Verizon turns up the heat with 40mhz AWS Spectrum now live in a few major cities

[tommym65]

Band 25 alone is not enough. Which I think we all agree with.

 

 

Although additional carriers on Band 25 will also make Sprint more competitive, where they can scrape up the bandwidth to do it.

[milan03]

It sounds like Verizon's solution to everything is to just bolt on a new attachment to their existing equipment and let things ride out. It makes things easier and faster, for sure. Just sounds like a duct tape kind of a solution.

And how would you resolve this issue in a timely fashion?

[Terrell352]

Yes thats what mean. I hate it when people say why so we need over 5mbps. If you can strive to be better go for it. In my city metro has silently become much faster on the phones that support tmobile. All of a sudden metro which use to have 1-3mbps on downlink on average is around 10 on average. Which is faster than Verizon and Sprint here and since we pay more we should recieve more. At least thats how I see it.

Sprint doesn't need to be the fastest. They just need to be competitive. Which is probably what you mean. Their Band 41 overlay will make the competitive or better. Band 26 will make the competitive or better. Good solid steps toward the future.

 

Band 25 alone is not enough. Which I think we all agree with.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[S4GRU]

Yes thats what mean. I hate it when people say why so we need over 5mbps. If you can strive to be better go for it. In my city metro has silently become much faster on the phones that support tmobile. All of a sudden metro which use to have 1-3mbps on downlink on average is around 10 on average. Which is faster than Verizon and Sprint here and since we pay more we should recieve more. At least thats how I see it.

The half of consumers that pay attention to the exact speeds of their phone would probably agree with you. The other half just want it to work when they need it and where they need it.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[The Dave]

And how would you resolve this issue in a timely fashion?

I am not familiar with Verizon's equipment or spectrum in the area, it just seems adding another panel to the sector is only a temporary solution and when that gets overburdened, what then? Keep adding more panels? Wouldn't too many panels just cause an additional amount of interference to the sector and degrade signal quality?

[Vette]

The extra panels are only being used in extremely overburdened sectors AFAIK. Verizon is very good at managing their network and keeping it as consistent as they can across the whole country in terms of speed and reliability. Their 700 LTE (or 750, whatever we call that here) is getting very saturated now though (like Sprint's 1900 would be if that's all they were deploying), so they are doing some funky stuff to keep it running well; this includes kicking people down to 3G (I have had that quite a bit actually) and adding more panels and, of course, AWS LTE to really boost capacity.

 

I have no idea about the interference between sectors though.

[Destroyallcubes]

Plenty of reasons. 1. Competition how would it look if in the future Sprint just said we will only provide 4-5 mbps down of unlimited while att, verizon and tmobile all where at 40-60 on average. Even prepaid carriers are pushing 8-15 mbps. Thats like the samsung or apple saying why do we need to innovate and is not how humans are. 2. Capacity so if Sprint was just 5mbps it would slow down to nothing in no time. 3. Price. If I can get 60mbps on tmobile or 10-15 on prepaid and pay less than sprint then why would I want to stay. Also we are the minority on knowing how to root and get unlimited hotspot access. I have yet meet anyone in my city to use that method. Im sure someone knows how but they are the minority. Sprint needs to be faster to survive and thats the bottom line.

Big difference between fastest and having more capacity. They can limit and do have limits, such as video streaming at 1mbps. If I were a wireless company I'd rather have 5 devices with a 5 maps connection, than 1 user with a 2 maps connection. And just because you haven't seen a person do the hot spot mod doesn't mean people arent. If someone has a custom rom, most likely it has hot spot unlocked. I'm just saying is that I know and see plenty of people who have unlimited with Verizon just because they get 20-25 and they abuse it. If Sprint had the fastest, what keeps them from coming here and abusing the network. I'm not against the added capacity increasing speeds, but against increasing speeds just because. They will be smart about network management

[milan03]

