Debate on whether you should offload smartphone data on WiFi, even though you pay for "unlimited"

[Wiley_11]

Again... In the context of this thread data is a measurement whatever you eat at a buffet is physical and therefore not unlimited.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

Data aka wireless spectrum is limited. Check out this or other numerous articles on the subject. Wireless spectrum is nothing more than a commodity, like shrimp or gasoline.

 

 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/caeb0766-9635-11e1-a6a0-00144feab49a.html#ixzz28ThqJiTu

[leozno1]

I don't know if this is the place for this, But I hope it might help.

I have decided to drop sprint after almost 25 years (I came with the primco accquisition). Why? The kicker was data speed. I am willing to pay for LTE now that I can use everywhere I go (including indoors). I believe it will be 2 Yrs before 800 LTE bands are up in my area. Also Sprint is tightening their belts... Discounts that used to encompass my whole bill now they won't even apply to my complete family plan (they unbundle my wife from the $129 plan to save the $4 in discount on her $20 service.)

 

Sprint will lose customers if LTE is much slower than the competition. They will have to respond to remain viable. Expect crackdowns on data hogs once LTE is up and running. I hear the other side (I paid for it.. I should be able to use it), But this comes down to holding you to what you agreed to. If you use the system for other devices without a tethering plan, you are an abuser.

Hopefully they will go after those abusers who really impact the system and not scrap the unlimited plan.

 

I don't think Sprint will lose customers just because their LTE won't hit 30 mbps like AT&T or VZW. To be honest people don't need that kind of speed on their phones. The advertised 6-8 should be MORE than enough to do anything on your phone. Heck in my opinion even 1-2mbps 3G is enough to do pretty good web browsing and watching Youtube videos. As long as customers get a good experience they will be happy. They aren't going to be like "My LTE is only 10 mbps and that guy is getting 15. I'm leaving Sprint!" That would just be foolish.

[PythonFanPA]

I don't think Sprint will lose customers just because their LTE won't hit 30 mbps like AT&T or VZW. To be honest people don't need that kind of speed on their phones. The advertised 6-8 should be MORE than enough to do anything on your phone. Heck in my opinion even 1-2mbps 3G is enough to do pretty good web browsing and watching Youtube videos. As long as customers get a good experience they will be happy. They aren't going to be like "My LTE is only 10 mbps and that guy is getting 15. I'm leaving Sprint!" That would just be foolish.

 

Robert has posted this same thing pretty much and I wholeheartedly agree with it. Its possible there might be a loss of some power user/tech savvy types who are far more worried about their Speedtest epeen size, but those would be in the small to mid single digit percentage minority at best...and I could envision the possibility that some of those minute losses very possibly could encompass some of the worst 'abusive' types mentioned previously as well.

 

Most people just want their phone to work consistently, bottom line....and as long as that happens with little to no interruption or latency issues they're going to be perfectly happy.

[leozno1]

It's simple actually. The shrimp supply of a restaurant is limited meaning they don't have an endless supply of shrimp in the kitchen. One important difference between data and food is that food is a physical object...data/bandwith ( in the context of this thread) is a measurement. While not likely...If I am the only customer in the restaurant I can potentially eat every pieces shrimp in the restaurant ( it might take me a while). If I'm the only customer on the network there's no way that I can use up every piece of data since data is a measurement and not a physical object. Being a measurement data can't be finite... unless of course numbers are finite which everyone knows is not the case.

 

As far as time goes...it has nothing to do with anything. I can set my phone to sync my e-mail every 30 minutes and that still happens even when I'm sleeping and not physically using my phone.

 

Again... In the context of this thread data is a measurement whatever you eat at a buffet is physical and therefore not unlimited.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

Your comparison isn't very accurate because you eating all the shrimp at a single restaurant is no where near proportional to you as 1 customer using the capacity of data on an entire network that is designed to support millions. A more accurate comparison would be you being able to eat all the food at every McDonalds in the country.

 

Also Just because data as a measurement is infinite does not mean that the rate at which it able to be transmitted is as well, in this case those limits being spectrum and backhaul. You can only pass so much information though a certain amount of spectrum and though the cables that connect the network to the internet. Therefore the amount of data that can be handled by the network is indeed finite.

