Comments related to the NV Running List Thread

[pezasied]

I think there's going to be soonish

[lynyrd65]

We announced Sprint's NYC Market as the next city this evening. Make sure to join us for our live chat Sunday evening where will announce our next city!

 

Somehow, I knew they would get it.

 

I really don't understand why WiMax areas should get LTE first. They already have a fast network, in my area we have super slow 3G most of the time. Sure we have 3 wimax protection sites but they run at low power and barely reach my window if I position my phone just right.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Somehow, I knew they would get it.

 

I really don't understand why WiMax areas should get LTE first. They already have a fast network, in my area we have super slow 3G most of the time. Sure we have 3 wimax protection sites but they run at low power and barely reach my window if I position my phone just right.

 

Maybe they get it b/c Clear's hardware is already on the towers there so its one less thing that has to be worked in later since the whole point is having the multimodal tower across all freq. I'd think if Clear's WiMax is not there then the hardware for the 2.5GHz band isn't either on the tower and in turn would just be one more thing they would have to add(cost wise) along with possibly having to co-ordinate with Clearwire to get them to add it to the tower. Otherwise wouldn't Clear have to come back through later and add said hardware and get up with the partners or Sprint to have ti hooked into the NV basestation?

[Duffman]

I don't think Sprint is using Clear's towers for LTE.

[JAndThatsIt]

First post to the site. Just wanted to say your info is top notch. You need to have a Tip us link somewhere on here.

 

I found this article and thought your readers would like it and your sources could potentially elaborate for us.

 

http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/sprint-poised-to-bring-faster-service-to-napa/article_d9d7896c-5c46-11e1-9e0c-001871e3ce6c.html

[NYC126]

The link for the nyc info is not working.

[lrmcgarvey]

Looks like Sprint is hitting the large markets first. Going for population coverage.

 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[lynyrd65]

Maybe they get it b/c Clear's hardware is already on the towers there so its one less thing that has to be worked in later since the whole point is having the multimodal tower across all freq. I'd think if Clear's WiMax is not there then the hardware for the 2.5GHz band isn't either on the tower and in turn would just be one more thing they would have to add(cost wise) along with possibly having to co-ordinate with Clearwire to get them to add it to the tower. Otherwise wouldn't Clear have to come back through later and add said hardware and get up with the partners or Sprint to have ti hooked into the NV basestation?

 

That's what I hear but I don't know that I believe it. There are Clear 4G protection sites in areas sprint doesn't serve like Billings, Montana.

 

Edited February 24, 2012 by lynyrd65

[pyroscott]

Clearwire setup and Sprint Network Vision setup are completely different. Sprint was going to use the network vision work to set up Lightsquared's network for them, but they are dead in the water. Clearwire will still be up and running in those cities until 2015.

 

As far as which cities Sprint is picking for Network Vision... I'm sure they have a reason for it, maybe they are tackling the biggest cities first so they can boost phone coverage. I know that Network Vision looks like it is purely data, but in this day, people will not tolerate dropped calls, so they need to bolster capacity and dead spots to keep customers.

 

And it is obvious that Wimax no longer sells. It has been downgraded in customer eyes to being in a class with HSPA+ and although T-Mobile is throttled, it is still unlimited. Sprint needs LTE up and running in the big cities to draw customers.

 

From what I have seen so far, Sprint's buildout of Network Vision buildout makes a heck of a lot more sense than Clearwire's.

[pyroscott]

Also, does anyone know if wimax in any of the areas that Sprint is upgrading first is over capacity and slowing down?

 

And to add to my last post, Every one of the 11 cities that have been announced by Sprint or S4GRU are within the top 30 US metro areas by population, including 3 of the top 5 and 7 of the top 10. I bet we see the rest of the top 10 in the next couple weeks.

[ericdabbs]

Any article relating to NYC? Would like to know more details on it. Also where can I find the details about the live chat on Sunday?

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Clearwire setup and Sprint Network Vision setup are completely different. Sprint was going to use the network vision work to set up Lightsquared's network for them, but they are dead in the water. Clearwire will still be up and running in those cities until 2015.

 

As far as which cities Sprint is picking for Network Vision... I'm sure they have a reason for it, maybe they are tackling the biggest cities first so they can boost phone coverage. I know that Network Vision looks like it is purely data, but in this day, people will not tolerate dropped calls, so they need to bolster capacity and dead spots to keep customers.

 

And it is obvious that Wimax no longer sells. It has been downgraded in customer eyes to being in a class with HSPA+ and although T-Mobile is throttled, it is still unlimited. Sprint needs LTE up and running in the big cities to draw customers.