Big difference between fastest and having more capacity. They can limit and do have limits, such as video streaming at 1mbps. If I were a wireless company I'd rather have 5 devices with a 5 maps connection, than 1 user with a 2 maps connection. And just because you haven't seen a person do the hot spot mod doesn't mean people arent. If someone has a custom rom, most likely it has hot spot unlocked. I'm just saying is that I know and see plenty of people who have unlimited with Verizon just because they get 20-25 and they abuse it. If Sprint had the fastest, what keeps them from coming here and abusing the network. I'm not against the added capacity increasing speeds, but against increasing speeds just because. They will be smart about network management

I think Verizon is betting on eMBMS in 2014 which should alleviate capacity at the large events by allocating percentage of LTE spectrum for multicast operations. They could also pre cache the most popular YouTube videos, Software Updates, etc so that they send that one batch of data to everyone instead of same thing multiple times. I'm hoping this takes off successfully during the SuperBowl.

[Destroyallcubes]

I think Verizon is betting on eMBMS in 2014 which should alleviate capacity at the large events by allocating percentage of LTE spectrum for multicast operations. They could also pre cache the most popular YouTube videos, Software Updates, etc so that they send that one batch of data to everyone instead of same thing multiple times. I'm hoping this takes off in 2014 as that could further help the capacity demand.

Yeah I read something about that. They were going to show off something at the Super bowl. I hope they don't fail or it doesnt. But they will still need wifi. I've always hated big events, because it always seems that everything is overloaded. But to their credit , it is hard to cover up to a 100000 people for just one event.

[S4GRU]

 

I went back to the site in better light today during my lunch hour.  They actually changed one of the other sectors to narrow beam too.  So the two lower burdened sectors are unchanged, but the high burdened sector is now split into two narrow beam antennas.  Works like a charm!

 

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

[runagun]

Happy to hear about that. Now you know with sprint. You'd be waiting for a while before anything gets done about it. Not being negative just the way they are. Even Chicago this past week that I've been here. Not dropping calls but 4G is Swiss cheese. 3G seems fine.

 

One part of me says their working on it and another says. It's like the carrot and the stick. Always showing but no one can ever catch it.

 

First time since 08 when I opened this Sero line I upgraded to a G2 hoping for 26 and 41 action. Sadly, haven't experienced any. Now, will I leave Sprint? No, I will hope they get better. But, when someone ask how Sprint is I will tell them like how when I respond to sprint for their surveys. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. Every single member of my family left. Except me, but I do carry a Vzw device. In the Nextel hey day we had well over a few hundred devices attached to our DC number. 111*47051*1-2** It's just sad how Vzw has a problem they'd get it done fairly quickly but with Sprint just the opposite. It'll get better later.

 

Might not be in the correct thread. Just an emotional response Robert SPARKED out of me.

 

Hope the New Year rings in well for every one.

 

 

uploadfromtaptalk1388523407077.jpg

 

I went back to the site in better light today during my lunch hour. They actually changed one of the other sectors to narrow beam too. So the two lower burdened sectors are unchanged, but the high burdened sector is now split into two narrow beam antennas. Works like a charm!

 

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[S4GRU]

Well, it turns out Verizon has deployed AWS all over Rapid City. It seems to be on every site. I drove around all over the city and never lost the signal.

 

I discussed this with AJ last night, and it turns out the channel is parked on Tmo spectrum. Strange.

 

I first discovered it on my ATT SIM when in LTE only mode. Only ATT showed as a provider when I searched for mobile networks. But after searching the carrier ID, it came as Verizon. Slap in a Verizon SIM and it appeared and the signal filled up on the status bar.

 

I used my VZW SIM from my hotspot in my Nexus 5. No matter what I did, it would not authenticate. It would say it successfully registered with the network. And the signal would vary as I drove around. And the serving cells would change. But the info would not ever populate in SignalCheck Pro.

 

I think they only allow devices to authenticate to their LTE network where the MEID is in their database. And we know that Verizon does not have the N5 in their system. AT&T does the same thing. My N5 would not work on ATT LTE initially, I had to call them and they added the MEID to the system to allow it. At least ATT does that much.

