T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[Fraydog]

WiFi Calling is a game that all the carriers should have played a long time ago. General subscriber access to WiFi under strict carrier controls is often times going to be a better solution than small cells everywhere.

[maxsilver]

"General subscriber access to these customized, on premises Femtocell "Airrave" has to be Sprint's end game. Hesse is not the altruist that many believe him to be -- he and the "sunshine (#1)" executive team have plenty of ulterior motives up their sleeves."

 
 
Supplying a device, for your home/office, at little-to-no cost, to improve service -- This is seriously the same thing Sprint has done for years. 
 
I don't know how this can be construed as having ulterior motives. And if someone does, then surely Sprint must have equally ulterior motives, since they've done nearly the same exact thing for many years now.
 
#1 - It's not okay to match that insult on the Sprint side, for obvious reasons. Especially now.

[MacinJosh]

AT&T and the 3G microcell is another example here. They could share connections with other AT&T subscribers, but customers had the option for privacy if they wanted to limit it to just your own phones.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk

[Fraydog]

AT&T charged $149 for their junk. That sure as hell isn't what I would refer to as "altruistic."

 

Of course Legere's motive is business oriented. Altruists usually make poor Fortune 500 CEO's.

[WiWavelength]

"General subscriber access to these customized, on premises Femtocell "Airrave" has to be Sprint's end game. Hesse is not the altruist that many believe him to be -- he and the "sunshine (#1)" executive team have plenty of ulterior motives up their sleeves."

 

 

 

Supplying a device, for your home/office, at little-to-no cost, to improve service -- This is seriously the same thing Sprint has done for years. 

 

I don't know how this can be construed as having ulterior motives. And if someone does, then surely Sprint must have equally ulterior motives, since they've done nearly the same exact thing for many years now.

 

#1 - It's not okay to match that insult on the Sprint side, for obvious reasons. Especially now.

 

Sorry, maxsilver, if you are likening the Sprint Airave type devices to the T-Mobile Wi-Fi router, you are full of magenta colored shit.  At the very least, consider the following differences:

• Sprint Airave type devices have been divvied out based upon need and not free to all subs.  The T-Mobile Wi-Fi router is available to all subs -- for free.
• Sprint Airave type devices have no peripheral function.  The T-Mobile Wi-Fi router is useful to handsets, tablets, computers, TVs, gaming systems, etc.  I recently paid $200 for my primary 802.11ac router.  Hmm...

Once again, this is Legere and company playing pink Santa, giving away goodies, leading a pied piper brigade, poking and prodding the bigger operators -- all in the hope that somebody swoops in and buys out T-Mobile.  That is ulterior, incarnate.

 

AJ

[Fraydog]

If we want to call out T-Mobile for giving out routers, we have to do that with the cableco's like Comcast as well as the landline divisions of Verizon and AT&T. Anything that improves the state of WiFi I am for. Most of the WiFi routers "given away" by VZ and AT&T are crap, as are most of the ones I've seen from Comcast. This is an 802.11 ac router by Asus. Pretty impressive from an equipment stand point.

 

If the motive was purely a sale something would be already arranged with the French pornographer. I'll propose a third theory - Legere thinks this will aid his business picking up consumers that stay over the long term.

[lilotimz]

If we want to call out T-Mobile for giving out routers, we have to do that with the cableco's like Comcast as well as the landline divisions of Verizon and AT&T. Anything that improves the state of WiFi I am for. Most of the WiFi routers "given away" by VZ and AT&T are crap, as are most of the ones I've seen from Comcast. This is an 802.11 ac router by Asus. Pretty impressive from an equipment stand point.

 

If the motive was purely a sale something would be already arranged with the French pornographer. I'll propose a third theory - Legere thinks this will aid his business picking up consumers that stay over the long term.

Iirc it's mostly likely an asus ac68u. That's one of the top of the line routers.

 

My friend has one and an asus, ac87u and a Motorola sb6183...talk about overkill.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[maxsilver]

Ok, let's do this. This appears to be the appropriate thread for it, let's break this down a bit :

 

Sprint Airave type devices have been divvied out based upon need and not free to all subs.  The T-Mobile Wi-Fi router is available to all subs -- for free.

 
Sprint Airave is free to the vast majority of subs, and is widely distributed. Sprint even set up a special customer team to distribute them, as your already well aware - http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/entry-88-sprint-has-a-new-airave-product-out-that-are-free-to-customers-with-indoor-coverage-problems/

The only reason Sprint has to have any loose checks in place is the licensed spectrum use. As soon as Sprint's Wifi calling works widely, we might see them switch to using Wifi routers too. The hardware is slightly cheaper and there's no licensed interference to worry about -- in general, it's a "cleaner" approach than microcell/femtocell options.
 

