-Broncos game OTA.  But I had to go online to double check that the Albuquerque NBC affiliate, KOB, which has long been known for its position on low VHF channel 4, had moved to UHF with the ATSC transition.  Indeed, it had moved its physical channel to UHF channel 26, remapped to virtual channel 4.  And my UHF antenna solution worked.   But the antenna did not pick up the local CBS affiliate, which had moved back to its high VHF channel 13 position, hence my need to confirm the NBC affiliate physical channel had gone UHF.

 

AJ