WSJ: Sprint looking at T-Mobile purchase

[Terrell352]

Im not trying to bash Sprint im just saying the last thing they had that changed the game was the Evo 4G and that was three years ago. Everything since then has been really slow promises. I like that they dont bloatware up there phones like the other carriers and brand there phones but that is novelty. The need to try and innovate a little more. I don't consider vanity numbers innovative.

And this is the problem Sprint faces. When it does take the lead on something and it does not quite work out they get criticized fore ever and a day(remember wimax?). When they take the safe route they get criticized. And when they maintain the one thing that makes them distinctive(unlimited data) they get criticized. It is also disheartening that a member here would criticize Sprint for its comparatively slow LTE roll out. This has been explained ad naseum.

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[centermedic]

Well at least nobody can say you aren't arrogant old man.  

 

T-Mobile and the US industry would be better suited if they tied themselves to DISH.  I'm almost positive we have not heard the last from Dish.  

 

T-Mobile should run from clutches of Sprint at least until they get their stocks up high enough.  

 

You can't demonize AT&T for trying to purchase T-Mobile then turn a blind eye to this.  Sprint paraded for government pity and welfare citing the former would lessen competition with a competitor gone.  Suddenly their tune changes.  

 

Let's see this for what it is:  T-Mobile is kicking @zz right now and Sprint is flopping around like a fish out of water.  Sprint needs nothing more than to kill a competitor. 

There is no easy way to say this but that is pretty narrow minded. The AT&T situation was totally different as it would have created a behemoth of approximately 140 million customers. A combined Sprint/T-mo would be approx 90 million customers. Totally different. Also, to compare the economic performance of Sprint vs T-mo is again apples and oranges. Sprint is building for the long term. T-Mo is looking for a suitor. You cant criticize a Sprint T-mo merger and then turn a blind eye to this. Just to clarify, I am against the merger.

[centermedic]

Sprint would have no reason to keep unlimited data and lower prices if it had the scaleable size, bulk and network size of AT&T or Verizon.  They only do it because they have to right now.  

 

It's obvious that Sprint was never really against "reducing competition," in the AT&T-T-Mo deal despite their pretense.  They were just afraid of being in last place among the top four.  Screw the customer.  

Correction, they were scared of being out of business.

[centermedic]

I agree that Sprint had too keep unlimited because there network was in shambles compared to the big 2 and there is no reason to stay other wise

Just to clarify. Sprint started true unlimited data with Wimax. This was before the network went to hell in a hand basket. Whatever their motivations may be  for keeping it it is clear that even then they were trying to differentiate themselves from the other carriers.

[centermedic]

Wasn't that the point of an all American carrier being swallowed and bowing down to a foreign Japanese billionaire?  Wasn't that the reason they had to buyout Clearwire?  Sprint has a sugar daddy with money  They have all the spectrum in the world; more than any other US carrier.  The only thing holding them back is themselves.  They don't need T-Mobile to compete with AT&T.  That is a poor excuse.

 

A few weeks ago Sprint was the savior.  The untouchable.  Network Vision was going to rule the day in 2012, or 2013 or 2014.  Verizon was supposed to be quaking in her boots because Mr. Son was going to create the best network on earth.  

 

I hope any planned buyout by the Japanese is stopped.  

I agree with this 100%.

[WiWavelength]

I would like to see Sprint offer what T-Mobile does before doing this.

 

And I would like to see evidence that T-Mobile can sustain its cut rate offerings long term.  Will investors be content for T-Mobile to be the way low ARPU operator?

 

AJ

[Destroyallcubes]

Wasn't that the point of an all American carrier being swallowed and bowing down to a foreign Japanese billionaire?  Wasn't that the reason they had to buyout Clearwire?  Sprint has a sugar daddy with money  They have all the spectrum in the world; more than any other US carrier.  The only thing holding them back is themselves.  They don't need T-Mobile to compete with AT&T.  That is a poor excuse.