 

From what I have seen so far, Sprint's buildout of Network Vision buildout makes a heck of a lot more sense than Clearwire's.

 

Reason I said clear and all is bc its not different in the end. They are putting the 2.5GHz freq in NV according to all docs they have out out so less hooking up to the new stations is something that wouldn't req Sprint related ppl there it makes sense to go ahead and do towers with the Clear hardware already there bc that results in one less trip by a Sprint person to the tower imho. Less they would let Clear come and add the hardware for 2.5GHz on said towers on their own and hook into the basestation...

 

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

[BenChase7]

Any article relating to NYC? Would like to know more details on it. Also where can I find the details about the live chat on Sunday?

 

Just show up to the chat room around 1030 or 1100pm (MST) on Sunday night... that seems to be the routine, anyway.

[S4GRU]

I really don't understand why WiMax areas should get LTE first. They already have a fast network, in my area we have super slow 3G most of the time. Sure we have 3 wimax protection sites but they run at low power and barely reach my window if I position my phone just right.

 

Not defending the rollout selections, because I would have done it differently. Just to clarify, Protection Sites do not run on reduced power. If you aren't getting a very good signal, it is most likely due to the propagation characteristics of 2500. Also, protection sites typically don't have engineered downtilt to maximize penetration characteristics. They typically broadcast out straight 90 degrees from the antenna to maximize coverage and enhance the coverage area reported to the FCC. Those sites were not designed for superior customer use, but to appease the FCC Minimum Coverage requirements.

 

Maybe they get it b/c Clear's hardware is already on the towers there so its one less thing that has to be worked in later since the whole point is having the multimodal tower across all freq. I'd think if Clear's WiMax is not there then the hardware for the 2.5GHz band isn't either on the tower and in turn would just be one more thing they would have to add(cost wise) along with possibly having to co-ordinate with Clearwire to get them to add it to the tower. Otherwise wouldn't Clear have to come back through later and add said hardware and get up with the partners or Sprint to have ti hooked into the NV basestation?

I don't think Sprint is using Clear's towers for LTE.

 

Sprint's LTE is not co-located with Clear's LTE, per se. Sprint is installing 800/1900 CDMA/LTE at every one of their Network Vision sites. Clear is installing its TD-LTE on select sites of their own in markets they already have service. Additionally, Sprint has worked out an arrangement where Clearwire will come and deploy additional TD-LTE at Sprint NV sites upon request, as needed to supplement Sprint's LTE capacity. Sprint's multi-modal setup will certainly help host Clearwire TD-LTE where needed, but Sprint is not counting on putting it on all 38k sites. I'd be willing to guess that Clearwire will not be at more than one third of all Sprint sites 24 months after NV is complete.

 

First post to the site. Just wanted to say your info is top notch. You need to have a Tip us link somewhere on here.

 

I found this article and thought your readers would like it and your sources could potentially elaborate for us.

 

http://napavalleyreg...1871e3ce6c.html

 

Thanks for the compliments and A tip section is a good idea. I will consider that in future updates. Until then, feel free to e-mail at s4gru_@_herronweb_.com There are no underscores in the real e-mail address.

 

The link for the nyc info is not working.

 

Fixed. There was an issue with the publishing. Sorry.

 

Also, does anyone know if wimax in any of the areas that Sprint is upgrading first is over capacity and slowing down?

 

There are some areas of WiMax congestion. I was told last year that Clearwire was considering adding a 4th WiMax carrier in some select locations. But I don't believe that ever was implemented. Also, their retail model has been pulled and their retail subscriber numbers are slowly dropping. Now with the obituary of WiMax written, I would be very surprised if Clearwire does any additional WiMax capacity upgrades.

 

Any article relating to NYC? Would like to know more details on it.

 

There was a technical delay in publishing. The article is up now...http://s4gru.com/ind...sionlte-market/

 

Reason I said clear and all is bc its not different in the end. They are putting the 2.5GHz freq in NV according to all docs they have out out so less hooking up to the new stations is something that wouldn't req Sprint related ppl there it makes sense to go ahead and do towers with the Clear hardware already there bc that results in one less trip by a Sprint person to the tower imho. Less they would let Clear come and add the hardware for 2.5GHz on said towers on their own and hook into the basestation...

 

2500 was pulled from Network Vision on October 7th. No NV documents issued since then have referenced 2500 at all. It was actually pulled much earlier than that, but that's when the public knew about it. If you look at the NV Drawings for Lawrence, KS, they were printed before October 7th and they do not include 2500 at all.

 

Just show up to the chat room around 1030 or 1100pm (MST) on Sunday night... that seems to be the routine, anyway.

