Legacy Network

[z250kid]

I don't know if this was asked but was there any towers that used fiber instead of crummy T-1s?  T1 is a dying form of data

[jefbal99]

I don't know if this was asked but was there any towers that used fiber instead of crummy T-1s?  T1 is a dying form of data

Perhaps a tower getting a network enhancement/bandaid fix in the last year might have gotten AAV rather than additional T1s, but that is the exception rather than the rule.

[Deval]

I don't know if this was asked but was there any towers that used fiber instead of crummy T-1s?  T1 is a dying form of data

 

It is safe to assume that 99% of the existing legacy towers did not have fiber/coax/etc.

[Serious]

How often or not are towers upgraded without backhaul installed? Ive noticed the sites here slow to EVDO speeds during the day and then 20+ Mb at night.

 

 

One would really think T-1s on an LTE tower would be a no no.

[digiblur]

How often or not are towers upgraded without backhaul installed? Ive noticed the sites here slow to EVDO speeds during the day and then 20+ Mb at night.

 

 

One would really think T-1s on an LTE tower would be a no no.

 

T1s wouldn't support the LTE so the site would only be 3g accepted at that point.

[Serious]

T1s wouldn't support the LTE so the site would only be 3g accepted at that point.

 

 

Interesting then I wonder what the source of the problem is. Not trying to Hijack this thread but I noticed this starting early this week after some new sites when online.

 

I've seen some unusual issues that I dont know what to make of such as strong RSRP but poor SNR, dropping LTE only a few hundred feet from the tower etc.

 

 

Thanks for the quick reply.

[Mobilesolutions]

Well LTe sites are all over accepted and legacy 3G is still running along side with T1s, of course the LTe connection has fiber or microwave .

[Mobilesolutions]

Interesting then I wonder what the source of the problem is. Not trying to Hijack this thread but I noticed this starting early this week after some new sites when online.

 

I've seen some unusual issues that I dont know what to make of such as strong RSRP but poor SNR, dropping LTE only a few hundred feet from the tower etc.

 

 

Thanks for the quick reply.

Even if a site has fiber Sprint is still paying for a circuit. Usually 20/50mbps but that totally depends on the metro fiber availability.

[Serious]

Even if a site has fiber Sprint is still paying for a circuit. Usually 20/50mbps but that totally depends on the metro fiber availability.

 

 

Ignore me just realized I started connecting to a different tower now. This coupled with the one at my place of work that is barely functioning on the north sector I thought this was a more widespread issue.

[halcyoncmdr]

How often or not are towers upgraded without backhaul installed? Ive noticed the sites here slow to EVDO speeds during the day and then 20+ Mb at night.

 

 

One would really think T-1s on an LTE tower would be a no no.

 

 

Part of that could easily be explained by usage. A single LTE upgraded tower in a suburban area may be setup to broadcast a signal approx 2 miles out (I am simplifying it quite a bit, but for the sake of argument, we'll go with it). Now, there may be an additional 2-3 towers within range of your location, but they aren't upgraded yet. Every user with an LTE-capable phone will be picking up that signal since it is the only LTE signal available. That tower may be handling 3-4x as much usage as it is intended to (just like Sprint's legacy 3G network currently wasn't designed for the data usage on it currently). As those other nearby towers are upgraded and come online, it gets a bit better as the usage is now spread out over more towers so each one isn't doing as much work on its own. Once all of the towers are upgraded, you'll get the average post-NV speeds Sprint intends.

 

Sprint isn't going to pay more money up front during deployment to either get even faster backhaul to compensate for the initial slowness due to site overload, or to try and allocate additional LTE carriers on a tower (if spectrum is even available for it) that will need to be removed later once surrounding sites are upgraded. It isn't financially or logistically feasible to do this with ~39,000 towers nationwide.

[shockerengr]

There also could be instancea during the initial rollout where there are hiccups in the service causing slowdown..... I noticed a few of them in my area where speeds dropped to evdo slow for a few days before fixing themselves

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[bucdenny]

Even if a site has fiber Sprint is still paying for a circuit. Usually 20/50mbps but that totally depends on the metro fiber availability.

Where is your source for 20-50Mbps. Thought I saw someone posted they deploying min 100Mbps per site.

[Mobilesolutions]

Where is your source for 20-50Mbps. Thought I saw someone posted they deploying min 100Mbps per site.

Where is your source for 20-50Mbps. Thought I saw someone posted they deploying min 100Mbps per site.

I have the best sources imaginable. Yes the idea would be 100mbps at every site but its not feasible in a lot of places.

[bucdenny]

I have the best sources imaginable. Yes the idea would be 100mbps at every site but its not feasible in a lot of places.

 

Why only 20/50Mbps?? They can do 50/50Mbps which will cost around $1400/month.  Legacy sites average 6xT1s which cost about that much.

[Mobilesolutions]

Why only 20/50Mbps?? They can do 50/50Mbps which will cost around $1400/month.  Legacy sites average 6xT1s which cost about that much.

