Apple LTE Band discussion

[Rasta Cheesehead]

Maybe, but it's unlikely. Normally supporting Bands 7+38 automatically makes it impossible to support Band 41 (they are currently mutually exclusive). And Apple will definitely support those bands before Band 41, because they're being used EVERYWHERE except Japan and the US. Even Canada uses Band 7 right now, with Band 38 being auctioned sometime next year.

 

 

Are you saying that Apple will most likely never support band 41 and 7+38? What if they make a different model sans 7+38 but include B41?

 

 

Sent from my Sprint iPhone 5, not the old one (using Tapatalk 2).

 

 

Apple will support LTE BAND 41 , simple answer is SOFTBANK.. This is what the Sprint/ Softbank merger is all about making it easy to get devices and network gear. 1st and #1 iphone carrier in Japan and the #3 iphone carrier in the US , apple would lose out on a lot of money not supporting one of its largest customer. They are the same company now.

[Conan Kudo]

Apple will support LTE BAND 41 , simple answer is SOFTBANK.. This is what the Sprint/ Softbank merger is all about making it easy to get devices and network gear. 1st and #1 iphone carrier in Japan and the #3 iphone carrier in the US , apple would lose out on a lot of money not supporting one of its largest customer. They are the same company now.

SoftBank and Sprint combined, which have a subscriber total of ~88M, are dwarfed by the combined strength of Vodafone (450M), Airtel (266M), SingTel (265M), América Móvil (252M), Telefónica (250M), Orange (230M), VimpelCom (215M), TeliaSonera (160M), Telenor (150M), and Deutsche Telekom (130M). All of those operators participate in the GSM/UMTS/LTE ecosystem, and all of them are doing GSM/LTE or GSM/UMTS/LTE with LTE FDD and LTE TDD with Bands 7+38 instead of Band 41 LTE TDD. That is an ecosystem of 2368 million (~2.4 billion) subscribers.

 

Unfortunately enough, SoftBank can participate in this ecosystem and get good pricing on handsets with a swap to Band 41, but Sprint cannot. This is because SoftBank's handsets involve a simple filter swap on GSM/UMTS/LTE devices that support Band 38 to widen to Band 41 (and not include the Band 7 PA, which nearly all Band 38 devices currently do not have anyway). Also, since SoftBank uses bands for UMTS that are the same as the rest of Asia and Europe, there is a higher degree of reuse. This dramatically cuts the cost.

 

Sprint has several counts against it in the ecosystem. While it uses PCS A-F spectrum (which is widely used for UMTS service), it provides CDMA2000 service on that band instead. It also provides CDMA service on ESMR, with plans to provide LTE service on the band soon, too. Additionally, its PCS G block has not yet been auctioned elsewhere because the viability of the ecosystem is considered suspect, so the PCS G LTE network is considered "unusual". While it is true that most power amplifier parts are multi-mode, the procurement of CDMA devices and infrastructure is much more expensive because of the vastly reduced market for it. It doesn't help that Verizon's planned exit of the user device procurement market for CDMA/LTE devices will cause an ecosystem crash (it cuts the size of the CDMA/LTE market by more than half). Sprint will have to spend substantially more per device, which means Sprint has less money to spend on infrastructure.

 

3GPP infrastructure will be much cheaper for Sprint to acquire now, since it can use the combined strength of Sprint and SoftBank, but 3GPP2+3GPP gear will continue to get more expensive. That is why SoftBank wants to convert Sprint to 3GPP-only by 2017. It doesn't want to fund what it considers to be a waste (which it does consider the 3GPP2 gear to be that).

[Rasta Cheesehead]

SoftBank and Sprint combined, which have a subscriber total of ~88M, are dwarfed by the combined strength of Vodafone (450M), Airtel (266M), SingTel (265M), América Móvil (252M), Telefónica (250M), Orange (230M), VimpelCom (215M), TeliaSonera (160M), Telenor (150M), and Deutsche Telekom (130M). All of those operators participate in the GSM/UMTS/LTE ecosystem, and all of them are doing GSM/LTE or GSM/UMTS/LTE with LTE FDD and LTE TDD with Bands 7+38 instead of Band 41 LTE TDD. That is an ecosystem of 2368 million (~2.4 billion) subscribers.

