700 Mhz LTE on Verizon

[strung]

I picked up a Galaxy S III on Verizon since it'll be awhile before LTE comes to Minnesota. Verizon doesn't work in tin-can buildings either -- the same places where Sprint doesn't work. I guess the lesson learned is don't expect "magic" from the 700 Mhz / 800 Mhz band!

[WiWavelength]

Metal buildings are de facto Faraday cages. The frequency hardly matters -- the metal will absorb or reflect the signal.

 

AJ

[strung]

Metal buildings are de facto Faraday cages. The frequency hardly matters -- the metal will absorb or reflect the signal.

 

AJ

 

Good to know!

[S4GRU]

I've actually been a little disappointed in my LTE 700 coverage with my VZW hotspot. I was expecting equal coverage with VZW 850, and it's definitely not the case. VZW 850 extends into buildings significantly better and beyond LTE 700 edge of service. LTE 700 signals can be really fragile at edge of service conditions, similar to WiMax. Touch the device and you get dropped.

 

All in all, LTE at 700 is way better than anything at 1900 or 2500. However, it is not the panacea many may be expecting based on my three weeks of observations so far.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[WiWavelength]

Robert, what is the make and model of the VZW LTE hotspot? I will pull its authorization filing from the FCC OET to check out ERP, antenna gain, etc.

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

Robert' date=' what is the make and model of the VZW LTE hotspot? I will pull its authorization filing from the FCC OET to check out ERP, antenna gain, etc.

 

AJ[/quote']

 

It's the ZTE Jetpack 890L.

 

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but instead of checking the OET, I read the customer reviews. Several of the hotspots, people complained about the LTE signal compared to their smart phones...claiming they were weak. In the 890L, people seemed to be pleased with the signal, compared to other hotspots and smartphones.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[S4GRU]

When I'm on VZW 850 3G with the hotspot, the RSSI tracks very similarly with my GS-III on a VZW PRL. The hotspot will be slightly better in most instances if I am holding the GS-III in my hand. If I put them both down, they track about the same.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[WiWavelength]

It's the ZTE Jetpack 890L.

 

The Q78-EUFI890 aka ZTE 890L uses a good modem -- the Qualcomm MDM9600 multimode chipset. But max ERP for LTE 750 is just okay at 17.13 dBm. By comparison, max ERP for EV-DO 850 and EV-DO 1900 are 21.51 dBm and 25.53 dBm, respectively.

 

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=301190&fcc_id='Q78-EUFI890'

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

The Q78-EUFI890 aka ZTE 890L uses a good modem -- the Qualcomm MDM9600 multimode chipset. But max ERP for LTE 750 is just okay at 17.13 dBm. By comparison, max ERP for EV-DO 850 and EV-DO 1900 are 21.51 dBm and 25.53 dBm, respectively.

 

https://apps.fcc.gov..._id=Q78-EUFI890'

 

AJ

 

That explains a lot. Thanks for the info.

 

Robert

[Josh]

The Q78-EUFI890 aka ZTE 890L uses a good modem -- the Qualcomm MDM9600 multimode chipset. But max ERP for LTE 750 is just okay at 17.13 dBm. By comparison, max ERP for EV-DO 850 and EV-DO 1900 are 21.51 dBm and 25.53 dBm, respectively. https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=301190&fcc_id='Q78-EUFI890' AJ

 

How does this compare to the sprint LTE Phones? AKA, if we can compare apples to oranges, does sprint's new LTE have a good max ERP in general? Or should I say, if there is a difference, which phone is the best?

Edited July 31, 2012 by Josh

[bigsnake49]

Metal buildings are de facto Faraday cages. The frequency hardly matters -- the metal will absorb or reflect the signal.

 

AJ

 

I live in a high rise condo building (7 floors). It's cement block outside with metal framing inside. Verizon has the best signal even though it's on 1900MHz and AT&T is on 850 and they're on the same tower. Sprint is great by the front door but starts fading quickly once you get inside. T-Mobile although on the same tower as Verizon and AT&T is weaker than any of them and Sprint.

[pyroscott]

How does this compare to the sprint LTE Phones? AKA, if we can compare apples to oranges, does sprint's new LTE have a good max ERP in general? Or should I say, if there is a difference, which phone is the best?

 

The regulations on the 800 ESMR require a lower max ERP than the regulations on Cellular 850, but it isn't too terrible much different.