I recently paid $200 for my primary 802.11ac router. Hmm...

 
Er...so? Sprint Airaves retail for about the same ~$200 as the AC router T-Mobile hands out. - https://ting.com/shop/Airave25

Sprint hands these out for free to the same "well qualified" customers that T-Mobile hands out routers to.

Obviously Sprint pays much less than that per unit, but T-Mobile pays less per unit for their AC routers too, so... not seeing a huge difference on price.
 

Sprint Airave type devices have no peripheral function.  The T-Mobile Wi-Fi router is useful to handsets, tablets, computers, TVs, gaming systems, etc.

 
Very true, absolutely. But is this supposed to be a bad thing?
 
Shame on T-Mobile, for providing a device that works well with almost everything? Shame on T-Mobile, for investing in open infrastructure for the past eight years, so that they don't have to use a proprietary device, with spectrum license restrictions and required GPS reception?
 

Once again, this is Legere and company playing pink Santa, giving away goodies, leading a pied piper brigade, poking and prodding the bigger operators -- all in the hope that somebody swoops in and buys out T-Mobile.  That is ulterior, incarnate.

 
That's just a lot of FUD. There's nothing T-Mobile could do to please you, by your own logic.

If Legere raises rates or charges any extra for anything, you'll just say he's artificially pumping up revenue to make the financials look good for a sale of the company, or that it was a "bait and switch". (Even though Sprint also raises rates occasionally)
 
If Legere lowers rates, or gives anything away for free, you'll just say he's "playing Santa" and "giving away goodies" for a sale. (Even though Sprint also lowers rates or gives things away occasionally -- I still have my free 'Sprint Tab 3' right here, which according to Sprint, was also a $200+ valued device)
 
- - -

At the root of this, you've implicitly decided everything T-Mobile does (regardless of actual intent) is a sure sign of a sale of T-Mobile, and that the sale is a bad thing. Your tying a lot of artificial FUD to that. But that's a really big assumption.

SoftBank bought Sprint, it might be the best thing that's ever happened to the company. They have a purpose, clarity and a focus now, more than ever before. It's not a leap to see a similar outcome if someone buys out T-Mobile (if Iliad did, for instance).

Sure, Dish is annoying. But they aren't the only folks after T-Mobile, and it's not certain they'd buy the company. It's also not certain that a Dish buyout would wreck or hurt T-Mobile in any way.

Why all this fear that T-Mobile might find a buyer for it's business? Sprint did, and it's been pretty good so far.

[centermedic]

 

 

Sprint Airave is free to the vast majority of subs, and is widely distributed. Sprint even set up a special customer team to distribute them, as your already well aware - http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/entry-88-sprint-has-a-new-airave-product-out-that-are-free-to-customers-with-indoor-coverage-problems/

 

 

That's just a lot of FUD. There's nothing T-Mobile could do to please you, by your own logic.

 

If Legere raises rates or charges any extra for anything, you'll just say he's artificially pumping up revenue to make the financials look good for a sale of the company, or that it was a "bait and switch". (Even though Sprint also raises rates occasionally)

 

If Legere lowers rates, or gives anything away for free, you'll just say he's "playing Santa" and "giving away goodies" for a sale. (Even though Sprint also lowers rates or gives things away occasionally -- I still have my free 'Sprint Tab 3' right here, which according to Sprint, was also a $200+ valued device)

 

 

I would challenge what was written about the availability of the Airaves. I was unable to receive one and was told that I was in as good coverage area when I clearly was not. The Airave  ended up being a bandaid. It had a potential for a wide scale femtocell rollout but was never realized.

You also can't accuse AJ with being hypercritical without acknowledging that he actually had something positive to say about T-Mobile in his original post. In fact, he has often made positive remarks about T-mo along with well reason criticism.Seems folks just pay attention to the negative.

[maxsilver]

I would challenge what was written about the availability of the Airaves. I was unable to receive one and was told that I was in as good coverage area when I clearly was not. The Airave  ended up being a bandaid. It had a potential for a wide scale femtocell rollout but was never realized.

You also can't accuse AJ with being hypercritical without acknowledging that he actually had something positive to say about T-Mobile in his original post. In fact, he has often made positive remarks about T-mo along with well reason criticism.Seems folks just pay attention to the negative.

 

 

That's 100% fair. I've never seen anyone personally denied an Airave. But I'm sure folks who are in areas with better network coverage probably get turned away (licensed spectrum is a pain for consumer devices)

 

Some folks are a little too nice to CS. If you "ask" for an Airave, you get a "no". If you (calmly, kindly, respectfully) attempt to cancel your service, the Airave rules quickly get relaxed very quickly.