...where can I find the details about the live chat on Sunday?

 

Sunday may be slightly earlier. I will announce in the Bulletin Board, Facebook, Google+ and Twitter when we go live. Only 20 members will be permitted in. Be early to catch a seat!!!

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Sprint's LTE is not co-located with Clear's LTE, per se. Sprint is installing 800/1900 CDMA/LTE at every one of their Network Vision sites. Clear is installing its TD-LTE on select sites of their own in markets they already have service. Additionally, Sprint has worked out an arrangement where Clearwire will come and deploy additional TD-LTE at Sprint NV sites upon request, as needed to supplement Sprint's LTE capacity. Sprint's multi-modal setup will certainly help host Clearwire TD-LTE where needed, but Sprint is not counting on putting it on all 38k sites. I'd be willing to guess that Clearwire will not be at more than one third of all Sprint sites 24 months after NV is complete.

 

 

 

 

 

2500 was pulled from Network Vision on October 7th. No NV documents issued since then have referenced 2500 at all.

 

...

 

Did they announce this change with pulling the 2500 from NV? (Edit: actually that sounds like the lil conference date they had on NV last year...)

 

Why was this done specifically?

Edited February 24, 2012 by Sgt. Slaughter

[S4GRU]

Did they announce this change with pulling the 2500 from NV?

 

Why was this done specifically?

 

Do you not recall the huge uproar when Sprint all but wrote out Clearwire in the October 7th conference? They not only threw Clearwire out of Network Vision, they virtually were throwing them to the wolves and nearly bankrupted the company.

 

Also, where 2500 was shown in early NV schematics, it was not a contract saying that 2500 was definitely going in Network Vision. It was just demonstrating the multi-modal capabilities of hosting other spectrum. Sprint wanted to include Clearwire in NV if possible, but they were never going to pay Clearwire's way. It was always up for negotiation. It just never was negotiated in. By October 7th, things got so bad between Sprint and Clearwire, they both announced they were going it alone with LTE without each other.

 

I have never seen a real engineering or planning document with 2500 on Network Vision. Only early schematics.

 

- Robert

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Do you not recall the huge uproar when Sprint all but wrote out Clearwire in the October 7th conference? They not only threw Clearwire out of Network Vision, they virtually were throwing them to the wolves and nearly bankrupted the company.

 

Also, where 2500 was shown in early NV schematics, it was not a contract saying that 2500 was definitely going in Network Vision. It was just demonstrating the multi-modal capabilities of hosting other spectrum. Sprint wanted to include Clearwire in NV if possible, but they were never going to pay Clearwire's way. It was always up for negotiation. It just never was negotiated in. By October 7th, things got so bad between Sprint and Clearwire, they both announced they were going it alone with LTE without each other.

 

I have never seen a real engineering or planning document with 2500 on Network Vision. Only early schematics.

 

- Robert

 

yeah i remember it I edited my post saying that date sounded familiar. lol

 

I completely understood not mentioning them b/c at the time they didn't know and you can't start saying Clear moving to LTE b/c then any WiMax sales from then on would of been killed so it was smart to just keep saying they were supporting WiMax till 2015, to not get an uproar from customers...

 

And yes the early schematics are what I was referring to btw. I never took the whole PC as a way that Clearwire wasn't involved in NV at all. Completely besides the whole LTE thing, I always thought that since on the same tower that when NV cabinets were installed at those towers that the 2.5GHz from Clear would be routed into those cabinets b/c of the early schematics shown. Makes no sense at all to NOT do that regardless of WiMax/LTE or whatever.

[S4GRU]

yeah i remember it I edited my post saying that date sounded familiar. lol

 

I completely understood not mentioning them b/c at the time they didn't know and you can't start saying Clear moving to LTE b/c then any WiMax sales from then on would of been killed so it was smart to just keep saying they were supporting WiMax till 2015, to not get an uproar from customers...

 

And yes the early schematics are what I was referring to btw. I never took the whole PC as a way that Clearwire wasn't involved in NV at all. Completely besides the whole LTE thing, I always thought that since on the same tower that when NV cabinets were installed at those towers that the 2.5GHz from Clear would be routed into those cabinets b/c of the early schematics shown. Makes no sense at all to NOT do that regardless of WiMax/LTE or whatever.

 

NV sites are spaced apart based on 1900 propagation characteristics. Even if Clearwire was on every NV tower, their coverage would look like a bunch of islands covering a city. They would still need to come back in and infill between NV towers.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

NV sites are spaced apart based on 1900 propagation characteristics. Even if Clearwire was on every NV tower, their coverage would look like a bunch of islands covering a city. They would still need to come back in and infill between NV towers.