 

Unfortunately enough, SoftBank can participate in this ecosystem and get good pricing on handsets with a swap to Band 41, but Sprint cannot. This is because SoftBank's handsets involve a simple filter swap on GSM/UMTS/LTE devices that support Band 38 to widen to Band 41 (and not include the Band 7 PA, which nearly all Band 38 devices currently do not have anyway). Also, since SoftBank uses bands for UMTS that are the same as the rest of Asia and Europe, there is a higher degree of reuse. This dramatically cuts the cost.

 

Sprint has several counts against it in the ecosystem. While it uses PCS A-F spectrum (which is widely used for UMTS service), it provides CDMA2000 service on that band instead. It also provides CDMA service on ESMR, with plans to provide LTE service on the band soon, too. Additionally, its PCS G block has not yet been auctioned elsewhere because the viability of the ecosystem is considered suspect, so the PCS G LTE network is considered "unusual". While it is true that most power amplifier parts are multi-mode, the procurement of CDMA devices and infrastructure is much more expensive because of the vastly reduced market for it. It doesn't help that Verizon's planned exit of the user device procurement market for CDMA/LTE devices will cause an ecosystem crash (it cuts the size of the CDMA/LTE market by more than half). Sprint will have to spend substantially more per device, which means Sprint has less money to spend on infrastructure.

 

3GPP infrastructure will be much cheaper for Sprint to acquire now, since it can use the combined strength of Sprint and SoftBank, but 3GPP2+3GPP gear will continue to get more expensive. That is why SoftBank wants to convert Sprint to 3GPP-only by 2017. It doesn't want to fund what it considers to be a waste (which it does consider the 3GPP2 gear to be that).

 

 

Apple supports carriers and have contracts with carriers that sell iphones, none of the carriers mentioned move more iphones than Sprint and softbank. Apple also supports the technologies of its carrier partners.  

Edited July 30, 2013 by Rasta Cheesehead

[Conan Kudo]

 

SoftBank and Sprint combined, which have a subscriber total of ~88M, are dwarfed by the combined strength of Vodafone (450M), Airtel (266M), SingTel (265M), América Móvil (252M), Telefónica (250M), Orange (230M), VimpelCom (215M), TeliaSonera (160M), Telenor (150M), and Deutsche Telekom (130M). All of those operators participate in the GSM/UMTS/LTE ecosystem, and all of them are doing GSM/LTE or GSM/UMTS/LTE with LTE FDD and LTE TDD with Bands 7+38 instead of Band 41 LTE TDD. That is an ecosystem of 2368 million (~2.4 billion) subscribers.

 

Unfortunately enough, SoftBank can participate in this ecosystem and get good pricing on handsets with a swap to Band 41, but Sprint cannot. This is because SoftBank's handsets involve a simple filter swap on GSM/UMTS/LTE devices that support Band 38 to widen to Band 41 (and not include the Band 7 PA, which nearly all Band 38 devices currently do not have anyway). Also, since SoftBank uses bands for UMTS that are the same as the rest of Asia and Europe, there is a higher degree of reuse. This dramatically cuts the cost.

 

Sprint has several counts against it in the ecosystem. While it uses PCS A-F spectrum (which is widely used for UMTS service), it provides CDMA2000 service on that band instead. It also provides CDMA service on ESMR, with plans to provide LTE service on the band soon, too. Additionally, its PCS G block has not yet been auctioned elsewhere because the viability of the ecosystem is considered suspect, so the PCS G LTE network is considered "unusual". While it is true that most power amplifier parts are multi-mode, the procurement of CDMA devices and infrastructure is much more expensive because of the vastly reduced market for it. It doesn't help that Verizon's planned exit of the user device procurement market for CDMA/LTE devices will cause an ecosystem crash (it cuts the size of the CDMA/LTE market by more than half). Sprint will have to spend substantially more per device, which means Sprint has less money to spend on infrastructure.

 

3GPP infrastructure will be much cheaper for Sprint to acquire now, since it can use the combined strength of Sprint and SoftBank, but 3GPP2+3GPP gear will continue to get more expensive. That is why SoftBank wants to convert Sprint to 3GPP-only by 2017. It doesn't want to fund what it considers to be a waste (which it does consider the 3GPP2 gear to be that).