 

I'm not picking on AJ specifically, and I know he knows his technical stuff (I've read it). But this particular statement is still ridiculous. I still see no way someone can claim Sprint handing out Airaves is "good", but T-Mobile handing out AC routers is bad -- or otherwise claim that these two actions are meaningfully different.

 

These two are nearly identical, and the only meaningful difference is that T-Mobile's method uses no licensed spectrum, so they don't have to have any requirements about who gets them, or where they get placed.

[S4GRU]

Yeah, I'm confused. AJ is being rather supportive of the Tmo router idea and maxsilver is still arguing with him as if he is not. It may be worth going back and rereading his comments.

 

If you think about it, he is saying that the router idea from Tmo is good and Sprint hasn't done anything like it. The Airaves are not routers. Interestingly, they won't even function without a router.

[centermedic]

That's 100% fair. I've never seen anyone personally denied an Airave. But I'm sure folks who are in areas with better network coverage probably get turned away (licensed spectrum is a pain for consumer devices)

 

Some folks are a little too nice to CS. If you "ask" for an Airave, you get a "no". If you (calmly, kindly, respectfully) attempt to cancel your service, the Airave rules quickly get relaxed very quickly.

 

I'm not picking on AJ specifically, and I know he knows his technical stuff (I've read it). But this particular statement is still ridiculous. I still see no way someone can claim Sprint handing out Airaves is "good", but T-Mobile handing out AC routers is bad -- or otherwise claim that these two actions are meaningfully different.

 

These two are nearly identical, and the only meaningful difference is that T-Mobile's method uses no licensed spectrum, so they don't have to have any requirements about who gets them, or where they get placed.

I'm not so sure he said it was bad. In fact he stated that he was intrigued by the possibilities. He simply said its not altruistic which has resulted in several people responding "of course not". I suspect he was addressing those who believe Legere is the second coming.

[maxsilver]

I guess I'm confused then too, because I was responding specifically to " if you are likening the Sprint Airave type devices to the T-Mobile Wi-Fi router, you are full of magenta colored shit."

 

That reads pretty strongly against to me. But I could easily be misinterpreting the phrase "full of magenta colored shit".

[S4GRU]

I guess I'm confused then too, because I was responding specifically to " if you are likening the Sprint Airave type devices to the T-Mobile Wi-Fi router, you are full of magenta colored shit."

 

That reads pretty strongly against to me. But I could easily be misinterpreting the phrase "full of magenta colored shit".

I interpreted it as he is saying that there is little comparison to Tmo's new router and Sprint's Airave. And I agree with him. He is not defending the Airave in any way...you are. In fact, it almost feels like Freaky Friday and you two have switched places.

 

 

"Switch places!!!"

[JeffDTD]

I was denied an airrave due to the coverage maps showing excellent coverage, years ago. Calls dropped -outside- .

 

What Tmo is doing with these routers is smart. Motivations for doing it are obvious. While "tmo just wants me to be happy!!" falls somewhere in the order of reasons, its a lower card in the stack than the reasons presented by AJ. And if hes wrong, prove him wrong with fact.

 

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

[WiWavelength]

If the motive was purely a sale something would be already arranged with the French pornographer. I'll propose a third theory - Legere thinks this will aid his business picking up consumers that stay over the long term.

 

The sale does not have to be to Iliad -- though I drew that obvious connection earlier in this thread.  It is just that the Wi-Fi router program would create some unexpected synchronicity with Free Mobile.

 

Regardless, all of this "un-carrier" handing out of candy is a short term ploy to increase subscriber numbers.  I do not know how anyone can rationally see it any other way.  It is not sustainable long term.  T-Mobile is spending more and more per sub to acquire and retain.  In that way, Magenta is like the Denver Broncos, which are doubling down on Peyton Manning's rapidly closing window, spending accordingly like there is no tomorrow.  In another season or two, Manning will be gone, left behind will be a salary cap graveyard, and the Broncos will be awful.  That, too, is T-Mobile.  Live for today, then stick the new management with the bill down the road.

 

AJ

[coorsleftfield]

If this tmo WiFi router can be flashed to dd-wrt I'm in for one, even at $100

[WiWavelength]

AJ is being rather supportive of the Tmo router idea...

 

Another benefit of the T-Mobile Wi-Fi router is incentivized offloading.  This is something that S4GRU staff has long advocated.  Many "unlimited" data zealots see no reason to use Wi-Fi at home.  But give them a $200 802.11ac router for free, and they are more likely to offload.

 

Now, that said, the uptake statistics for this Wi-Fi router program will be interesting.  Much of the T-Mobile subscriber base is subprime.  Many may not pass the credit check for the Wi-Fi router.  Better yet, they may not have home broadband -- they rely on T-Mobile for their sole Internet connection.