[strung]

I live in a stucco house (so it has stucco over that metal chicken wire), over concrete block. On Verizon 4G LTE I get 355ms, 0.56Mbps down, 0.38Mbps up.

 

On Sprint 4G I'd get 5 to 10Mbps only when putting the phone in the windows, and about 0.5 to 1 Mbps elsewhere in the house. Sprint 3G in the house I get 40 kbps to 200 kbps down.

[S4GRU]

I live in a stucco house (so it has stucco over that metal chicken wire), over concrete block. On Verizon 4G LTE I get 355ms, 0.56Mbps down, 0.38Mbps up.

 

On Sprint 4G I'd get 5 to 10Mbps only when putting the phone in the windows, and about 0.5 to 1 Mbps elsewhere in the house. Sprint 3G in the house I get 40 kbps to 200 kbps down.

 

I live in the land of stucco. I didn't know they used the stuff in Minnesota. I think the absolute worst structure to be in is an adobe with a refurbished stucco finish. If the RF can get through the chicken wire, it can't get through the mud bricks. Add some LO-E coated windows to the mix and you almost have a perfect RF shield. Many high end homes in Santa Fe cannot get a good signal, even being one block from a tower.

 

My first home when I moved to New Mexico was a partial adobe. In the wood structure part of the house, I could get Sprint EVDO at approximately -87dBm. Moved to the adobe portion (which was the side closest to the tower), and I would get either nothing or -106dBm.

 

Robert

[pyroscott]

I live in the land of stucco. I didn't know they used the stuff in Minnesota.

 

You and AJ think we all live in log houses don't you? LOL

[S4GRU]

You and AJ think we all live in log houses don't you? LOL

 

You do, don't you???

[pyroscott]

You do, don't you???

 

My house is stick framed with aluminum siding... BTW, aluminum siding is not terribly good at allowing signals through. I figure it is about 10 dbm signal loss caused by the walls. Still no stucco or adobe though...

[WiWavelength]

You and AJ think we all live in log houses don't you? LOL

 

I believe we have a picture of Scott's house. Yes, here it is...

 

 

And this, of course, is Scott's lovely wife...

 

 

 

AJ

[pyroscott]

 

I believe we have a picture of Scott's house. Yes' date=' here it is...

 

And this, of course, is Scott's lovely wife...

 

 

AJ[/quote']

 

Well, you could have told me you were coming by. I would have made sure I was home.

 

Sent from JBToro on Forum Runner

[WiWavelength]

How does this compare to the sprint LTE Phones? AKA, if we can compare apples to oranges, does sprint's new LTE have a good max ERP in general? Or should I say, if there is a difference, which phone is the best?

 

Ask and ye shall receive. I put together an ERP comparison table:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArY31Mr219-ydFA2TnFsRFFJMmlodUFodGoycE1hRXc

 

AJ

[JonnygATL]

I realize I'm in the minority, but I really can't understand that chart. Could you give a brief overview of how to read it? I'm a partial nerd...haven't graduated yet to full nerd status! LOL

[S4GRU]

 

Ask and ye shall receive. I put together an ERP comparison table:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArY31Mr219-ydFA2TnFsRFFJMmlodUFodGoycE1hRXc

 

AJ

 

The Viper has some real strong ERP's, but it was not translating into solid performance in my testing. Man, check out the TriFi Hotspot. You could cook Thanksgiving with that thing. That's some power. I wish my Verizon hotspot was more akin to that.

 

Robert via CM9 Kindle Fire using Forum Runner

[pyroscott]

Looks like Motorola will keep their reputation for strong radio performance alive with the photon q

 

Sent from JBToro on Forum Runner

[WiWavelength]

The regulations on the 800 ESMR require a lower max ERP than the regulations on Cellular 850, but it isn't too terrible much different.

 

Part 22 regulations (Cellular 850 MHz): mobile station max ERP < 7 W

Part 24 regulations (PCS 1900 MHz): mobile station max EIRP < 2 W

Part 90 regulations (SMR 800 MHz): mobile station max ERP < 100 W

Part 27 regulations (Upper 700 MHz): mobile station max ERP < 3 W

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

All other factors equal, use these baselines:

 

Subtract 7 dB from PCS 1900 MHz EIRP to compare it to Cellular 850 MHz ERP.

Subtract 8 dB from PCS 1900 MHz EIRP to compare it to Upper 700 MHz ERP.

 

AJ