LTE-A, Carrier Aggregation, '5G', etc...

[caspar347]

We believe Verizon is installing a ton of small cells throughout the Columbus Ohio metro. Amcferrin90 put a spectrum analyzer up to one and saw their frequency, but no Verizon users that I have asked have been able to get on them yet

Not to be pedantic, but what do you define as a ton? I'm legitimately curious about how much effort they're putting in to this. 

[kyle_4thousand]

Not to be pedantic, but what do you define as a ton? I'm legitimately curious about how much effort they're putting in to this.

I would guess within the majority of all high density urban venues, and stadiums and large office complexes within the immediate vicinity

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6 on the Now Network

[dkyeager]

Not to be pedantic, but what do you define as a ton? I'm legitimately curious about how much effort they're putting in to this.

We have not mapped them, but we have seen at least twenty without really looking, with more and more showing up all the time. They are mounted on utility poles in neighborhoods and industrial parks. Installed by a one person crew with a utility bucket truck.  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t0qot9w0jt2ix40/AADlqMcroKEsSQq9JTrcba_Ga?dl=0.  Amcferrin90 recalled they were using 736 to 756Mhz [746.5Mhz - 755.5Mhz, band 13 as per attachments below from amcferrin90].  I have seen them within a mile of a Verizon site.  They may be to be aiming for metro-wide coverage.  They generally don't need meters and run off of the city light circuits with a permit due to their low power requirements.  We also seem to have some variation with this type of equipment.

Edited December 7, 2014 by dkyeager

[WiWavelength]

Amcferrin90 recalled they were using 736 to 756Mhz, band 13.

 

Band 13 downlink is 746-756 MHz, not 736 MHz.

 

AJ

[dkyeager]

Thanks.  I wanted to post a link to amcferrin90's work but have not found it yet. Amcferrin90 sent it to me: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8viExQFcZdaNjBjUEY1WE05UUE&usp=sharing

 

.

Edited December 7, 2014 by dkyeager

[caspar347]

We have not mapped them, but we have seen at least twenty without really looking, with more and more showing up all the time. They are mounted on utility poles in neighborhoods and industrial parks. Installed by a one person crew with a utility bucket truck. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t0qot9w0jt2ix40/AADlqMcroKEsSQq9JTrcba_Ga?dl=0. Amcferrin90 recalled they were using 736 to 756Mhz, band 13. I have seen them within a mile of a Verizon site. They may be to be aiming for metro-wide coverage. They generally don't need meters and run off of the city light circuits with a permit due to their low power requirements.

Wow! 20 without even looking for them? I hope Sprint ends up doing this with B41.

[dkyeager]

Wow! 20 without even looking for them? I hope Sprint ends up doing this with B41.

Yeah, typically sitting at a traffic light and you glance around and there is another one. You don't remember it from last time. Added details to some of the above posts. I think I saw one guy putting them up with a ladder. Have been too busy to stop and chat when I have seen installers. limotimz thinks each site should have a reach of about 1 kilometer. Any further info or speculation would be good. Obviously I am wondering if it might be part of their CA strategy.

[centermedic]

Where does VZW have carrier aggregation capable band 13 infrastructure?  Most of it is old, non RRU, Release 8 infrastructure.

 

AJ

I was wondering that myself. Verizons press release was notable for not mentioning an upgrade to release 10.

[milan03]

I was wondering that myself. Verizons press release was notable for not mentioning an upgrade to release 10.

They've announced Carrier Aggregation rollout for 2015, so Release 10 equipment is a must. It'll have to be a selective launch as there is absolutely no way that the entire LTE footprint gets the overhaul that quick.

 

I've been keeping an eye on potential 13+2 CA in NYC as that could be something that existing Cat 4 devices could actually attach to. There are still absolutely no signs of backhaul provisioning boost. Sectors are capped at either 80Mbps or 100Mbps, and three LTE downlink channels (10+20+10MHz) are all competing for that same under provisioned backhaul resource.