 

AJ

[lordsutch]

For what it's worth, they're selling it to anyone outright for $99, at least on the website. So the question you have to ask yourself is whether saving $100+ on a top-end router is worth letting T-Mobile folk leach some of your bandwidth for voice calls on occasion.

[WiWavelength]

I suspect he was addressing those who believe Legere is the second coming.

Better yet, they may not have home broadband -- they rely on T-Mobile for their sole Internet connection.

 

Did I say "sole" Internet connection?  I meant "soul" Internet connection.

 

And when do the WWJLD bracelets arrive?

 

 

AJ

[reedacus25]

For what it's worth, they're selling it to anyone outright for $99, at least on the website. So the question you have to ask yourself is whether saving $100+ on a top-end router is worth letting T-Mobile folk leach some of your bandwidth for voice calls on occasion.

There's no universal T-Mobile SSID. Won't happen.

 

No need to worry about people all up in your WiFiz.

 

Only thing separating this from a normal router is secret sauce QoS baked into the firmware.

 

It's a steal of a deal for a great router. Nothing more, nothing less.

[WiWavelength]

So the question you have to ask yourself is whether saving $100+ on a top-end router is worth letting T-Mobile folk leach some of your bandwidth for voice calls on occasion.

 

Give a penny.  Take a penny.  That is my philosophy for on premises small cells with subscriber provided backhaul.  We can all benefit.

 

But, as I understand it, that is not the currently implemented strategy with the T-Mobile Wi-Fi router.  It is not open to general subscriber access.  It is locked down via WPA authentication, just like any other Wi-Fi router.

 

AJ

[travismheim]

 

 

The Airaves are not routers. Interestingly, they won't even function without a router.

The airave 2.5 does work without a router, it has a two port switch behind its own internal router. They actually ask you to install it directly behind the broadband modem. Installing it this way allows its QoS to prioritize its voice packets over data on your broadband connection, according to the instructions that were provided with mine.

 

Airave's aren't given out like T-Mobile is handing out the routers. To get one for free you now need to have four lines on your account, and they will also check how many dropped calls you have had and how coverage is in your area.

 

The free routers are cool, but I still prefer a femtocell solution. When I have family over their Sprint phones will automatically connect without me needing to mess with their phones. I have mine limited to only accept connections from our phones. It also works with all Sprint phones, not just new models. I can't see everyone wanting to go buy a new phone just to utilize WiFi calling.

 

The only problem I have ever had was when I ran the test modem on my nexus and it would hang on to really weak fringe LTE and not connect without manually selecting 3G network mode.

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

[WiWavelength]

If this tmo WiFi router can be flashed to dd-wrt I'm in for one, even at $100

 

That defeats the purpose.  Reports indicate that this is just an Asus 802.11ac router running T-Mobile firmware to prioritize QoS for packet switched voice.  Flashing alternative firmware is beside the point -- unless you are just trolling for a free router.

 

AJ

[jbom]

The sale does not have to be to Iliad -- though I drew that obvious connection earlier in this thread.  It is just that the Wi-Fi router program would create some unexpected synchronicity with Free Mobile.

 

Regardless, all of this "un-carrier" handing out of candy is a short term ploy to increase subscriber numbers.  I do not know how anyone can rationally see it any other way.  It is not sustainable long term.  T-Mobile is spending more and more per sub to acquire and retain.  In that way, Magenta is like the Denver Broncos, which are doubling down on Peyton Manning's rapidly closing window, spending accordingly like there is no tomorrow.  In another season or two, Manning will be gone, left behind will be a salary cap graveyard, and the Broncos will be awful.  That, too, is T-Mobile.  Live for today, then stick the new management with the bill down the road.

 

AJ

 

Where did you read T-Mobile is spending more per sub to acquire and retain? Not every customer who switches to T-Mobile comes with a $350 ETF. Quite the contrary.

 

They are all trying to add customers, growth is never going to be what it was. Even Verizon is running promos, they gave away free tablets on 2 year contract and only had 340k in net post paid phone adds. 

 

Besides, giving data away is trivial compared to slashing the cost of the plans. In the 2Q 2014 report T-Mobile's cost of services was $1.4B for the three months ending June 30. Selling, general and administrative is $2.151B vs $1.847B Q2 2013. And the more customers they add the more spread out their costs become per user. 

 

For what it's worth, they're selling it to anyone outright for $99, at least on the website. So the question you have to ask yourself is whether saving $100+ on a top-end router is worth letting T-Mobile folk leach some of your bandwidth for voice calls on occasion.

 the router is not an open spot where any T-Mobile customer can place calls.