Jump to content

Network initiated change


mhammett

Recommended Posts

I see this on my Sprint EVO LTE and my Verizon GS3, so it spans networks and manufacturers. Why can't the network tell the handset to rescan when it sees the handset using a band that's less than optimal? Both phones sit on 3G when LTE is available. The VZ phone will sit on 1x for a while. I understand scan intervals and whatnot on the handset, but the network knows what the handset is using, what the network is capable of in that area and what the handset is capable of.

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see this on my Sprint EVO LTE and my Verizon GS3, so it spans networks and manufacturers. Why can't the network tell the handset to rescan when it sees the handset using a band that's less than optimal? Both phones sit on 3G when LTE is available. The VZ phone will sit on 1x for a while. I understand scan intervals and whatnot on the handset, but the network knows what the handset is using, what the network is capable of in that area and what the handset is capable of.

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2Ver

Very good question.  I have had that same question for about a year now.  The network should be smart enough to control each handset and direct it to the best network.  This should be done on the voice side and the data aside.  The network should not allow the handset to make a call on 1900 if the levels are getting weak.  If the network determines the signal from the handset if about -100, it should just move the handset to the 800 network.  Alternatively, if the level from the handset is extremely good, move the handset from the 800 network to the 1900 network. On the voice side, this might only be done when the phone is idle.  But on the data side, it could be done while active on data. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am formulating an article on this topic for my engineering series on The Wall.  But I do not know when the article will be ready to publish.  So, I will answer some of the questions posed and reveal a few pieces of info later this morning.

 

AJ

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to note that I'm not looking to have the network force the handset to a certain technology or band. Just have the network tell the handset, "Ya know what, I think you could be doing something better. Rescan when you get the chance." It's in the best interest of the network to have the handsets on the best technology assuming sufficient modulation to not be a drag.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've thought that, too, with my EVO LTE.  There are some places where I KNOW there is LTE, yet it stays on 3G.  In the same places, sometimes it will connect on its own, other times I have to reset the connection with Signal Check Pro.  I was assuming it was just related to the "poor reception" that everyone claims plagues the EVO LTE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to note that I'm not looking to have the network force the handset to a certain technology or band. Just have the network tell the handset, "Ya know what, I think you could be doing something better. Rescan when you get the chance." It's in the best interest of the network to have the handsets on the best technology assuming sufficient modulation to not be a drag.

Exactly.   I do not care if I am on 1900, 800, or 2600.   Just have the system be smart enough to place my phone on the network that is going to work best for me. With today's technology and software, this should be possible. It should already be accomplished. ALSO, while this is surely more difficult, figure out how to allow a voice call to transfer between 1900, 800, 2600 and avoid a dropped call. Surely there has to be some way to make this happen. Sure, this is not easy to fix, but do it somehow. Pin down the

various manufacturers and software guys and get it done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've thought that, too, with my EVO LTE. There are some places where I KNOW there is LTE, yet it stays on 3G. In the same places, sometimes it will connect on its own, other times I have to reset the connection with Signal Check Pro. I was assuming it was just related to the "poor reception" that everyone claims plagues the EVO LTE.

Well, if you've spent time in an area without LTE, then enter LTE, it mat take up to 45 minutes to reacquire LTE. As I understand it, it'll check often for twenty minutes, then go to every 45 minutes. Annoying, but not what I originally thought about. If I temporarily lose LTE or even 3G, it'll park on the next lower technology seemingly forever. Its worse when data is being used.

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, if you've spent time in an area without LTE, then enter LTE, it mat take up to 45 minutes to reacquire LTE. As I understand it, it'll check often for twenty minutes, then go to every 45 minutes. Annoying, but not what I originally thought about. If I temporarily lose LTE or even 3G, it'll park on the next lower technology seemingly forever. Its worse when data is being used.

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

Hm, interesting.  That explains some things!  Is the only way to change the scan time to root it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rather than write one or two lengthy posts that take too long to complete, I will address some questions/concerns individually in short posts.

 

I see this on my Sprint EVO LTE and my Verizon GS3, so it spans networks and manufacturers. Why can't the network tell the handset to rescan when it sees the handset using a band that's less than optimal?

 

The CDMA2000 protocol is roughly 15 years old, not to mention, 3GPP2.  To my knowledge, it does not contain any sync or paging channel message for the network to redirect a mobile to a 3GPP or IEEE airlink.  Even W-CDMA, to my knowledge, cannot redirect a mobile to LTE -- and both W-CDMA and LTE are 3GPP airlinks.  In all cases, the mobile is responsible for detecting and acquiring LTE or WiMAX based upon a scan timer.

 

Like it or not, when old technology is standardized, it does not anticipate interfacing with all the iterations of new technology.

 

Even if such a rescan flag were possible in the CDMA2000 protocol, the other issue is it could cause a mobile within a hybrid CDMA2000/LTE cell to get stuck in an LTE rescan loop.  The mobile could be near the cell edge and have decent CDMA1X/EV-DO signal but only fringe or unusable LTE signal, as we know that LTE is a much less robust airlink.  The constant rescanning in such a situation would drain the battery in short order.

 

AJ

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The network should not allow the handset to make a call on 1900 if the levels are getting weak.  If the network determines the signal from the handset if about -100, it should just move the handset to the 800 network.

Due to loading or signal strength, the network can set up a traffic channel on another carrier channel, even in another band class. That has happened for years on VZW's CDMA1X 850/1900 network.  It is no big deal.

 

On the voice side, this might only be done when the phone is idle.