 

 

 

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

[milan03]

Well, it turns out Verizon has deployed AWS all over Rapid City. It seems to be on every site. I drove around all over the city and never lost the signal.

 

I discussed this with AJ last night, and it turns out the channel is parked on Tmo spectrum. Strange.

 

I first discovered it on my ATT SIM when in LTE only mode. Only ATT showed as a provider when I searched for mobile networks. But after searching the carrier ID, it came as Verizon. Slap in a Verizon SIM and it appeared and the signal filled up on the status bar.

 

I used my VZW SIM from my hotspot in my Nexus 5. No matter what I did, it would not authenticate. It would say it successfully registered with the network. And the signal would vary as I drove around. And the serving cells would change. But the info would not ever populate in SignalCheck Pro.

 

I think they only allow devices to authenticate to their LTE network where the MEID is in their database. And we know that Verizon does not have the N5 in their system. AT&T does the same thing. My N5 would not work on ATT LTE initially, I had to call them and they added the MEID to the system to allow it. At least ATT does that much.

 

uploadfromtaptalk1388602313812.jpg

 

uploadfromtaptalk1388602335584.jpg

 

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Wow that's a 15Mhz channel in E+F! Do you have a Verizon certified AWS capable device to test it out?

[S4GRU]

Wow that's a 15Mhz channel in E+F! Do you have a Verizon certified AWS capable device to test it out?

Yes. My hotspot. But there are no engineering screens in the web browser interface to confirm what I'm connected to. The diagnostic screens provide lots of CDMA info, but only provide RSRP and MCC ID for LTE. Unless VZW uses a different ID for Band 4. Novatel Mifi 5510L.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

 

[milan03]

Yes. My hotspot. But there are no engineering screens in the web browser interface to confirm what I'm connected to. The diagnostic screens provide lots of CDMA info, but only provide RSRP and MCC ID for LTE. Unless VZW uses a different ID for Band 4.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

What's weird is E+F blocks. Verizon had B block license, but I assume they swapped it with T-Mobile. Weird.

If you scanned and saw Band 4 with PLMN 311-480, you definitely have AWS. Which hotspot do you own?

[S4GRU]

What's weird is E+F blocks. Verizon had B block license, but I assume they swapped it with T-Mobile. Weird.

If you scanned and saw Band 4 with PLMN 311-480, you definitely have AWS. Which hotspot do you own?

Novatel MiFi 5510L

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[milan03]

Novatel MiFi 5510L

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

Could it be that the narrow beam antenna on your site is actually AWS?

[digiblur]

Could it be that the narrow beam antenna on your site is actually AWS?

I know the sites I saw Verizon doing their AWS rollout on they put up antennas that were wide looking like the 33/45 ones Sprint uses but they were not narrow band, just triple band antennas.

[WiWavelength]

Wow that's a 15Mhz channel in E+F! Do you have a Verizon certified AWS capable device to test it out?

 

Hold on, we cannot judge carrier bandwidth from the EARFCN alone.  As I told Robert, it could be a 5 MHz FDD carrier in the lower half of the AWS F block license.  Other odd variations, too, are possible.

 

Unfortunately, Samsung (non Sprint) handsets seem to be alone in including the LTE carrier bandwidth field in their engineering screens.  I would love to have direct access to that info, but I am just not a fan of gaudy AMOLED and cheap plastic.  So, a Samsung is not likely in my near future.  For that reason, I am glad to have my spectrum analyzer, since it settles carrier bandwidth questions without the need for a handset nor a subscription.

 

Regardless, we have another case of VZW and T-Mobile incestuously operating in each other's spectrum without a prior FCC filing.  I am not sure what to make of it.

 

AJ

[milan03]

Hold on, we cannot judge carrier bandwidth from the EARFCN alone.  As I told Robert, it could be a 5 MHz FDD carrier in the lower half of the AWS F block license.  Other odd variations, too, are possible.