 

True. Wasn't really trying to say they would come back and add the 2.5 on every site, though I know it kinda read like that. Really just meant that in future Clear would be coming to some sites to add coverage in general. Regardless it all depends on the following being true or not.

 

So the when on a tower that already has the 2.5GHz from Clear it will NOT be run into that same NV cabinet when they do the upgrade at sites?? If this is a NO then, my whole thought on them doing WiMax towers/towers in most popular areas is out the window.

 

In all honesty it doesn't matter a bit anyway as the WiMax locations likely coincide with the most population dense areas anyway and thats likely how they are hitting this so they can come out the gates quick and say they cover Xmillion people already with the fewest locations done.

Though I am interested in the 2.5GHz being run in the NV cabinet or not b/c if not then it means the advantages of NV will not translate to that band at all ever and I wonder why they would make that decision...

Edited February 24, 2012 by Sgt. Slaughter

[S4GRU]

True. Wasn't really trying to say they would come back and add the 2.5 on every site, though I know it kinda read like that. Really just meant that in future Clear would be coming to some sites to add coverage in general. Regardless it all depends on the following being true or not.

 

So the when on a tower that already has the 2.5GHz from Clear it will NOT be run into that same NV cabinet when they do the upgrade at sites?? If this is a NO then, my whole thought on them doing WiMax towers/towers in most popular areas is out the window.

 

In all honesty it doesn't matter a bit anyway as the WiMax locations likely coincide with the most population dense areas anyway and thats likely how they are hitting this so they can come out the gates quick and say they cover Xmillion people already with the fewest locations done.

Though I am interested in the 2.5GHz being run in the NV cabinet or not b/c if not then it means the advantages of NV will not translate to that band at all ever and I wonder why they would make that decision...

 

I think the biggest issue with Clearwire participating in Network Vision...is who's going to pay for it? Sprint doesn't have the funds to add $3-$4 Billion to its NV costs to include Clearwire on every NV tower. And Clearwire has even less money. That's what started the whole bru-ha-ha between Sprint and Clearwire (so I've heard). Sprint really wanted Clearwire on board in NV, but not willing to give them a free ride. Clearwire wouldn't accept anything less than a free ride and held their spectrum hostage. Hesse called their bluff and divorced from them publicly on October 7th. Then they both paid dearly by Wall Street and tech media attacks until they both relented and kissed and made up.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

I think the biggest issue with Clearwire participating in Network Vision...is who's going to pay for it? Sprint doesn't have the funds to add $3-$4 Billion to its NV costs to include Clearwire on every NV tower. And Clearwire has even less money. That's what started the whole bru-ha-ha between Sprint and Clearwire (so I've heard). Sprint really wanted Clearwire on board in NV, but not willing to give them a free ride. Clearwire wouldn't accept anything less than a free ride and held their spectrum hostage. Hesse called their bluff and divorced from them publicly on October 7th. Then they both paid dearly by Wall Street and tech media attacks until they both relented and kissed and made up.

 

yeah i get the whole not on every tower thing, but the NV cabinets being installed on the current WiMax towers. Will 2.5 be run through those switching cabinets or will they stay in their separate cabinet like they are now?

[S4GRU]

yeah i get the whole not on every tower thing, but the NV cabinets being installed on the current WiMax towers. Will 2.5 be run through those switching cabinets or will they stay in their separate cabinet like they are now?

 

Sprint CDMA and Clearwire WiMax are only co-located together on less than 40% of WiMax sites. I would guess that WiMax would remain separate, but I cannot say with certainty until I see NV Site Drawings where a WiMax site also exists.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Sprint CDMA and Clearwire WiMax are only co-located together on less than 40% of WiMax sites. I would guess that WiMax would remain separate, but I cannot say with certainty until I see NV Site Drawings where a WiMax site also exists.

 

Okay thanks!

 

Would love to see any kind of near "official" diagrams on how its wired up if thats at all near possible in the future...

[kustu82]

When they do work at a tower is there a certain sequence that it will be done. Just curious, because when I was driving to the airport today (I live in KC) I noticed several towers that had the radio behind the antenna, but there was an antenna right next to it without a radio directly behind it.

 

I remember from the Lawrence drawings this looked like the case like it was done in phases. So my guess these towers are ready they just have to turn on the new antennas and remove the old, or am I completely missing the mark.

[Kevster1321]

They have been doing fiber backhaul upgrades on cell site right now. my question is the ones that aren't showing upgrades (network.sprint.com) on the map they will still get the upgraded backhaul when NV hits.