Apple supports carriers and have contracts with carriers that sell iphones, none of the carriers mentioned move more iphones than Sprint and softbank. Apple also supports the technologies of its carrier partners.  

Are you blind? Vodafone Europe (roughly half of that number) alone sells more iPhones. And Apple does not always support all the technologies of its carrier partners. Otherwise the iPhone 5 would have had Band 7 and Band 20 (Hint: it doesn't!). Nearly all of Apple's European partners had Band 7 and/or Band 20 LTE networks, but neither band is supported on the iPhone 5.

[Rasta Cheesehead]

 

SoftBank and Sprint combined, which have a subscriber total of ~88M, are dwarfed by the combined strength of Vodafone (450M), Airtel (266M), SingTel (265M), América Móvil (252M), Telefónica (250M), Orange (230M), VimpelCom (215M), TeliaSonera (160M), Telenor (150M), and Deutsche Telekom (130M). All of those operators participate in the GSM/UMTS/LTE ecosystem, and all of them are doing GSM/LTE or GSM/UMTS/LTE with LTE FDD and LTE TDD with Bands 7+38 instead of Band 41 LTE TDD. That is an ecosystem of 2368 million (~2.4 billion) subscribers.

 

Unfortunately enough, SoftBank can participate in this ecosystem and get good pricing on handsets with a swap to Band 41, but Sprint cannot. This is because SoftBank's handsets involve a simple filter swap on GSM/UMTS/LTE devices that support Band 38 to widen to Band 41 (and not include the Band 7 PA, which nearly all Band 38 devices currently do not have anyway). Also, since SoftBank uses bands for UMTS that are the same as the rest of Asia and Europe, there is a higher degree of reuse. This dramatically cuts the cost.

 

Sprint has several counts against it in the ecosystem. While it uses PCS A-F spectrum (which is widely used for UMTS service), it provides CDMA2000 service on that band instead. It also provides CDMA service on ESMR, with plans to provide LTE service on the band soon, too. Additionally, its PCS G block has not yet been auctioned elsewhere because the viability of the ecosystem is considered suspect, so the PCS G LTE network is considered "unusual". While it is true that most power amplifier parts are multi-mode, the procurement of CDMA devices and infrastructure is much more expensive because of the vastly reduced market for it. It doesn't help that Verizon's planned exit of the user device procurement market for CDMA/LTE devices will cause an ecosystem crash (it cuts the size of the CDMA/LTE market by more than half). Sprint will have to spend substantially more per device, which means Sprint has less money to spend on infrastructure.

 

3GPP infrastructure will be much cheaper for Sprint to acquire now, since it can use the combined strength of Sprint and SoftBank, but 3GPP2+3GPP gear will continue to get more expensive. That is why SoftBank wants to convert Sprint to 3GPP-only by 2017. It doesn't want to fund what it considers to be a waste (which it does consider the 3GPP2 gear to be that).

 

 

Apple supports carriers and have contracts with carriers that sell iphones, none of the carriers mentioned move more iphones than Sprint and softbank. Apple also supports the technologies of its carrier partners.  

 

Apple supports carriers and have contracts with carriers that sell iphones, none of the carriers mentioned move more iphones than Sprint and softbank. Apple also supports the technologies of its carrier partners.

[Rasta Cheesehead]

Are you blind? Vodafone Europe (roughly half of that number) alone sells more iPhones. And Apple does not always support all the technologies of its carrier partners. Otherwise the iPhone 5 would have had Band 7 and Band 20 (Hint: it doesn't!). Nearly all of Apple's European partners had Band 7 and/or Band 20 LTE networks, but neither band is supported on the iPhone 5.

 

 

Those networks are in there infancy or non existent, when they become available and more robust. than they will be supported.. and no im not blind , I just follow the money and that's the same thing apple does

Edited July 30, 2013 by Rasta Cheesehead

[Conan Kudo]

Those networks are in there infancy or non existent, when they become available and more robust. than they will be supported.. and no im not blind , I just follow the money and that's the same thing apple does

So TeliaSonera, who has run LTE on Band 7 in some countries since 2009, and had national, well-performing coverage in most of them since 2011, isn't mature enough for Apple? And somehow Verizon, who launches its LTE network at the end of 2010, and doesn't get national coverage until now, is mature enough in early 2012? I call BS.