[leozno1]

Robert has posted this same thing pretty much and I wholeheartedly agree with it. Its possible there might be a loss of some power user/tech savvy types who are far more worried about their Speedtest epeen size, but those would be in the small to mid single digit percentage minority at best...and I could envision the possibility that some of those minute losses very possibly could encompass some of the worst 'abusive' types mentioned previously as well.

 

Most people just want their phone to work consistently, bottom line....and as long as that happens with little to no interruption or latency issues they're going to be perfectly happy.

 

Heck, if those abusers leave and start clogging other carrier's networks it might just even out the playing field. Faster data for us and slower data on the competition.

[WiWavelength]

Data aka wireless spectrum is limited. Check out this or other numerous articles on the subject. Wireless spectrum is nothing more than a commodity, like shrimp or gasoline.

 

Data itself is effectively unlimited. It can be created at will. But the means to convey that data is limited by physics and infrastructure.

 

I liken data to driving (if gasoline were free) and wireless data networks to highways. Highways can be continually built and widened only so much. At some point, the highway department has to say, "ENOUGH!"

 

"We can't cost effectively increase highway capacity any greater than we already have. You people drive too much. Start working and shopping from home more. And for those of you thinking about moving here, we can't stop you, but know that you're just going to make the problem worse for yourself and everyone else here."

 

The parallels to data and networks are many...

 

AJ

[Proxcee]

Data aka wireless spectrum is limited. Check out this or other numerous articles on the subject. Wireless spectrum is nothing more than a commodity, like shrimp or gasoline.

 

 

http://www.ft.com/cm...l#ixzz28ThqJiTu

 

Wireless spectrum (frequency used to transmit) is limited but the amount of data that can be transmitted over that meduim is not...The quality of an overloaded network is another topic. Sorry...but data is not spectrum...they are two different things. Probably should have googled a bit further.

[Proxcee]

Your comparison isn't very accurate because you eating all the shrimp at a single restaurant is no where near proportional to you as 1 customer using the capacity of data on an entire network that is designed to support millions. A more accurate comparison would be you being able to eat all the food at every McDonalds in the country.

 

Also Just because data as a measurement is infinite does not mean that the rate at which it able to be transmitted is as well, in this case those limits being spectrum and backhaul. You can only pass so much information though a certain amount of spectrum and though the cables that connect the network to the internet. Therefore the amount of data that can be handled by the network is indeed finite.

 

First let me say that I wasn't trying to be proportional...so mission accomplished. My point, irregardless of semantics, was to point out that the "all you can eat buffet" example probably isnt the best analogy to use when talking about unlimited data.

 

If you can "only pass so much data through a certain amount of spectrum" as you say...please let me know what that limit is. For some reason that doesn't make much sense...maybe its just me.

 

BTW...technically there isn't a limit as to how much data can be passed through cables or through spectrum for that matter. Thats just not the case. However, I am fully aware that there may be limits as to how much data can be passed at one time before the quality of the network starts to degrade. Had to put that out there although it should go without saying.

[WiWavelength]

If you can "only pass so much data through a certain amount of spectrum" as you say...please let me know what that limit is. For some reason that doesn't make much sense...maybe its just me.

 

Yes, there is a limit to the amount of data that can be passed through a given bandwidth at a specific signal to noise ratio. That limit is often called the Shannon bound and can be calculated using the Shannon-Hartley theorem.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon–Hartley_theorem

 

As an aside, I used a PNG of the Shannon-Hartley theorem as the entry image to two of my engineering focused articles this summer.

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/entry-308-rssi-vs-rsrp-a-brief-lte-signal-strength-primer/

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/entry-318-can-toggling-airplane-mode-actually-improve-your-3g-data-speeds/

 

AJ

[koiulpoi]

Wireless spectrum (frequency used to transmit) is limited but the amount of data that can be transmitted over that meduim is not...The quality of an overloaded network is another topic. Sorry...but data is not spectrum...they are two different things. Probably should have googled a bit further.

Are you... trying to talk about "Unlimited Data" in a vacuum, unrelated to how Sprint has it? The buffet analogy works because spectrum, backhaul, carrier capacity, and a whole host of other factors effectively limit the speed at which data can be delivered, thus limiting your data. You know, like, at a buffet, if too many people are eating too much too fast, the cooks can't get enough food out for everyone, and some people sit around waiting all day, and then the restaraunt runs out of food and/or goes broke.

 

Of course, any analogy breaks down if you take it too far...