[centermedic]

They've announced Carrier Aggregation rollout for 2015, so Release 10 equipment is a must. It'll have to be a selective launch as there is absolutely no way that the entire LTE footprint gets the overhaul that quick.

 

 

I totally get that. What I am saying is that for a press conference that was relatively heavy on tech details I was surprised that they did not specifically mention Release 10 equipment.

[Deval]

A growing number of them (and atts) are Rel 10/11 rip and replaces where they strip the entire legacy site down and rebuild with new Alcatel-Lucent or Ericsson equipment. Typically it's the oldest sites or the highest capacity sites that are being renovated first. 

 

So basically their version of Network Vision?

 

What happens to those sites in terms of customer experience? Site goes down for an hour or two, back up with new equipment broadcasting?

[caspar347]

So basically their version of Network Vision?

 

What happens to those sites in terms of customer experience? Site goes down for an hour or two, back up with new equipment broadcasting?

I think it's a bit longer than an hour or two. The guys I saw here were up there taking down antennas and putting new ones up for about 5 hours at a time. (I should specify that the Verizon stuff is on the second page of the linked thread.)

[lilotimz]

So basically their version of Network Vision?

 

What happens to those sites in terms of customer experience? Site goes down for an hour or two, back up with new equipment broadcasting?

 

Takes about a week or two for the crew I talked to and observed.

 

They completely tore out the old coax jumpers, base stations, 9 antennas etc. Completely decommissioned the site and then pulled up hybrid lines for the AWS RRU + antenna (1) and then good old coax lines from the new base station to second antenna (2) which broadcasts LTE 700 and the CDMA stuff. 

 

6 antennas, 3 sectors, 3 radios, and 1 new base station. 

[Deval]

Takes about a week or two for the crew I talked to and observed.

 

They completely tore out the old coax jumpers, base stations, 9 antennas etc. Completely decommissioned the site and then pulled up hybrid lines for the AWS RRU + antenna (1) and then good old coax lines from the new base station to second antenna (2) which broadcasts LTE 700 and the CDMA stuff. 

 

6 antennas, 3 sectors, 3 radios, and 1 new base station. 

 

So what happened in the meanwhile for customers? Was the legacy site still up till the last minute?

 

I really am curious to see what the other carriers are doing in terms of their network upgrades. Always good to learn.

[lilotimz]

So what happened in the meanwhile for customers? Was the legacy site still up till the last minute?

 

I really am curious to see what the other carriers are doing in terms of their network upgrades. Always good to learn.

 

Adjacent sight took over with CL850 CDMA and LTE 700 reaching a tad over. There's also a VZW pico cell mounted on a light post in front of the tower that serves a couple clustered industrial buildings. The other side of the road was a local airport which gets connections easily from adjacent sites further away because it's a wide open and flat area.

 

The second crew (from the same company) I found working on it was at a local school tower which had a well used football / soccer stadium right next door. That one removed 6 old antennas and replaced with 6 new but had two RRUS12s per sector this time around. Took about 2 1/2 weeks. A week after they left, Sprints and Samsungs local contractor came by and installed the NV equipment and used the same boom lift the other contractors happily left behind. 

[Deval]

The second crew (from the same company) I found working on it was at a local school tower which had a well used football / soccer stadium right next door. That one removed 6 old antennas and replaced with 6 new but had two RRUS12s per sector this time around. Took about 2 1/2 weeks. A week after they left, Sprints and Samsungs local contractor came by and installed the NV equipment and used the same boom lift the other contractors happily left behind. 

 

I love it, probably scheduled that way to save money.

[milan03]

I totally get that. What I am saying is that for a press conference that was relatively heavy on tech details I was surprised that they did not specifically mention Release 10 equipment.

At this point Release 10 equipment isn't anything to brag about. It's a basic, minimum system requirement for operators that wish to activate LTE-Advanced features on their network.