 

A few weeks ago Sprint was the savior.  The untouchable.  Network Vision was going to rule the day in 2012, or 2013 or 2014.  Verizon was supposed to be quaking in her boots because Mr. Son was going to create the best network on earth.  

 

I hope any planned buyout by the Japanese is stopped.

 

They bought out clear wire and had softbank buy the majority so they could compete. A buyout would just help even out the field, and would make Verizon and ATT get off their asses and do something. Plus, this would be the a way to actually make 3 true national carriers. Otherwise it can only go 3 big ones and one company would be left in the dust and picked up later. T-Mobile or sprint will be merged together or one will fail and be picked up by another in the future.

[jamisonshaw125]

I have to agree. One thing I noted was that a lot of editorials and articles and surprisingly people on this forum, say that sprint is taking forever doing these things and has done nothing really worth while.... I absolutely 100% disagree on the molecular level. I have seen a major improvement in sprints network and I am fairly new to this forum and to Sprint. To say sprint has done nothing is an incredibly wrong statement.

 

They are in the process, and quickly speeding up this process, of completing network vision and improving not just 3G networks, but voice and while adding LTE. That is a gigantic accomplishment IMO. On top of that, they just announced Spark, which promises speeds up to 60 mb download which is incredible (considering my wifi doesn't even get that) and in the future speeds in the gigabit per second range..... also incredible.

 

Criticizing sprint because of their slow rollout, is like criticizing apple for not coming out with a new product but once a year....actually every other year if you count the "s" models and the "retina" models currently replacing existing products.) Regardless, Sprint-SoftBank is making huge accomplishments and I so far am quite satisfied with what I am seeing, and anticipating network visions further advancements. Whether or not tmobile is worth it is still up for debate and after reading 10 pages of this thread, I am leaning more towards the "it might not be as bad as we think" side. Ultimately, sprint will do what is best for the company, whether that is the acquisition of tmobile and it's spectrum, or not. I look forward to the outcome.

 

 

[chris2420]

I don't see why y'all seem to think Unlimited data is a good thing. I basically forces everyone that doesn't use a lot of data to subsidize the people that do. The problem in the US is the big 2 charge a ton for very little data. If you look at our European counterparts they offer data at a much more reasonable rate. EE in the UK offer unlimited talk/text plus 10gb for 53 pounds a month. or 20gb for 58. you couldn't even get 1gb for that amount on verizon or att 

[centermedic]

I don't see why y'all seem to think Unlimited data is a good thing. I basically forces everyone that doesn't use a lot of data to subsidize the people that do. The problem in the US is the big 2 charge a ton for very little data. If you look at our European counterparts they offer data at a much more reasonable rate. EE in the UK offer unlimited talk/text plus 10gb for 53 pounds a month. or 20gb for 58. you couldn't even get 1gb for that amount on verizon or att 

One word. Competition. As long as date rates stay artificially inflated, unlimited will remain an attractive option.

[insurance]

Combine the smaller, yet most aggressive companies in terms to upgrading technologies, and those companies are the most consumer friendly with plan pricing/data usage?  I am neither for/against such a merger at this point, but I don't see a reason to bash it.  Sprint has great spectrum range low/med/high where TMo has great Mid Spectrum and great metropolitan coverage.  I think such a merger may work, and it may be required to actually compete more evenly against the larger 2 companies.

 

I believe I read a article that Hesse is not interested in the 600 auction.  But with TMo purchase of VZW 700 licenses, may be a good compliment.  Who Knows, all speculation at this point, but comparing to Nextel merger seems unfair, like telling the story of how you got a scar, regardless - its in the past.

[chris2420]

One word. Competition. As long as date rates stay artificially inflated, unlimited will remain an attractive option.