[maximus1987/lou99]

So TeliaSonera, who has run LTE on Band 7 in some countries since 2009, and had national, well-performing coverage in most of them since 2011, isn't mature enough for Apple? And somehow Verizon, who launches its LTE network at the end of 2010, and doesn't get national coverage until now, is mature enough in early 2012? I call BS.

You're asking us to divine Apple's intentions while people who are paid 6 figures can't even do it. Lets leave Apple out of this and focus on everyone else.

 

When did Samsung, ChineseSpy_1 (huawei), ChineseSpy_2 (ZTE), Nokia, Sony, LG, etc first make a band 3, 7, 20 phone?

[iansltx]

So TeliaSonera, who has run LTE on Band 7 in some countries since 2009, and had national, well-performing coverage in most of them since 2011, isn't mature enough for Apple? And somehow Verizon, who launches its LTE network at the end of 2010, and doesn't get national coverage until now, is mature enough in early 2012? I call BS.

 

What's Telia's sub count vs. Verizon's?

 

The iPhone's spectrum support is not a level playing field. US operators get things handed to them (BC10 CDMA being one of them, LTE PCS+G being another) that other operators don't get.

[Rasta Cheesehead]

So TeliaSonera, who has run LTE on Band 7 in some countries since 2009, and had national, well-performing coverage in most of them since 2011, isn't mature enough for Apple? And somehow Verizon, who launches its LTE network at the end of 2010, and doesn't get national coverage until now, is mature enough in early 2012? I call BS.

again follow the money its simple as this Sprint signed a 15 billion dollar contract to make sure the current and future iphones are compatible with its networks. the Clear LTE network has always been apart of that plan. everyone talks about how much Sprint paid for the iphone but no one talks about why , not cause of its is size but the unique devices apple must develop to work on Sprint's networks. if Sprint had the combine power that it has now that contract would not have been as much.  

Edited July 30, 2013 by Rasta Cheesehead

[Conan Kudo]

What's Telia's sub count vs. Verizon's?

 

The iPhone's spectrum support is not a level playing field. US operators get things handed to them (BC10 CDMA being one of them, LTE PCS+G being another) that other operators don't get.

One of those numbers "that don't matter" (according to some people) is TeliaSonera's subscriber count: 160 million subscribers as of FY 2012. Definitively larger than Verizon Wireless, I would think.

 

 

again follow the money its simple as this Sprint signed a 15 billion dollar contract to make sure the current and future iphones are compatible with its networks. the Clear LTE network has always been apart of that plan. everyone talks about how much Sprint paid for the iphone but no one talks about why , not cause of its is size but the unique devices apple must develop to work on Sprint's networks. if Sprint had the combine power that it has now that contract would not have been as much.  

 

 

Here's a dirty little secret, if you don't already know this: Apple makes everyone do this (except T-Mobile, reportedly, but I'm a little disbelieving). TeliaSonera, Deutsche Telekom, Vodafone, SoftBank, C Spire, everyone signed agreements toward massive volume commitments. You can be damn sure all of those operators told Apple to support their LTE networks. But they got shortchanged.

[Rasta Cheesehead]

One of those numbers "that don't matter" (according to some people) is TeliaSonera's subscriber count: 160 million subscribers as of FY 2012. Definitively larger than Verizon Wireless, I would think.

 

 

 

Here's a dirty little secret, if you don't already know this: Apple makes everyone do this (except T-Mobile, reportedly, but I'm a little disbelieving). TeliaSonera, Deutsche Telekom, Vodafone, SoftBank, C Spire, everyone signed agreements toward massive volume commitments. You can be damn sure all of those operators told Apple to support their LTE networks. But they got shortchanged.

 

its the same thing over and over again, everyone said cause Sprint has LTE on 1900 and not 700, Sprint would not get LTE on the iphone and people said iphone would not support 800 CDMA, but the iphone 5 came and supported Sprint LTE, and 800 CDMA. Apple will support LTE band 41 for Sprint and Softbank.

[maximus1987/lou99]

One of those numbers "that don't matter" (according to some people) is TeliaSonera's subscriber count: 160 million subscribers as of FY 2012. Definitively larger than Verizon Wireless, I would think.