 

I know some areas that are low traffic 100mbps may not be justifyable. Also some remote areas that are not microwave fed it may just not be feasible to run that capacity. And whattttttttt I hope your not paying 1400 for a 50/50 circuit. I hardly pay more than that for dedicated gigabit.

[bucdenny]

I know some areas that are low traffic 100mbps may not be justifyable. Also some remote areas that are not microwave fed it may just not be feasible to run that capacity. And whattttttttt I hope your not paying 1400 for a 50/50 circuit. I hardly pay more than that for dedicated gigabit.

 

That is the cost here in San Diego from AT&T and Cox.  Have delivered 50/50Mbps to several clients.  Maybe cheaper for Sprint since they ordering wholesale bulk.

[Mobilesolutions]

That is the cost here in San Diego from AT&T and Cox.  Have delivered 50/50Mbps to several clients.  Maybe cheaper for Sprint since they ordering wholesale bulk.

 

It really depends on the location.  In towns with many metro fiber companies it is much easier often to get large capacity to a given location; the problem comes when there is a lack of diversity for internet providers. 

[halcyoncmdr]

It really depends on the location.  In towns with many metro fiber companies it is much easier often to get large capacity to a given location; the problem comes when there is a lack of diversity for internet providers. 

 

So, the majority of the US, thanks to oligopolies in much of the country? Or outright monopolies approved by local governments years and years ago?

 

I think this sums it up perfectly really:

[MrZorbatron]

Even if a site has fiber Sprint is still paying for a circuit. Usually 20/50mbps but that totally depends on the metro fiber availability.

From what I read, MINIMUM fiber capacity to a NV site is 120Mbps, and that isn't sufficient for full functionality.  Fully loaded would be a bit over 100 between the three sectors for each LTE frequency, 10Mbps between the three sectors per carrier for EVDO, with at least 2 EVDO carriers, 1x voice capacity, and management overhead etc.

 

It's possible they will try to get away with less out in the middle of nowhere, but I can't see less than 68 Mbps being practical.  68 Mbps also happens to be the smallest microwave link they have registered with FCC.  Fiber is cheap now, relatively speaking.  The cost difference is so small that it's not worth worrying about going cheap on backhaul.

 

This means to ideally supply a site with both bands of LTE would total around 260 Mbps.

 

LTE 1900 + 800 = 225Mbps

EVDO 1900 * 3 ch = 28.8Mbps

1xA 1900 * 3 = 4Mbps.

1xA 800 * 1 = 1.3Mbps

 

Additional carriers of any sort would add to this requirement.

 

Now think of little old T1 with 1.54 Mbps...  Great for one 1xRTT carrier for all three sectors and that's about it.  Want to feed the above site with T1s?  That'll be 169 bonded T1 lines, totaling 4056 bonded channels, or in other words, 8112 wires using conventional T1s.

[digiblur]

Your numbers are based on the provider not overselling.  I don't know of any that don't. 

[Mobilesolutions]

 

 

 

This means to ideally supply a site with both bands of LTE would total around 260 Mbps.

 

 

That sounds like the perfect world. We aren't there yet i promise.  No carrier has 260mbps at even a majority of its footprint.  Yes in a lot of places fiber is readily available .  Sounds ideal though .

[MicroLampart]

Is it possible to have new back haul on the old pre-NV equipment?, I'm asking because I got lately pretty good pings (52-95) but no speed improvement at all, still around 70 kbps?

If it is possible, why wouldn't they update to LTE too If everything is in place already? (3G excepted 4 month ago but not live yet).

[moosemanmoo]

Is it possible to have new back haul on the old pre-NV equipment?, I'm asking because I got lately pretty good pings (52-95) but no speed improvement at all, still around 70 kbps?

If it is possible, why wouldn't they update to LTE too If everything is in place already? (3G excepted 4 month ago but not live yet).

I have also noticed sites that perform like this. Keep in mind that there are often two completely independent teams of contractors that handle the legacy and the NV equipment and infrastructure.

 

It's entirely within the realm of possibility that the site in question has recently received a few more T1s but is suffering from some sort of airlink bottleneck.

 

It's also my understanding that LTE is broadcasted from individual towers as soon as technically possible, while the NV equipment's EVDO/1x is inactive and left to the legacy equipment (usually backhaul as well) until the geographic area is sufficiently upgraded to allow for smooth handoffs between sites. 

[Boosted20V]

I have also noticed sites that perform like this. Keep in mind that there are often two completely independent teams of contractors that handle the legacy and the NV equipment and infrastructure.

 

It's entirely within the realm of possibility that the site in question has recently received a few more T1s but is suffering from some sort of airlink bottleneck.

 

It's also my understanding that LTE is broadcasted from individual towers as soon as technically possible, while the NV equipment's EVDO/1x is inactive and left to the legacy equipment (usually backhaul as well) until the geographic area is sufficiently upgraded to allow for smooth handoffs between sites. 

 

That is definitely not the ALU approach. Ericsson and Samsung do things much differently, however.