Unlimited is still not attractive for the people who use less data if you use 2gb you still pay the same as somebody that uses 10gb. The wireless company will price their unlimited plans more toward the 10gb people than 2gb therefor they pay more 

[Destroyallcubes]

Combine the smaller, yet most aggressive companies in terms to upgrading technologies, and those companies are the most consumer friendly with plan pricing/data usage?  I am neither for/against such a merger at this point, but I don't see a reason to bash it.  Sprint has great spectrum range low/med/high where TMo has great Mid Spectrum and great metropolitan coverage.  I think such a merger may work, and it may be required to actually compete more evenly against the larger 2 companies.

 

I believe I read a article that Hesse is not interested in the 600 auction.  But with TMo purchase of VZW 700 licenses, may be a good compliment.  Who Knows, all speculation at this point, but comparing to Nextel merger seems unfair, like telling the story of how you got a scar, regardless - its in the past.

Well it would work great because it could Expand NV to the T-mobile edge only towers. could bring easy 1x800 to those places until proper back haul arrives, and then turn on LTE and such. That would be the fastest expansion for true nationwide coverage. I could be wrong but That would actually be the fastest way for there to be 3 actual nationwide companies with less roaming. And it would create a more or less equal playing field for the 3

[centermedic]

Unlimited is still not attractive for the people who use less data if you use 2gb you still pay the same as somebody that uses 10gb. The wireless company will price their unlimited plans more toward the 10gb people than 2gb therefor they pay more 

High priced data artificially limits the amount of data being used. I personally believe that all the models showing that the average data usage is x amount are all flawed.. As long as consumers embrace the Verizon and AT&T models then they get what they deserve.

[richy]

Unlimited is still not attractive for the people who use less data if you use 2gb you still pay the same as somebody that uses 10gb. The wireless company will price their unlimited plans more toward the 10gb people than 2gb therefor they pay more 

 

The big two have managed to create a situation whereby people think that the difference between a 2GB a month and a 10GB a month subs is $60+ something a month (previously it would have been $100 a month).  Their pricing is based around keeping their arpu up and selling unlimited voice and texts. I would be very interested in seeing the real figures based on network load and termination charges for voice and data usage. In the early stages of '3g' data (at least in the UK) was sold pretty much at a loss because they had so much spare capacity because nobody was using video calling. As it became popular it was almost too late up up the pricing for data so they kept the base line rental and call costs up. It seems like the reverse is true here in that data is being used as a cash cow to replace falling revenue from calls. 

 

Personally I use somewhere between 13 and 16GB a month. I know this will get Robert throwing stuff at me but in my defense its not on sprints network. I am a good boy and use wifi where possible. Maybe 4GB of that is browsing \ email \ skype voice calls etc. The remainder is VOD. It's actually not much VOD either I know I use more than average but in the broader context I don't see it as extreme usage given the folks out there knocking out 100-300GB+ a month. Certainly over the next few years we should see Sprint \ Vzw and At&T being able to support an average usage level considerably higher. The question is if the pricing will change much! If it wasn't for sprint and tmobile I reckon the big two wouldn't touch their pricing, if anything it would go up.    

[maximus1987/lou99]

And I would like to see evidence that T-Mobile can sustain its cut rate offerings long term. Will investors be content for T-Mobile to be the way low ARPU operator?

 

AJ

TMO is more expensive than Sprint in some cases:

TMO unlimited + monthly smartphone = 50 + 20 + 20 = 90

Sprint (the same plan) = $80

 

TMO 500mb + monthly smartphone = 50 + 20

Sprint 1GB + subsidy = 70

 

On family plans, TMO is slightly cheaper:

TMO (500 mb data, smartphone payment)

2 - 80 + 2*20 = 120

3 - 90 + 3*20 = 150

4 - 100 + 4*20 = 180

 

Sprint (1GB data per line + subsidy):

2 - 70 + 60 = 130

3 - 70 + 60 + 50 = 180

4 - 70 + 60 + 50 + 40 = 220

 

(I know it's not the same amount of data but there's no sprint 500 mb or TMO 1GB. The point is these are the entry level plans)

 

Ok so for family plans, TMO is definitely significantly cheaper.

 

But to your point about the investors: what choice do they have? They know TMO's network cannot justify the prices to match sprint and they also know DT wants to sell and won't invest anymore.