No, redirecting an idle mobile to another carrier channel, while possible, is rare.  That form of redirection tends to be used only in certain circumstances and locations.  The more likely form of redirection is active state, as I have described above.

 

AJ

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's what I assumed with my Evo 3D. I know if I sit on the 4g screen and keep hitting scan it just destroys my battery. What would be nice is if the phone detects a better signal and can measure the strength and possibly have a routine to watch it over a period of a user defined time (like pick from 30 secs, 1 minute, 2 minutes, 5 minutes) and it stays stable, it should automatically switch to that band. Of course, it's easy to say it would be a good feature but how possible would it be to implement?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The network could also send out the scan request to only handsets over a certain dB. This would prevent phones outside of coverage of a better band continually scanning.

 

The network wouldn't be forcing changes. Just hint to the handset that it should look for something better.

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, to mildly hijack this thread...

 

I know we're just now seeing multiple bands in use with Sprint; have we seen the ability for the network to initiate a handoff from one band to another? In other words, can the network say "Hey, quit connecting to 1900, there's 2500 around you, scan for that already!" or something similar? Will multi-band devices do this on their own?

 

Basically, I would be worried about devices "sticking" on 800 LTE, simply because it's the strongest (and most readily available) signal, and never handing off to 1900 or 2500, even when available, leading to speeds on 800 quickly degrading. After all, there only ever will be one 5x5 FD-LTE carrier on ESMR 800. With PCS 1900, I know Sprint can add a second LTE carrier in many locations, and with BRS 2500, well, we've got spectrum to spare for the moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, to mildly hijack this thread...

 

I know we're just now seeing multiple bands in use with Sprint; have we seen the ability for the network to initiate a handoff from one band to another? In other words, can the network say "Hey, quit connecting to 1900, there's 2500 around you, scan for that already!" or something similar? Will multi-band devices do this on their own?

 

Basically, I would be worried about devices "sticking" on 800 LTE, simply because it's the strongest (and most readily available) signal, and never handing off to 1900 or 2500, even when available, leading to speeds on 800 quickly degrading. After all, there only ever will be one 5x5 FD-LTE carrier on ESMR 800. With PCS 1900, I know Sprint can add a second LTE carrier in many locations, and with BRS 2500, well, we've got spectrum to spare for the moment.

Like AJ said it's up to the device to select which band it gets, however you have to take into account that band 41 will likely be the first priority so when it scans it should attach to it until the signal starts to deteriorate.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like AJ said it's up to the device to select which band it gets...  

 

That is largely true for CDMA2000 but not necessarily so for LTE.

 

AJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can't prioritize bands in LTE?

 

You will have to elaborate what you mean by that.

 

AJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I saw a document today where Sprint plans to have the network determine your LTE band in certain instances, like heavy traffic, traffic balancing, carrier problem, etc. Your device will pick first, but it may be overridden by the network if it deems it necessary.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0 using Tapatalk

 

 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • large.unreadcontent.png.6ef00db54e758d06

  • gallery_1_23_9202.png

  • Posts

    • Luckily, that hasn't arisen in my area where I am, aside from having B14 (well, ALL of AT&T signal) not work at all in Coosa county, Alabama. I wish there was a service for first responders that would go to ANY available carrier, provider, etc..and in the absolute worst case scenario, would give us service. I've been on an ambulance, trying to find an address, and my driver actually had to pull over and we pulled out a map book and tried to find the road using the "old fashioned way".. and that takes valuable time away that sometimes may be vital to someone surviving. BUT, I will say that I've only seen that in Coosa county... both my Tmo and AT&T phones had zero service and I couldn't get GPS, and neither could my driver (VZW service). Maybe satellite will help with that in those times where that occurs.. but that's an extreme example.     Edit to add: Let me add some context to this.. Coosa county isn't regular coverage area for my job.. so it's not a regular thing that we are dispatched to Coosa county.. and actually, there's been a change and that county now has it's own ambulance service that operates.. so the only time we might receive a request is if it's a multiple casualty scenario, or it's a transfer going home from our contracted hospital.  The way that reads above, it may seem like we are just out without some sort of GPS gadget to direct us on where to go, but for the most part, we know our coverage area pretty well. Dispatch can also give us cross streets for reference inside our coverage area (and our home county). Coosa just isn't a regular area for my job to run in. 
    • "Priority" doesn't mean "exclusivity."  When emergency services don't need B14, AT&T can use it for everyone else.  The trade-off is that when it is needed for emergency services, they not only get all of B14, but they have also arranged for priority on the rest of the AT&T network as well.  Beats having spectrum sitting unused most of the time and then not having enough when disaster strikes, as it could be without a partnership with a wireless company like AT&T. - Trip
    • I've wondered if being on the first responder plan has the priority over other 'regular' lines in the same way firstnet does (or, supposed to do with B14...I've seen normal customers on AT&T hit B14 so it's not {specifically} for Firstnet only)...  
    • T-Mobile prices people pay are all over the map. The free lines are key, so take them if ever offered again.  Your priority level would be a key factor for your price.  Only T-Mobile would know the average prices people pay.  Samsung has been offering very good deals at time of new model introductions so I have gone that route for factory unlocked, which allows me to also have a Verizon priority MVNO for when T-Mobile signal fails or I manually override.
    • I also wanted to post a speed test result.. I only do these once in a while from my home area because we are gonna be the last to see changes, like load balancing.  Right now they are digging all over the place for fiber installs, so I'm not sure what the hold-up is on making the upload speed a little more in-line with download speeds, but here is the most recent from my area:   https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/a/10133670525
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...