[koiulpoi]

Yes, there is a limit to the amount of data that can be passed through a given bandwidth at a specific signal to noise ratio. That limit is often called the Shannon bound and can be calculated using the Shannon-Hartley theorem.

 

http://en.wikipedia....Hartley_theorem

 

As an aside, I used a PNG of the Shannon-Hartley theorem as the entry image to two of my engineering focused articles this summer.

 

http://s4gru.com/ind...trength-primer/

http://s4gru.com/ind...3g-data-speeds/

 

AJ

I loved those articles. Write more like that, pretty please?

[dedub]

I think the point that proxcee is trying to make is;

 

If you want to compare network usage, the best analogies are either highway/road systems, or water/sewer/drain pipes and systems.

 

The amount of traffic or water that can flow through a particular period of time is limited, however both traffic and water (and data) can flow an infinite period of time (and thus an infinite amount of data) for as long as the system continues to function.

[leozno1]

First let me say that I wasn't trying to be proportional...so mission accomplished. My point, irregardless of semantics, was to point out that the "all you can eat buffet" example probably isnt the best analogy to use when talking about unlimited data.

 

BTW...technically there isn't a limit as to how much data can be passed through cables or through spectrum for that matter. Thats just not the case. However, I am fully aware that there may be limits as to how much data can be passed at one time before the quality of the network starts to degrade. Had to put that out there although it should go without saying.

 

Not being proportial would result in an unfair comparison so that may be of some importance.

 

You're looking at it from the wrong point of view. The amount of data that can be lined up to pass through cables in unlimited; like AJ said "it can be created at will" but if you look at it from the perspective of the cable it can only pass so much information at once. Its akin to trying to how you receive water at your home. There may be a vast amount of water available to you but the bottleneck to how much water you can use will always be your plumbing. The Pipes are the bottleneck just like backhaul is one of the bottlenecks of data. We can't refer to data as being unlimited in regards to Sprint's network because there is absolutely no means in the universe that I am aware of that can transmit ∞ mbps.

 

The term unlimited data means that you can use as much data as you want (within Sprints guidelines of course) and you will "NOT BE LIMITED" to the amount of speed or data that you can use at any point in your billing cycle. It does not mean that you have the power or speed to send at receive infinite amounts of data through your cell phone.

[WiWavelength]

We can't refer to data as being unlimited in regards to Sprint's network because there is absolutely no means in the universe that I am aware of that can transmit ∞ mbps.

 

4G is so passé. I am waiting for the ∞G networks.

 

 

AJ

[alphnasx]

i connect to Wi-Fi as much as possible especially at home. Courtesy to all the very loyal Sprint users here helps Sprint free up it wireless resources for other Sprint users

[koiulpoi]

The term unlimited data means that you can use as much data as you want (within Sprints guidelines of course) and you will "NOT BE LIMITED" to the amount of speed or data that you can use at any point in your billing cycle. It does not mean that you have the power or speed to send at receive infinite amounts of data through your cell phone.

Exactly. It's also only unlimited as long as you're using the network properly, and not abusing it. It's right in the terms and conditions. It's hardly unlimited in that respect. To sum it up, "unlimited does not mean unreasonable."

 

 

Prohibited Network Uses. To ensure the activities of some users do not impair the ability of our customers to have access to reliable services provided at reasonable costs, you may not use our services in a manner that is unlawful, infringes on intellectual property rights, or harms or unduly interferes with the use of Sprint's network or systems. Sprint reserves the right, without notice or limitation, to limit data throughput speeds or quantities or to deny, terminate, end, modify, disconnect, or suspend service if an individual engages in any of the prohibited voice or data uses detailed below or if Sprint, in its sole discretion, determines action is necessary to protect its wireless networks from harm or degradation

...

Examples of prohibited data uses: Sprint data services are provided solely for purposes of web surfing, sending and receiving email, photographs and other similar messaging activities, and the non-continuous streaming of videos, downloading of files or on line gaming. Our data services may not be used: (i) to generate excessive amounts of Internet traffic through the continuous, unattended streaming, downloading or uploading of videos or other files or to operate hosting services including, but not limited to, web or gaming hosting; (ii) to maintain continuous active network connections to the Internet such as through a web camera or machine-to-machine connections that do not involve active participation by a person; (iii) to disrupt email use by others using automated or manual routines, including, but not limited to "auto-responders" or cancel bots or other similar routines; (iv) to transmit or facilitate any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, telemarketing, promotional materials, "junk mail", unsolicited commercial or bulk email, or fax; (v) for activities adversely affecting the ability of other people or systems to use either Sprint's wireless services or other parties' Internet-based resources, including, but not limited to, "denial of service" (DoS) attacks against another network host or individual user; (vi) for an activity that connects any device to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for the purpose of transmitting wireless data over the network (unless customer is using a plan designated for such usage); or (vi) for any other reason that, in our sole discretion violates our policy of providing service for individual use.