 

So. . . . either the investors accept reality or sell their shares . . . preferably before DT's lockup period expires on Nov 1, 2014 aka the 18-month lockup. However, if DT can find a buyer for its entire stake, it can sell all at once.

 

Hmm . . . I know I'm rambling but here's a thought: Sprint - or Dish ????- could wait until the lockup period expires, at which point there'd be downward pressure on the stock from the 67% about to enter the market.

 

 

[utiz4321]

I don't see why y'all seem to think Unlimited data is a good thing. I basically forces everyone that doesn't use a lot of data to subsidize the people that do. The problem in the US is the big 2 charge a ton for very little data. If you look at our European counterparts they offer data at a much more reasonable rate. EE in the UK offer unlimited talk/text plus 10gb for 53 pounds a month. or 20gb for 58. you couldn't even get 1gb for that amount on verizon or att

In the uk you have limited lte options. In part that is the result of regulation but part is the low revenue generated by having 4 carrier compete over 60 million or so users (which is the result of regulation). But the pricing is good.

[richy]

In the uk you have limited lte options. In part that is the result of regulation but part is the low revenue generated by having 4 carrier compete over 60 million or so users (which is the result of regulation). But the pricing is good.

LTE rollout in the UK was and is at least partly slowed down by the lack of spectrum. The first LTE network was from EE (iirc) using pretty much the only spare capacity any carrier had. The remainder were waiting for an auction. There wasn't the consumer demand because frankly faux G (dc hspda) was fast enough for most folks needs, not that it stopped people lusting after lte lol. You weren't wrong, but there was a much bigger picture and until the EE thing happened there wouldn't have been any LTE until the governments 800\2600MHz auction which unleashed something like 250MHz for LTE, which in itself took forever due to government & quango dithering plus concerted lobbying efforts.  

[lordsutch]

I think the only way the FCC would approve this merger is if SprinTmobile plays ball on rural broadband and commits to roll out the same national coverage as the Big 2.

 

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[Fraydog]

Also, there's the possibility to divest enough spectrum to Dish that they can eventually build out to be the new 4th player. Would it be easy? No, but it may be the only way Dish can stand long-term as a separate entity.

[Nickel]

Also, there's the possibility to divest enough spectrum to Dish that they can eventually build out to be the new 4th player. Would it be easy? No, but it may be the only way Dish can stand long-term as a separate entity.

I still don't understand Charlie's plan. If he would have tried to play more reasonable, I don't think he would have had a problem getting what he wanted but he got too greedy and made everyone mad, IMO.

[Fraydog]

I still don't understand Charlie's plan. If he would have tried to play more reasonable, I don't think he would have had a problem getting what he wanted but he got too greedy and made everyone mad, IMO.

I think this is about the money, and the spectrum. Yeah if it was merely about Charlie being a dick this wouldn't be a conversation, but money trumps all here.

[GinaDee]

I think this is about the money, and the spectrum. Yeah if it was merely about Charlie being a dick this wouldn't be a conversation, but money trumps all here.

 

Do you know Charlie personally?  Your comments sound like your vitirol for him is personal.  

[Fraydog]

Do you know Charlie personally? Your comments sound like your vitirol for him is personal.

See that Bloomberg Businessweek article I linked to earlier in the thread?

 

I don't have any personal vitriol toward him but he's clearly a very hard person to work with or try to negotiate with. That's well established.

[GinaDee]

Well it would work great because it could Expand NV to the T-mobile edge only towers. could bring easy 1x800 to those places until proper back haul arrives, and then turn on LTE and such. That would be the fastest expansion for true nationwide coverage. I could be wrong but That would actually be the fastest way for there to be 3 actual nationwide companies with less roaming. And it would create a more or less equal playing field for the 3

 

Sprint could upgrade its network without T-Mobile.  Adding T-Mobile to the mix would further delay Sprint's delayed NV rollout 

Edited December 15, 2013 by GinaDee