 

Unfortunately, Samsung (non Sprint) handsets seem to be alone in including the LTE carrier bandwidth field in their engineering screens.  I would love to have direct access to that info, but I am just not a fan of gaudy AMOLED and cheap plastic.  So, a Samsung is not likely in my near future.  For that reason, I am glad to have my spectrum analyzer, since it settles carrier bandwidth questions without the need for a handset nor a subscription.

 

Regardless, we have another case of VZW and T-Mobile incestuously operating in each other's spectrum without a prior FCC filing.  I am not sure what to make of it.

 

AJ

Yeah sure it could be lower F only which would make that market the first Verizon 5Mhz AWS market. But I find that highly unlikely and assuming 15Mhz in E+F. If Robert is connected to AWS and seeing over 13Mbps on the uplink that would completely rule out 5Mhz FDD as a possibility.

 

Sprint's Samsung Note 3 and S4 variants also display bandwidth when dialing *#0011# but I agree, overall Samsung user experience and build quality isn't on par with other OEMs. I still buy them for that ServiceMode that's simply the best in class and give me so many answers to RF related questions.

[WiWavelength]

Yeah sure it could be lower F only which would make that market the first Verizon 5Mhz AWS market. But I find that highly unlikely and assuming 15Mhz in E+F. If Robert is connected to AWS and seeing over 13Mbps on the uplink that would completely rule out 5Mhz FDD as a possibility.

 

You are correct, Milan.  Whether it was the New Year, beer, or late night, I did not see it last night.  But I like to think of myself as the Sherlock Holmes of the FCC ULS, and I just had a "eureka" moment.

 

Rapid City is among the markets included in the VZW-T-Mobile pending FCC filing that you and I were discussing just a few weeks ago.  The transaction -- which also includes a pending lease -- will assign the entire AWS F block from T-Mobile to VZW in Pennington County.  And VZW has already obtained an AWS E block partition in Pennington County a year ago.

 

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/ApplicationSearch/applAdmin.jsp?applID=7996271

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/licenseMarketSum.jsp?licKey=3406104

 

So, there is the spectrum necessary for a 15 MHz FDD band 4 carrier.  Mystery solved.

 

AJ

[milan03]

You are correct, Milan.  Whether it was the New Year, beer, or late night, I did not see it last night.  But I like to think of myself as the Sherlock Holmes of the FCC ULS, and I just had a "eureka" moment.

 

Rapid City is among the markets included in the VZW-T-Mobile pending FCC filing that you and I were discussing just a few weeks ago.  The transaction -- which also includes a pending lease -- will assign the entire AWS F block from T-Mobile to VZW in Pennington County.  And VZW has already obtained an AWS E block partition in Pennington County a year ago.

 

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/ApplicationSearch/applAdmin.jsp?applID=7996271

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/licenseMarketSum.jsp?licKey=3406104

 

So, there is the spectrum necessary for a 15 MHz FDD band 4 carrier.  Mystery solved.

 

AJ

Ah marvelous find, AJ! Thank you!

I'm definitely not nearly as skillful with FCC ULS, and was going with a bit of template matching skills, and a lot of Voodoo magic

 

Happy New Year!

[WiWavelength]

Looking over these license partitions, I noted Arthur County, Nebraska.  Population 460.

 

Hmm, at a typical valuation of roughly $0.70 per MHz·POP, I could afford to buy up the entire PCS or AWS band there.  Maybe I should go into spectrum sales...

 

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

Could it be that the narrow beam antenna on your site is actually AWS?

Could be. But I thought the AWS deployments had RRU's up at the panels. None of them around here have any visible RRU's

 

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

[milan03]

Could be. But I thought the AWS deployments had RRU's up at the panels. None of them around here have any visible RRU's

 

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

They aren't deploying RRUs to all their sites. Here in NYC which is ALU market, live AWS sites mostly don't have RRUs:

 

 

A very few of them are RRU equipped:

 

 

It's really random: http://www.rcrwireless.com/article/20130827/carriers/verizon-wireless-providing-template-for-lte-spectrum-enhancements/