Unlimited Use Plans. If you subscribe to rate plans, services or features that are described as unlimited, you should be aware that such "unlimited" plans are subject to these Sprint Prohibited Network Uses.

Emphasis mine. Straight from the Sprint Terms and Conditions.

[dedub]

unlimited as long as you're using the network properly, and not abusing it.

 

emphasis mine.

[Bob Newhart]

Data itself is effectively unlimited. It can be created at will. But the means to convey that data is limited by physics and infrastructure.

 

I liken data to driving (if gasoline were free) and wireless data networks to highways. Highways can be continually built and widened only so much. At some point, the highway department has to say, "ENOUGH!"

 

The differences is that Sprint advertises unlimited, not limited. People should be free to use the phones as they see fit until their monthly plan changes.

 

The problem with the population growth being out of control, and highway usages. The road taxes started to be pilfered off for other none road uses.

 

I hope one day the US government says enough is enough on population growth instead of encouraging irresponsible reproduction by taxing the rest of us. People need to be educated more on many subjects.

[WiWavelength]

People need to be educated more on many subjects.

 

I agree. You seem to be arguing for greater personal responsibility in reproduction but just the opposite in wireless data usage -- even though both profligate reproduction and wireless data usage can have detrimental effect on the sharing of limited resources within a society. So, yes, I think you need more education or at least more consistency.

 

AJ

[chong67]

My Comcast promo ends this month and it will go up to $72 for Blast.

 

I might just get the Performance and it is $62.

 

That is very high.

 

There is ATT DLS in my area, but the uplaod speed is only 512kb and I am not going for that. ATT is qutting DSL. They are not expanding Uverse here.

 

Is Clear going to have LTE on mobile? I am running a forum and FTP on my home PC. Will it work on mobile?

 

Where are all the competition?

Edited October 7, 2012 by chong67

[Proxcee]

 

Not being proportial would result in an unfair comparison so that may be of some importance.

 

You're looking at it from the wrong point of view. The amount of data that can be lined up to pass through cables in unlimited; like AJ said "it can be created at will" but if you look at it from the perspective of the cable it can only pass so much information at once. Its akin to trying to how you receive water at your home. There may be a vast amount of water available to you but the bottleneck to how much water you can use will always be your plumbing. The Pipes are the bottleneck just like backhaul is one of the bottlenecks of data. We can't refer to data as being unlimited in regards to Sprint's network because there is absolutely no means in the universe that I am aware of that can transmit ∞ mbps.

 

The term unlimited data means that you can use as much data as you want (within Sprints guidelines of course) and you will "NOT BE LIMITED" to the amount of speed or data that you can use at any point in your billing cycle. It does not mean that you have the power or speed to send at receive infinite amounts of data through your cell phone.

I like this perspective...

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[dontsh00tmesanta]

I don't offload then again I don't tether to replace home isp .

 

I only offload when I need a faster connection and my 3g here has been sufficient

[bigfatdude]

How about we all just turn off data completely so the select few can have another 500kbps added to their epenis length?

[WiWavelength]

How about we all just turn off data completely so the select few can have another 500kbps added to their epenis length?

 

I can easily turn that one around. How about we all just turn off data completely so that the abusers can add another 5-10 gigabytes per month to their e-penis lengths?

 

AJ

[jefbal99]

If a user has fast, reliable wifi at home or the office, I'm kind of confused as to why they would use 3G/4G. My home wifi is on my Comcast cable modem and is much faster than the 3G and Wimax in my area. Now that the ROM I use has stabilized the WiFi driver/connectivity, its all I use. Heck, I have to use Wifi for the Roku app. My wife lost the Roku remote, so our Android phones are the Roku remotes now.

 

I've used my 3G/Wimax at home during power outages and speed tests.

 

If someone doesn't have reliable WiFi or their 3G/4G is faster/more reliable than the WiFi, then use it. But use it for legit, allowed purposed (IE not tethering your PC/Game Console/Media Streamer/etc).