Also, historically Verizon's never been the most "vocal" operator when it comes to their equipment infrastructure. Their PR loves to dumb it down as much as possible.

[Conan Kudo]

At this point Release 10 equipment isn't anything to brag about. It's a basic, minimum system requirement for operators that wish to activate LTE-Advanced features on their network.

Also, historically Verizon's never been the most "vocal" operator when it comes to their equipment infrastructure. Their PR loves to dumb it down as much as possible.

Getting details out of them is like pulling teeth sometimes...

[lilotimz]

Getting details out of them is like pulling teeth sometimes...

 

That's why I drive right up to the local cell site when there's work going on and talk to contractors who work for them.

 

Who knows what might happen. Maybe you'll even get a mini tour of the leased area and watch / help install the DUS/DULs in the cabinets.

[cyclone]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/press-releases/qualcomm-expands-lte-capabilities-snapdragon-810-add-category-9-carrier-agg

 

Hopefully new phones introduced next year (possible Galaxy S6 and iPhone 6S/6S Plus) will help drive forward Sprint's Spark network with B41 Carrier Aggregation

[WiWavelength]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/press-releases/qualcomm-expands-lte-capabilities-snapdragon-810-add-category-9-carrier-agg

 

Hopefully new phones introduced next year (possible Galaxy S6 and iPhone 6S/6S Plus) will help drive forward Sprint's Spark network with B41 Carrier Aggregation

 

Nope, not the presumed Samsung Galaxy S6 nor the expected iPhone 6S.  The earliest that the Snapdragon 810 (MSM8994) will make it into consumer handsets is sometime in the second half of next year.  An LG G4 and a Samsung Galaxy Note 5 are potential candidates.  And you will not ever find a Snapdragon chipset in an iPhone -- because Apple uses its own ARM based processors.

 

AJ

[cyclone]

Nope, not the presumed Samsung Galaxy S6 nor the expected iPhone 6S.  The earliest that the Snapdragon 810 (MSM8994) will make it into consumer handsets is sometime in the second half of next year.  An LG G4 and a Samsung Galaxy Note 5 are potential candidates.  And you will not ever find a Snapdragon chipset in an iPhone -- because Apple uses its own ARM based processors.

 

AJ

The article states that "The Snapdragon 810 processor with Category 9 support is anticipated to be available to our customers in early 2015" so there is a possible chance Samsung could include it in their new flagship device in a chance to put a one-up on the iPhone 6/6 Plus.

 

I never said the iPhone would incorporate that chip into it although I can see the confusion in my wording. I was merely stating that the technology is being introduced and the big phone makers will be able to release new devices with the Carrier Aggregation capability.

[lilotimz]

The article states that "The Snapdragon 810 processor with Category 9 support is anticipated to be available to our customers in early 2015" so there is a possible chance Samsung could include it in their new flagship device in a chance to put a one-up on the iPhone 6/6 Plus.

 

I never said the iPhone would incorporate that chip into it although I can see the confusion in my wording. I was merely stating that the technology is being introduced and the big phone makers will be able to release new devices with the Carrier Aggregation capability.

''our customers'' = companies like Samsung, LG, HTC, etc who can then start utilizing the finalized commercial products for phones early on in development or not yet in development.

Cat 9 devices will not be out til late 2h 2015.

[davidtm]

The article states that "The Snapdragon 810 processor with Category 9 support is anticipated to be available to our customers in early 2015" so there is a possible chance Samsung could include it in their new flagship device in a chance to put a one-up on the iPhone 6/6 Plus.

 

I never said the iPhone would incorporate that chip into it although I can see the confusion in my wording. I was merely stating that the technology is being introduced and the big phone makers will be able to release new devices with the Carrier Aggregation capability.

Also, 810 is mentioned in some of the M9 rumors.

[IamMrFamous07]

Sprint did say they (in the q2 earning report) were working with Qualcomm to have devices support 3 x 20mhz CA support for early to mid 2015