 

 

 

Here's a dirty little secret, if you don't already know this: Apple makes everyone do this (except T-Mobile, reportedly, but I'm a little disbelieving). TeliaSonera, Deutsche Telekom, Vodafone, SoftBank, C Spire, everyone signed agreements toward massive volume commitments. You can be damn sure all of those operators told Apple to support their LTE networks. But they got shortchanged.

This point is really undebateable: no one here knows the terms of LTE support specified by Apple's contracts with each carrier.

[Sonic13]

I really hope Apple includes the Qualcomm RF360 in the next iPhone(s). It'd make it a "world phone". Sprint's entire network would be supported.

[Rasta Cheesehead]

Sprint Network Chief Steve Elfman confirmed all Sprint devices released in 2014 will have 2.5 LTE. But when was asked by a investor question specifically about the iphone , Elfman said “We can’t confirm anything on the iPhone at this time or anytime. sounds like a slip/accidental confirmation , but quickly tried to fix/cover up/back track.

[gusherb]

Sprint Network Chief Steve Elfman confirmed all Sprint devices released in 2014 will have 2.5 LTE. But when was asked by a investor question specifically about the iphone , Elfman said “We can’t confirm anything on the iPhone at this time or anytime. sounds like a slip/accidental confirmation , but quickly tried to fix/cover up/back track.

 

That means the iPhone 6 will get it not the 5S if that's the case. 

[kallistos]

New GS4 version announced can swap between TD/FDD LTE. I wonder when we'll see a 800/1900/2500 capable iPhone that can also swap between TD/FDD.

[bucdenny]

Just spoke to a hardware test engineer at Qualcomm.  iPhone 5S modem will be ultilizing the Qualcomm's Fusion 3 platform using the APQ8064.  He also confirmed the new LG and Samsung will be using the 8974.  We all know the new LG is Sprint's first tri-band phone.

 

Can someone else confirm iPhone 5s will be using the APQ8064? If it is indeed the 8064, no Sprint LTE tri-band. 

 

Also, he said they had worked on this project last year for Apple, LG and Samsung.

[WiWavelength]

 

Just spoke to a hardware test engineer at Qualcomm.  iPhone 5S modem will be ultilizing the Qualcomm's Fusion 3 platform using the APQ8064.  He also confirmed the new LG and Samsung will be using the 8974.  We all know the new LG is Sprint's first tri-band phone.

 

Can someone else confirm iPhone 5s will be using the APQ8064? If it is indeed the 8064, no Sprint LTE tri-band. 

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  The APQ8064 is just an application processor.  It is a standalone part, as well as the heart of the Snapdragon 600.  But it is not a baseband.  So, it has nothing to do with LTE band capability.

 

Plus, Apple is not likely shifting from its own ARM architecture to Qualcomm's ARM architecture.  I think you got some bad info...

 

AJ

[bucdenny]

Just wanted to make sure.

[illest_ios]

i wonder if the new iphone will be a triband phone... any thoughts?

[MacinJosh]

i wonder if the new iphone will be a triband phone... any thoughts?

 

I think the biggest consensus is now that we just don't know. I'm hoping for tri-band, but it's still 50/50 until Apple announces it during their iPhone event this September.

[illest_ios]

I think the biggest consensus is now that we just don't know. I'm hoping for tri-band, but it's still 50/50 until Apple announces it during their iPhone event this September.

 

nice. well thanks bro! hopefully they will say at the launch event

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

I'll be happy if they'd just support 800mhz LTE. 2.5/2.6ghz TD-LTE support would be AWESOME as well, but I can live without that on my iPhone, for the moment. I'm more excited about having LTE in more places and especially indoor propagation.

 

Maybe Apple will surprise us.

[Danielj1981]

I'll be happy if they'd just support 800mhz LTE. 2.5/2.6ghz TD-LTE support would be AWESOME as well, but I can live without that on my iPhone, for the moment. I'm more excited about having LTE in more places and especially indoor propagation. Maybe Apple will surprise us.

I agree man! I would prefer 800 first. Just because of where I work and go the most. Need the indoor coverage and more areas with LTE. I can wait on the faster speeds. Just give us 800. Would love to see all 3. Then it's a no brainer to upgrade. If the "5s" or whatever they call it, doesn't have 800, I will just wait for the 6 next year.

 

 

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